Well it looks like the Colts cap management...

[coltsfan]

ha ha. good point. the time to reload in the draft for losing Harper, David, June, etc was last year. Except for RBs, FBs and top ten picks, don't count on rookies to contribute.

That's what they did. See their second and third round picks.

 

[Rob0729]

Excellent post. As you said, Harper was the biggest loss from an ability standpoint and the David move may have been a mistake just b/c we could have kept him for only $450K more.

You would think David was some great player though based on all of these posts. Pat fans must not have watched closely the last two years, but it seemed to me that Brady specifically attacked David (and with a lot of success) in those games.

I don't think David is a great player, but he was a starter. You are replacing two starting CBs with only one potential starter appearing to be on the roster in a bad draft for CBs (most likely three or four CBs will be off the board when the Colts make their first pick) and next to decent CBs left on the free agent market. It is tough to replace two starting CBs, but it exponentially tougher when there will be no decent free agents or top rookie CBs to choose from.

 

[He Ban Me]

From USAToday:
Colts president Bill Polian now expects Dwight Freeney to play this season under the one-year, $9.4 million franchise tender.

"Right now, they're frozen," Polian said regarding long-term contract talks with Freeney. "We made an offer prior to free agency and the agent chose not to respond to it. There is still time to get a deal done, the deadline is July 15, so we'll just have to wait and see what happens."

http://usatoday.sandboxplus.com/2005/news/content/clubhouse_home.asp?sport=NFL&majteam=IND

Tell me when Marvin Harrison starts to break down due to age and still is one of the highest paid WRs with a lot of dead money and multiple years to go if Polian didn't over pay for him. In the next couple of years, he will still be paid like a Hall of Famer and be an average to mediocre player. You can then pay for Hall of Fame mediocrity.

Personally, I would rather have a bunch of solid players than a handful of Hall of Famers and a bunch of JAGs. I think the Colts were lucky they pulled their defense together when they did and I don't think they can expect to do that year after year.

Polian did make a cap mistake because it made it easy for the Saints to make an offer to David that the Colts couldn't match without any poison pills. Also, the Colts lost three starters on defense and one on offense and no cap to get more than veteran minimum players in to replace them or at the very least provide insurance if the rookies that Polian drafted doesn't pan out.

Dillon=Broke ****
Harrison (as in Marvin)=Jerry Rice.

Me likey.

 

[PatsFan37]

Where do you get the fact that they have resigned themselves to let him play with the tender? I still think that there's a good shot that he's re-signed before training camp.

Overpaying offensive talent? LOL. Look at some of the contracts out there this offseason, and we'll see who's overpaying. I'd much rather overpay for hall of famers than mediocrity.

Polian made a move that is biting him in the @ss now by not giving David the 2nd round tender, but that had little to do with the cap. We're talking about a difference of $450K, here which is easily affordable.

Half-a-million here, half-a-million there, pretty soon you're talking real money.

When you're 2 million under the cap, you're forced to take chances. Jason David isn't a great CB, but he has 3 years experience with the Colts defense at a position that is among the hardest to fill. This was a gamble that cost them.

 

[coltsfan]

From USAToday:
Colts president Bill Polian now expects Dwight Freeney to play this season under the one-year, $9.4 million franchise tender.

"Right now, they're frozen," Polian said regarding long-term contract talks with Freeney. "We made an offer prior to free agency and the agent chose not to respond to it. There is still time to get a deal done, the deadline is July 15, so we'll just have to wait and see what happens."

http://usatoday.sandboxplus.com/2005/news/content/clubhouse_home.asp?sport=NFL&majteam=IND

Tell me when Marvin Harrison starts to break down due to age and still is one of the highest paid WRs with a lot of dead money and multiple years to go if Polian didn't over pay for him. In the next couple of years, he will still be paid like a Hall of Famer and be an average to mediocre player. You can then pay for Hall of Fame mediocrity.

Personally, I would rather have a bunch of solid players than a handful of Hall of Famers and a bunch of JAGs. I think the Colts were lucky they pulled their defense together when they did and I don't think they can expect to do that year after year.

Polian did make a cap mistake because it made it easy for the Saints to make an offer to David that the Colts couldn't match without any poison pills. Also, the Colts lost three starters on defense and one on offense and no cap to get more than veteran minimum players in to replace them or at the very least provide insurance if the rookies that Polian drafted doesn't pan out.

I think that's just posturing on Polian's part. It is certainly no guarantee that Freeney will be re-signed by camp, and I agree that it would be a blow to the Colts' cap if he is not. But based on what's been said both by Freeney and Irsay, I am fairly confident that it will get done. The Colts will once again "overpay" to keep a future hall-of-fame talent.

As for Harrison, he hasn't yet declined in ability, so I'm not yet worried. If he starts to decline next year, then you will be right. If he starts to decline in three years, then the Colts will have been right.

