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Well it looks like the Colts cap management...

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Rob0729, Apr 19, 2007.

  1. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    may have bit them in the ass this time. From PFT:

    SAINTS MAKE A PLAY FOR DAVID

    Adam Schefter of NFL Network reports that the New Orleans Saints will sign Colts restricted free agent cornerback Jason David to an offer sheet.

    The sheet will be signed on Thursday afternoon and presented to the Colts. Indy will have until next Thursday, April 26, to match the offer.

    Schefter reports that the package is frontloaded, making it hard for the cap-heavy Colts to match (unless, say, Peyton Manning gives up some of his jack). Also, Schefter says it is expected to be the most lucrative offer sheet of the 2007 offseason.

    If the Colts don't match, they'll get the Saints' fourth-round pick. New Orleans already has two others.

    The Colts could have tendered David at a higher level to dissuade the Saints or anyone else from making an offer. If Indy doesn't match the offer, the Colts will have lost both starting cornerbacks since Super Bowl XLI. Nick Harper previously signed with the Titans. Harper started 15 regular season games in 2006, and David started in 16 of them.

    Maybe Reggie Wayne can play both ways.

    Finally, the deadline for signing restricted free agents is tomorrow, April 20.


    http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

    So they will need to damage future cap structure to keep a guy like Jason David or lose yet another starter on defense. They have only the 32nd pick in the first two rounds in a poor CB draft to begin with. They couldn't get a deal done with Freeney and have resigned themselves to let him play for the franchise tender so his situation will be a problem next year.

    Yes, Polian has done a very good job up until this point in keeping his team competitive. I wonder if his overpaying for offensive star talent will start to catch up with him. It sure looks like it is this season at least.
  2. He Ban Me

    He Ban Me Banned

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    Don't look up, the sky is falling in Indy :(
  3. danny88

    danny88 Banned

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    This is not a big deal. The cap is no big deal. They are just going to reload in the draft. All the rookies will be big time contributers. The team dynamic was not hurt at all. Injurys will not be a problem. Two of the three of there opponents will not show up in the playoffs again. Mannings postseason td to int radio of 3 - 7 is no big deal. Sanders is not injury prone. The backups are better then the starters. The colts are the best worst sb champions ever. Bulls*it calls against NE dont count. The last 6 years of failure never happened. The media has a biased againt Manning. Manning screwing up for 6 years straight had nothing to do with it. The colts are going to repeat, its all in the bag. Just as those knowledgeable colts fans :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2007
  4. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan On the Roster

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    The Colts were very fortunate to win it all last season, in retrospect. It seems that the Cap problems are dismantling the Team very rapidly. Harper, David and Doss, three starters from the seondary are going or gone. Sanders outplays his body and seems to miss two games to injury for everyone he plays. Cato June is gone from the LB crew. They lost Corey Simon and Reagor from the Defensive line, as well. All were starters.

    On Offense they seem to have lost some depth only in Rhodes and Stockley while re-signing a previous starter on the OL who is returning from a FA poor showing with another club. Harrison is great but is 36. LOT Tarik Glenn is going on 34. Sorgi never plays behind Peyton but heaven help them if he needs to do so. Ditto if Addai gets hurt. Who plays if one of the starting WRs gets hurt?

    More significantly, their Divison is gettig tougher, Jax and Tenn seem to be rising.
  5. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Expect a post from MoLewisRocks about misleading this board;) . Harrison is 34 (DOB - 8/25/1972). Glenn is 30 (DOB - 5/25/1976).
  6. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Yeah, they won and that, unfortunately, is in the history books. Forever. But they are on the downturn and some minor yet not insignificant losses will eat into that.
  7. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Well that makes Harrison 35 at the start of the season. Which is VERY old for a WR. Has it shown yet ? No. But it will. The clock hits us all.

    Here's his contract info :


    "12/8/2004: Signed a seven-year, $67 million contract. The deal included $22 million in guarantees that were paid before 2006. 2007: $4,000,000, 2008: $7,600,000, 2009: $9,000,000, 2010: $10,000,000, 2011: $11,400,000, 2012: Free Agent"

    I'd say 2007 is his last year with Indy without a re-done deal.
  8. He Ban Me

    He Ban Me Banned

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    Doss-Blew out knee, game 6, never returned, signed for a mil.IF they valued him THAT much, they would have signed him.

    Harper-injured and left game after 1 quarter versus Pats. Tried to go in SB, couldn't. If there is ONE guy I'd like to have back though, it's him.

    David-Once HARPER was gone, it WOULD have been nice to make more of an attempt to keep a starter. I guess for another $500,000 grand, the could have upped the ante to a second rounder and made it more difficult for another team to sign him.

    June-As a team, these guys finally DID put it together as a TEAM. I think it had more to do with the D-LINE changing their upfield rush on every down, AND Sanders' return. June was abysmal in many regular season games. Even the playoffs (AFCCG and SB) yielded some breakdowns (Dillon 4th down jaunt, 11 yard td, T.Jones 52 yarder).

    Reagor gone before the Donks game.

    Simon didn't play all year.

    Stokely has been a ghost since '05. Has not played many games, so last year, they did it without him.

    Rhodes would also be nice to have, but so would have Edge. I think they are effective splitting time. I think the Colts like Dorsey, but perhaps they'll take a RB with a 3rd round pick.

