Well it looks like the Colts cap management...

[Return of the Nizz]

Well, in the same season that Orlando Pace neutralized him, he made Jonathan Ogden look like trash in Baltimore in the season opener. Thankfully for Freeney, there is only one Orlando Pace.

Those guys were bigger WRs whose bodies took more of a beating than Marvin's. Who knows, Marvin could be like Darrell Green and maintain his speed for a few years. Diving on the turf to avoid big hits from DBs may pay off in the long run!

This is actually a good point. Marvin Harrison is a ******* turtle and turtles can live to be quite old if they avoid things like sharks. I'm pretty sure that Polian's next motion for the rules committee will be that WR's over 34 get to wear a hard outer shell on their back.

 

[Pat_Nasty]

First, I don't think Freeney is a future Hall of Famer. He is a pass rush specialist and teams seem to have figured out how to defend against his spin move. Not all LT tackles are strong enough to keep him at arms length, but as Orlando Pace provided the blueprint, you can neutralize that spin move by keeping him away from your body. He needs the leverage. I think the best thing for the Colts would be not to sign him to a long term deal. I hope they do because he is looking to be the highest paid defensive player of all time.

Freeney is what he is -- the best pure rush end in the league. He doesn't have the versatility of a guy like Peppers, but his ability off the edge makes him one of the very few guys in the league who can truly fill the RDE roll in Dungy's Tampa 2. That makes him very valuable... but to get that value from him, you need a 3-technique DT who can play the Warren Sapp role to Freeney's Simeon Rice.

LTs can neutralize Freeney by playing off him and let him into the backfield because they know the Colts' lack of interior pressure will enable their QB to be able to step up in the pocket. If Freeney tries to cut inside, he'll find that the lack of interior pressure will leave an interior lineman free to peel off and help the LT.

This is, IMO, the real reason behind why his negotiations w/ the Colts are frozen. Star players want three things: riches, records and a ring. The Colts helped him get the latter, and they're likely willing to give him the former... but if he wants to set any of the third, he'll have to go to team willing to build a defense that can really feature him.

 

[Dragda]

Yeah, they won and that, unfortunately, is in the history books. Forever. But they are on the downturn and some minor yet not insignificant losses will eat into that.

Don't they actually have to play a game to be already considered on the downturn?

 

[PatsFan37]

The Colts were $3.7M under the cap as of 4/13 according to John Clayton. If we can afford to spend $500K on guys like John Navarre and Rocky Boiman, I think it's reasonable to assume the Colts could have afforded to spend that much more on a starting CB.

Obviously, they should have tendered him higher. I was guessing on the actual cap figure -- all I remembered was that they were close -- and I appreciate the correction. But we also have to figure in the rookie pool and the buffer every team needs as they approach the season and the various cut-downs. Like the dinosaur in your sideview mirror, the cap may be closer than it seems.

My only point is that if they weren't close to the cap, they wouldn't have gambled with his tender.

BTW, you play well at the role of the loyal opposition. Nice posts.

 

[He Ban Me]

Harrison doesn't equal Jerry Rice. Rice is still a better WR. Look at Rice's numbers in his mid-30s. Rice's numbers dropped off significantly at age 33-34. He was still a good WR at that point, but not an elite WR. So if you want to compare Harrison to Rice, odds are Harrison's production will drop off significantly this upcoming season.

We'll see. But I guess since you say so??

 

[He Ban Me]

I always thought it was dumb for WRs other than David Boston or TO types to fight for yardage. Use moves to stay upright, sidestep, sprint whatever they can to get yards, but once a tackle is inevitable, go down.

They ain't TEs, FBs or power backs. The likelihood of those twigs getting injured trying to get two yards is too high, making it a dumb move. Fall down, get up, and catch another 10-yard pass on the next play. That's how WRs should get extra yardage.

The resident Dolphin troll believes total yardage for WRs is the only stat that matters, but I disagree. You put a smiley face after your coment but I strongly agree with you. Like you, I feel that a long career with a lot of catches is more important than a couple extra yards gained on any given play.

Don't forget the bevy of fumbles that often come along with trying to gain that extra yard (see Wayne @NE)

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

I'm sure the Colts will be able to find guys through the draft to replace their defected players. Most of the guys they lost weren't even that good to begin with. Was Harper that good? Not really. Was Jason David that good? Not really. How about Mike Doss? Mike Doss? Did he ever play? The players that the Colts may miss could be Cato June and Dominic Rhodes. However, the Colts have proven to replace starters at LB and RB through the draft. Most people thought that the Colts would have a hard time adapting to the loss of Edgerin James, yet Addai played very well and they won the superbowl. I'm not going to read too much into the current loses of the Colts because as much as I can't stand Polian, he's a damn good GM. Marlin Jackson looks like he's ready to step in as the starter and could draft a LB (Beason) with the #32 pick. The Colts are still in the easiest division in football and as long as Peyton Manning plays out his gord, they will be a force in the playoffs.