As to your Hall-of-Famers versus a bunch of solid players point. Well, most of the rest of the league has rosters more like that and the Colts', and I would say that the Colts have had more success than most of the other teams in the league. The Colts could easily have multiple Superbowls now if not for the Pats!

Yep, I said that Polian may have made a mistake. We don't know yet because we don't know what Jackson, Hayden, and Jennings can do on the field. Based on what I've seen so far from Marlin, I'm not too confident in him, but we'll see.

 

[coltsfan]

I don't think David is a great player, but he was a starter. You are replacing two starting CBs with only one potential starter appearing to be on the roster in a bad draft for CBs (most likely three or four CBs will be off the board when the Colts make their first pick) and next to decent CBs left on the free agent market. It is tough to replace two starting CBs, but it exponentially tougher when there will be no decent free agents or top rookie CBs to choose from.

I agree with you that it is a risk for the Colts, but we have three (not one) high draft picks already on the roster in Jackson, Hayden, and Jennings. I'd like to have David for depth reasons and in case Jackson doesn't work out at CB, but the Colts do have three guys that they've picked in the first two rounds that were projected as CBs.

 

[Miguel]

I disagree with Miguel in this case b/c I don't think a team would have given up a 2nd round pick for David.

Gee, a forum would be rather boring if everyone agreed with everyone

 

[coltsfan]

Half-a-million here, half-a-million there, pretty soon you're talking real money.

When you're 2 million under the cap, you're forced to take chances. Jason David isn't a great CB, but he has 3 years experience with the Colts defense at a position that is among the hardest to fill. This was a gamble that cost them.

The Colts were $3.7M under the cap as of 4/13 according to John Clayton. If we can afford to spend $500K on guys like John Navarre and Rocky Boiman, I think it's reasonable to assume the Colts could have afforded to spend that much more on a starting CB.

 

[Miguel]

Wow, that's a pretty big assumption that I don't agree with.

I'm just posting my opinion.

It was a strange decision if they wanted to keep him; and if they didn't want to keep him, what was their plan?

If they did not want to keep him, why tender him at all???

 

[gomezcat]

As the Colts' GM in the mock, I'm not happy. My excel Draft board has taken a real battering and now I'm looking for a corner earlier than expected.

 

[patchick]

Yep, I said that Polian may have made a mistake. We don't know yet because we don't know what Jackson, Hayden, and Jennings can do on the field.

Fair enough. For all we gnash our teeth at Polian, I can usually follow his strategy and grudgingly admire it. I would have waved goodbye to June too, and even Harper. But the David move, minor as a it is, really looks like an obvious misstep to me.

Under normal circumstances David might seem an easily replaceable part. But this position, this year, is ugly. (Which is why the Saints paid so much for an average player to begin with!) And picking #31 with no 2nd-round pick just makes it that much uglier. You hate to go into a draft with only one premium pick and multiple real holes to fill.

 

[coltsfan]

As the Colts' GM in the mock, I'm not happy. My excel Draft board has taken a real battering and now I'm looking for a corner earlier than expected.

What does your Colts' mock look like? Maybe I can help you out! IMO, I still don't expect the Colts to draft a Round 1 CB.

 

[coltsfan]

Fair enough. For all we gnash our teeth at Polian, I can usually follow his strategy and grudgingly admire it. I would have waved goodbye to June too, and even Harper. But the David move, minor as a it is, really looks like an obvious misstep to me.

Under normal circumstances David might seem an easily replaceable part. But this position, this year, is ugly. (Which is why the Saints paid so much for an average player to begin with!) And picking #31 with no 2nd-round pick just makes it that much uglier. You hate to go into a draft with only one premium pick and multiple real holes to fill.

You go girl! Good post.

 

[gomezcat]

What does your Colts' mock look like? Maybe I can help you out! IMO, I still don't expect the Colts to draft a Round 1 CB.

I agree. I think they are more likely to go DT or OLB in the 1st. The run defence is too big a need.

 

[Rob0729]

Dillon=Broke ****
Harrison (as in Marvin)=Jerry Rice.

Me likey.

Harrison doesn't equal Jerry Rice. Rice is still a better WR. Look at Rice's numbers in his mid-30s. Rice's numbers dropped off significantly at age 33-34. He was still a good WR at that point, but not an elite WR. So if you want to compare Harrison to Rice, odds are Harrison's production will drop off significantly this upcoming season.

 

[Rob0729]

I think that's just posturing on Polian's part. It is certainly no guarantee that Freeney will be re-signed by camp, and I agree that it would be a blow to the Colts' cap if he is not. But based on what's been said both by Freeney and Irsay, I am fairly confident that it will get done. The Colts will once again "overpay" to keep a future hall-of-fame talent.

As for Harrison, he hasn't yet declined in ability, so I'm not yet worried. If he starts to decline next year, then you will be right. If he starts to decline in three years, then the Colts will have been right.