    All in all, regardless of how poor the D was, a starter IS a starter, I get that. Of those mentioned, Harper, David and June are the missing starters. They have guys who last year saw plenty of action that will move to those starting spots. Depth is hurt, but obviously, they will have to draft for those spots.

    What starter that the Colts lost would you want for your NEW ENGLAND team?

    Year in and year out, it's replenishing through the draft for the most part. If they stumble and pick a bust, it hurts. But Polian doesn't just wake up on draft day and say, oh ****, what do we do now? He thinks things through,knows what is on the horizon, and does what he can to plan long term. It remains to be seen how good/bad the defense is next year. IMO, they will NOT play every game like a playoff game, BUT, I don't think you'll see any 375 yard rushing days either. Once again, they'll rely on the offense to put up more points than the opponents.
  9. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #11 Jersey

    To me, this isn't really a story about cap management in matching the contract; it's pretty easy to structure a hard-to-match contract. I think the big story is tendering a valued RFA strangely low.

    By all appearances they were counting on David to take over Harper's starting job. How do you tender a starter lower than the Pats tendered Randall Gay? The FA well is dry at CB and they already had some other pressing draft needs way down at #31. I don't get it.
  10. TomBrady'sGoat

    TomBrady'sGoat Rookie

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    I can care less who Indy loses on defense. Indy didn't win a single game in the playoffs due to their defense. As long as their offense is intact they have a shot.

    That's an unfair question. NE has a great defense while the Colts don't. The only important question is which starter the Colts lost would the Colts want to have kept.

    By your theory Reche Caldwell has no value to NE because the Colts wouldn't touch him with a 10' pole.
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2007
  11. danny88

    danny88 Banned

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    Here comes the spinnnnnnnn......... If you get injured like the pats where at the end of last year in 07 you are f*cked. All the stars alligned for the colts last year. No injuries, first two playoff opponents not showing up, Pats handing the game away. The bear's handed the sb away. You know you are in deep sh*t if you win the superbowl with your qb going for 3 td's and 7 ints. Any chink will bring down that team long before the playoffs. I doubt the injury gods are going to be so nice to the colts this year.
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2007
  12. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    That's exactly it, they tendered him low maybe due to RFAs historically not moving. It's gonna bite them in the ass by either losing him or having to pay him a lot more now.
  13. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    FWIW - I have been saying for a long time that once Marvin Harrison stops being a Top 5 player at his position that he will stop being paid as a Top 5 player.
  14. He Ban Me

    He Ban Me Banned

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    NO, by MY theory, I wouldn't be screaming at you that the sky is falling if you lost Reche. He is REPLACEABLE, that's the point. If you lost your TOP TWO receivers, I wouldn't say the sky is falling, I'd say DAMN, they might actually improve at those positions. Believe me, I WANT the PATS to have Reche and Gaffney and Dillon on their team. Just as you might want us to have guys like David and June(well, maybe not June, he seems to be Brady's favorite receiver :eek:)
  15. Displaced - Fan

    Displaced - Fan Rookie

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    This may accually hurt the Pats in the way of Samuel. Another corner signing a big over priced contract. OUCH!:bricks:
  16. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    IMO, the Gay comparison is faulty. In order to get anything at all in return for Gay, the Pats had to make the $1.3 million tender. If the Pats had made the $850,000 tender, a team could sign Gay away from the Pats without giving up a draft pick. If a team was going to make a run at David, a 2nd round pick as opposed to a 4th round pick was not going to stop them.

    JMO
  17. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    Sounds like text book whining to me. The Colts are screwed because they may lose the 5'3 giant Jason David? I don't get it.

    Brace yourself, I will try to be direct and to the point.

    The Colts won get over it.

    If Peyton Manning or Tony Dungy never wins a game for the rest of their career they are still in the books as champions. Are they built for a 15 year run? Probably not, but by any objective analysis the Patriots are chasing the Colts. They have beat us the last 3 games, won a Superbowl and had a better record the last two seasons.

    We are in a bizzaro world with Ben F--- Roethlisberger (plus Cowher and Joey Porter) winning in 05 and Peyton F-- Manning (plus Dungy) winning in 06. I fully expect the Patriots to contend in 07 and hopefully they win to restore all that is good and right in the world. Until then the Colts are the champs and as long as they have #18 they are going to be in the mix.
  18. DW Toys

    DW Toys Rookie

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    Third Cousin, You are right on as usual. To answer your question about you beloved Colts, none?
    DW Toys
  19. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    In fairness, the Pats had no choice but to offer Gay the tender he did. A lower tender for David (which is what the Colts gave him) nets a 4th round pick for the Colts. A lower tender for Gay would have meant we got nothing if we lost him because he was an undrafted free agent. I think if we could get a fourth rounder with a lower tender for Gay, we might have actually given him the lower tender.
  20. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You beat me to the punch with the Gay thing. But I don't get your logic about David. If a second round pick compensation wasn't going to make a difference in another team making a run at David, the Colts were monumentally stupid for not giving him the higher tender.

    So now they are most likely going to lose him and get a fourth rounder rather than a second rounder and all they had to do to get that second rounder rather than a fourth was to tie up $500k in cap space for a few months. How was that a smart move by the Colts?

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