 

[coltsfan]

Freeney has struggled to be a dominant sack artist since Orlando Pace. He has had flashes, but he has not been a consistent sack artist like he was before. He had a miserable season last year.

Also, Jonathan Ogden has been living off his reputation for a while now. I don't know if dominating him is as big a deal as it was three or four years ago. There is a reason why he is contemplating retirement.

As for age and Harrison, I don't know if you can compare CBs and WR. Besides, Green is the exception to the rule. Even most CBs have big drop offs when they get older. Many of them can hide that fact by converting to free safety like Rod Woodson or Troy Vincent did. You don't see a lot of 35 year old CBs out there playing like Hall of Famers. Besides, I don't know if Green was nearly as good as he was early in his career when he was playing in his mid-30s, but he was good enough to keep playing. Jerry Rice played until he was 42, but he wasn't the same player at 35 as he was at 30.

Freeney dominated the entire '05 season besides the Orlando Pace game. Look at how he played against the Steelers in the regular season game and playoffs that year. No offense, but to say that Orlando Pace discovered the blueprint to stop Dwight and showed all others is just dumb. Pace is as physically gifted an OT that has ever played. The only blueprint he showed is it helps to be 6'6" 320lbs with amazing feet.

I agree that Freeney didn't play as well last year, but he was fighting through injuries that caused him to miss all of training camp, and forced him to leave a couple of games early and be questionable on almost every injury report. I could say that Richard Seymour had a crappy season too and conclude that he's no longer a force, but I don't believe that either.

Darrell Green was an exception, but so could Marvin Harrison when you look at his body type, work ethic, and playing style. His whole career he has been an exception.

 

[coltsfan]

Freeney is what he is -- the best pure rush end in the league. He doesn't have the versatility of a guy like Peppers, but his ability off the edge makes him one of the very few guys in the league who can truly fill the RDE roll in Dungy's Tampa 2. That makes him very valuable... but to get that value from him, you need a 3-technique DT who can play the Warren Sapp role to Freeney's Simeon Rice.

LTs can neutralize Freeney by playing off him and let him into the backfield because they know the Colts' lack of interior pressure will enable their QB to be able to step up in the pocket. If Freeney tries to cut inside, he'll find that the lack of interior pressure will leave an interior lineman free to peel off and help the LT.

This is, IMO, the real reason behind why his negotiations w/ the Colts are frozen. Star players want three things: riches, records and a ring. The Colts helped him get the latter, and they're likely willing to give him the former... but if he wants to set any of the third, he'll have to go to team willing to build a defense that can really feature him.

You make some good points, except I don't think that has anything to do with why the contract hasn't been signed. The good point that you have is that the Colts are lacking a little inside right now. In '05, Reagor and Tripplett gave us an inside prescense. Now, Booger and Brock are good players, but they need more help. Expect the Colts to add a DT on the first day of the draft likely, and the 4th round at the very latest.

 

[Rob0729]

Freeney dominated the entire '05 season besides the Orlando Pace game. Look at how he played against the Steelers in the regular season game and playoffs that year. No offense, but to say that Orlando Pace discovered the blueprint to stop Dwight and showed all others is just dumb. Pace is as physically gifted an OT that has ever played. The only blueprint he showed is it helps to be 6'6" 320lbs with amazing feet.

I agree that Freeney didn't play as well last year, but he was fighting through injuries that caused him to miss all of training camp, and forced him to leave a couple of games early and be questionable on almost every injury report. I could say that Richard Seymour had a crappy season too and conclude that he's no longer a force, but I don't believe that either.

Darrell Green was an exception, but so could Marvin Harrison when you look at his body type, work ethic, and playing style. His whole career he has been an exception.

Freeney wasn't nearly as dominant in 2005 as you make him out to be and he was definitely less dominant since playing Pace and was nowhere near as good as he was in 2004 when he was a sack machine. And if I remember correctly, Roethlisberger had a very good game against the Colts in the divisional round and the regular season game was Roethlisberger's first game back in nearly a month after screwing up his knee.

If Freeney didn't face an undrafted rookie free agent thrown into the LT spot in Cincy, he might have finished the season with 2.5 sacks.

Seymour didn't have the best year last year, but Seymour isn't about piling on the stats. DE in the 3-4 is a thankless job because many times their job is to hold blocks for others to make plays. Besides, Seymour is far more versatile than Freeney. Seymour can play the run, rush the passer, and even at times drop into coverage. And Seymour didn't have nearly as bad of a year as Freeney had last year.