As to your Hall-of-Famers versus a bunch of solid players point. Well, most of the rest of the league has rosters more like that and the Colts', and I would say that the Colts have had more success than most of the other teams in the league. The Colts could easily have multiple Superbowls now if not for the Pats!

Yep, I said that Polian may have made a mistake. We don't know yet because we don't know what Jackson, Hayden, and Jennings can do on the field. Based on what I've seen so far from Marlin, I'm not too confident in him, but we'll see.

First, I don't think Freeney is a future Hall of Famer. He is a pass rush specialist and teams seem to have figured out how to defend against his spin move. Not all LT tackles are strong enough to keep him at arms length, but as Orlando Pace provided the blueprint, you can neutralize that spin move by keeping him away from your body. He needs the leverage. I think the best thing for the Colts would be not to sign him to a long term deal. I hope they do because he is looking to be the highest paid defensive player of all time.

As for Harrison, be careful. WRs tend to have fast drop offs in production at an older age. Look at Jerry Rice, Eric Moulds, Tim Brown, Cris Carter, Herman Moore, and others. Most of these guys have incredibly sharp drop offs in production in a year's time. They are a 1,200 yard receiver on year and 800 the next. It is going to happen to Harrison at one point and his production could change on a dime as soon as this season.

 

[coltsfan]

First, I don't think Freeney is a future Hall of Famer. He is a pass rush specialist and teams seem to have figured out how to defend against his spin move. Not all LT tackles are strong enough to keep him at arms length, but as Orlando Pace provided the blueprint, you can neutralize that spin move by keeping him away from your body. He needs the leverage. I think the best thing for the Colts would be not to sign him to a long term deal. I hope they do because he is looking to be the highest paid defensive player of all time.

As for Harrison, be careful. WRs tend to have fast drop offs in production at an older age. Look at Jerry Rice, Eric Moulds, Tim Brown, Cris Carter, Herman Moore, and others. Most of these guys have incredibly sharp drop offs in production in a year's time. They are a 1,200 yard receiver on year and 800 the next. It is going to happen to Harrison at one point and his production could change on a dime as soon as this season.

Well, in the same season that Orlando Pace neutralized him, he made Jonathan Ogden look like trash in Baltimore in the season opener. Thankfully for Freeney, there is only one Orlando Pace.

Those guys were bigger WRs whose bodies took more of a beating than Marvin's. Who knows, Marvin could be like Darrell Green and maintain his speed for a few years. Diving on the turf to avoid big hits from DBs may pay off in the long run!

 

[spacecrime]

Diving on the turf to avoid big hits from DBs may pay off in the long run!

I always thought it was dumb for WRs other than David Boston or TO types to fight for yardage. Use moves to stay upright, sidestep, sprint whatever they can to get yards, but once a tackle is inevitable, go down.

They ain't TEs, FBs or power backs. The likelihood of those twigs getting injured trying to get two yards is too high, making it a dumb move. Fall down, get up, and catch another 10-yard pass on the next play. That's how WRs should get extra yardage.

The resident Dolphin troll believes total yardage for WRs is the only stat that matters, but I disagree. You put a smiley face after your coment but I strongly agree with you. Like you, I feel that a long career with a lot of catches is more important than a couple extra yards gained on any given play.

 

[Rob0729]

Well, in the same season that Orlando Pace neutralized him, he made Jonathan Ogden look like trash in Baltimore in the season opener. Thankfully for Freeney, there is only one Orlando Pace.

Those guys were bigger WRs whose bodies took more of a beating than Marvin's. Who knows, Marvin could be like Darrell Green and maintain his speed for a few years. Diving on the turf to avoid big hits from DBs may pay off in the long run!

Freeney has struggled to be a dominant sack artist since Orlando Pace. He has had flashes, but he has not been a consistent sack artist like he was before. He had a miserable season last year.

Also, Jonathan Ogden has been living off his reputation for a while now. I don't know if dominating him is as big a deal as it was three or four years ago. There is a reason why he is contemplating retirement.

As for age and Harrison, I don't know if you can compare CBs and WR. Besides, Green is the exception to the rule. Even most CBs have big drop offs when they get older. Many of them can hide that fact by converting to free safety like Rod Woodson or Troy Vincent did. You don't see a lot of 35 year old CBs out there playing like Hall of Famers. Besides, I don't know if Green was nearly as good as he was early in his career when he was playing in his mid-30s, but he was good enough to keep playing. Jerry Rice played until he was 42, but he wasn't the same player at 35 as he was at 30.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Yup the Colts still need DT/LB first but now CB looks like a gaping hole. They'll need to score a good DB on their 3rd rounder or teams will be running all over that D as well as throwing all over that D. I'm guessing their draft will be something like #1 Harrell, #3 Hughes.