 

[coltsfan]

Freeney wasn't nearly as dominant in 2005 as you make him out to be and he was definitely less dominant since playing Pace and was nowhere near as good as he was in 2004 when he was a sack machine. And if I remember correctly, Roethlisberger had a very good game against the Colts in the divisional round and the regular season game was Roethlisberger's first game back in nearly a month after screwing up his knee.

If Freeney didn't face an undrafted rookie free agent thrown into the LT spot in Cincy, he might have finished the season with 2.5 sacks.

Seymour didn't have the best year last year, but Seymour isn't about piling on the stats. DE in the 3-4 is a thankless job because many times their job is to hold blocks for others to make plays. Besides, Seymour is far more versatile than Freeney. Seymour can play the run, rush the passer, and even at times drop into coverage. And Seymour didn't have nearly as bad of a year as Freeney had last year.

Roethlisberger had a good game, but Freeney was still a terror in that game. I specifically remember a hit on Ben that caused the ball to fly up in the air and be intercepted.

The Cincy LT was Andrew Whitworth, a 2nd round pick from LSU.

I didn't see Seymour holding up blocks very well against Marcus McNeill in the Charger playoff game. Nor can I remember him having much of an impact in either game against the Colts. Ty Warren was the guy that the Colts couldn't block. As I said, I still think Richard is a great player. But I think his situation is very comparable to Freeney's in that neither played up to their potential due to injuries.

 

[Rob0729]

I'm sure the Colts will be able to find guys through the draft to replace their defected players. Most of the guys they lost weren't even that good to begin with. Was Harper that good? Not really. Was Jason David that good? Not really. How about Mike Doss? Mike Doss? Did he ever play? The players that the Colts may miss could be Cato June and Dominic Rhodes. However, the Colts have proven to replace starters at LB and RB through the draft. Most people thought that the Colts would have a hard time adapting to the loss of Edgerin James, yet Addai played very well and they won the superbowl. I'm not going to read too much into the current loses of the Colts because as much as I can't stand Polian, he's a damn good GM. Marlin Jackson looks like he's ready to step in as the starter and could draft a LB (Beason) with the #32 pick. The Colts are still in the easiest division in football and as long as Peyton Manning plays out his gord, they will be a force in the playoffs.

I thought they would have more trouble adapting to the loss of David Thornton and Larry Tripplett and they did. Losing those guys were big contributors in them having one of the worst regular season defenses in NFL history. They were just lucky that Booger McFarland was available for a trade during the season; Bob Sanders finally got healthy for the playoffs; they were able to pull together their defense; and they got to face Trent Green (why Edwards didn't pull him for a hot hand in Huard after he sucked for weeks since he was back I will never know) and quickly aging Steve McNair, a tired and depleted Patriots, and Rex Gorssman.

I felt last year's Colts were clearly worse than the 2004 version. They were the team that was on fire going into the playoffs last year. The Steelers in 2005 probably weren't the best team in the league either, but they were clicking at the right time in the playoffs. Both teams were lucky enough to have their bad games in the playoffs when the other team was playing worse.

I feel that defense is what hurt the Colts during the regular season last year and it is worse now. Polian is brilliant at pulling together an offensive team, but except for 2005 the Colts have never had even an average defense.

 

[Rob0729]

Roethlisberger had a good game, but Freeney was still a terror in that game. I specifically remember a hit on Ben that caused the ball to fly up in the air and be intercepted.

The Cincy LT was Andrew Whitworth, a 2nd round pick from LSU.

I didn't see Seymour holding up blocks very well against Marcus McNeill in the Charger playoff game. Nor can I remember him having much of an impact in either game against the Colts. Ty Warren was the guy that the Colts couldn't block. As I said, I still think Richard is a great player. But I think his situation is very comparable to Freeney's in that neither played up to their potential due to injuries.

You're right about Whitworth. It was an undrafted rookie who filled in for Willie Anderson when he went down in that game. Whitworth started the game at LT, but even still he is a converted guard. Even so, he had more sacks in that game did he did for the rest of the year.

Seymour spent most of the AFC Championship game on the sidelines. That's probably why you didn't see him make much of an impact. He injured himself and didn't return until very late in the game.

Indy rushed for 53 yards and 2.1 YPC in the regular season game so he had to have made some kind of an impact in that game.

In fact, Seymour's stats are virtually the same from 2005 or 2004. He clearly didn't have as good as good of a year this past year, but it wasn't a huge drop off like Freeney's was.

 

[pheenix11]

What annoys me is that we were so close to forever denying Pansy Manning a Superbowl ring. Because he sure as hell won't be seeing another one anytime soon.

 

[He Ban Me]

You're right about Whitworth. It was an undrafted rookie who filled in for Willie Anderson when he went down in that game. Whitworth started the game at LT, but even still he is a converted guard. Even so, he had more sacks in that game did he did for the rest of the year.

Seymour spent most of the AFC Championship game on the sidelines. That's probably why you didn't see him make much of an impact. He injured himself and didn't return until very late in the game.

Indy rushed for 53 yards and 2.1 YPC in the regular season game so he had to have made some kind of an impact in that game.

In fact, Seymour's stats are virtually the same from 2005 or 2004. He clearly didn't have as good as good of a year this past year, but it wasn't a huge drop off like Freeney's was.

BS, he was in and out from what I remember. He was injured on the Colts first offensive play, a sweep to Addai around the left end. Addai wason his way OB, but Seymour thought he'd try andget a piece, so he piled on,and tweaked his ankle. He returned shortly thereafter. Hemay not have played every down, but he WAS in and out the entire game.

 

[Rob0729]

BS, he was in and out from what I remember. He was injured on the Colts first offensive play, a sweep to Addai around the left end. Addai wason his way OB, but Seymour thought he'd try andget a piece, so he piled on,and tweaked his ankle. He returned shortly thereafter. Hemay not have played every down, but he WAS in and out the entire game.

He was out for a large chunk of the game. But either way, you admit he was injured and that he was out of the game a lot. So what's your point.

Funny, he was on his way out of bounds, but not out of bounds. Poor Joseph Addai! It is unfair that Seymour made a legal hit on Addai. Doesn't Seymour know that the NFL goes out of their way to make sure the Pats can't get physical with Colts players.

Fact of the matter is you play to the whistle. What if Addai didn't go out of bounds and cut down the field and picked up more yards. I only played high school ball, but I was taught on defense that you always try to tackle the guy with the ball until he is out of bounds or down or the whistle blew.

I know you are used to a soft Colts defense, but that is how you play football. Seymour was just doing his job. You want to make it sound like it was a cheap hit for him doing what he was supposed to do.

 

[He Ban Me]

He was out for a large chunk of the game. But either way, you admit he was injured and that he was out of the game a lot. So what's your point.

Funny, he was on his way out of bounds, but not out of bounds. Poor Joseph Addai! It is unfair that Seymour made a legal hit on Addai. Doesn't Seymour know that the NFL goes out of their way to make sure the Pats can't get physical with Colts players.

Fact of the matter is you play to the whistle. What if Addai didn't go out of bounds and cut down the field and picked up more yards. I only played high school ball, but I was taught on defense that you always try to tackle the guy with the ball until he is out of bounds or down or the whistle blew.

I know you are used to a soft Colts defense, but that is how you play football. Seymour was just doing his job. You want to make it sound like it was a cheap hit for him doing what he was supposed to do.

LOL!!! A large chunk?? NO WAY. He came back shortly therafter. You know their rotations better than I. Plus, I assume SOMEONE has a play-by-play out there?

Secondly, whose mad at the play?? I wasn't crying for Addai. He had gotten around the edge, gained 5-7 yards, and was being tackled close to and going out of bounds by 2-3 OTHER Patriots. By the time Seymour gets there, he's doing nothing more than a good Junior "McPilejump" Seau pile on. It's funny he injured himself, unnecessarily, that's all.

EDIT:

I don't even think he touched Addai. Nice "pile on" his own guy though!

 

[Boston Jay]

Everyone is STILL talking about the Colts game?

Long offseason.

Thank God the draft is soon.

 

[He Ban Me]

Everyone is STILL talking about the Colts game?

Long offseason.

Thank God the draft is soon.

I just hope the Patriots don't take all the guys the Colts want

 

[Rob0729]

LOL!!! A large chunk?? NO WAY. He came back shortly therafter. You know their rotations better than I. Plus, I assume SOMEONE has a play-by-play out there?

Secondly, whose mad at the play?? I wasn't crying for Addai. He had gotten around the edge, gained 5-7 yards, and was being tackled close to and going out of bounds by 2-3 OTHER Patriots. By the time Seymour gets there, he's doing nothing more than a good Junior "McPilejump" Seau pile on. It's funny he injured himself, unnecessarily, that's all.

EDIT:

I don't even think he touched Addai. Nice "pile on" his own guy though!

What's the difference? We can agree that he was injured and he didn't play the entire game. I remember them talking about Seymour it looked like being benched at one point. But who really cares? It was one game. Freeney was a non-factor in that game too. Big deal.

This is a thread on the Colts' cap, not how Seymour played in the AFC Championship Game. I think we have dwelt on it enough.