We ARE the #2 seed right now

[DocHoliday]

Re: As of now, are the Pats the #2 seed????

Really? I could see the Pats sweeping those 5. I think winning out with SF and Texans on the schedule is way tougher.

But of those games beating the Texans is the most important since it affects conference record. Pats might end up with the #1 seed if they beat the Texans next week, and that team goes into a little tailspin.

Maybe I'm being overly pessimistic, but I just don't think this team can beat the Giants definitely in its current form.

Our TEs are gimped again, and we're more hobbled by injuries than the last time we faced them. Maybe if we were fully healthy, we'd stand a fair chance. But even then, with no big play WR that can win a toss up downfield in a footrace, it's a crapshoot last play or two that will decide it.

At the very least, one has to assume a loss since there is little we have demonstrated to show we can beat this team.

Someone's going to point to our improved defense, but I'll agree with Dues Irae - as always in the PostSeason in recent years, it is the offense that is not holding up its end of the deal. Giving up 21 points should not be a recipe for a loss for a team with the offensive potential the Patriots usually represent.

 

[supafly]

Re: As of now, are the Pats the #2 seed????

Maybe I'm being overly pessimistic, but I just don't think this team can beat the Giants definitely in its current form.

Our TEs are gimped again, and we're more hobbled by injuries than the last time we faced them. Maybe if we were fully healthy, we'd stand a fair chance. But even then, with no big play WR that can win a toss up downfield in a footrace, it's a crapshoot last play or two that will decide it.

At the very least, one has to assume a loss since there is little we have demonstrated to show we can beat this team.

Someone's going to point to our improved defense, but I'll agree with Dues Irae - as always in the PostSeason in recent years, it is the offense that is not holding up its end of the deal. Giving up 21 points should not be a recipe for a loss for a team with the offensive potential the Patriots usually represent.

I would not be as worried about the potential to face the Giants again nearly as much as you would, and while you have some legitimate concerns about some of the weaknesses, I would think that Belichick would somehow find a way to win vs a team that has beaten him the last 3 times.

As for the offensive concerns, it seems as though the struggles occur when the options become really limited like today. It was either Welker or Hernandez, and that's it..luckily the running game bailed us out, but I am not going to count on that happening against the top tier defenses in the league. We've struggled mightily now in the running game vs both SEA and MIA (not sure about ARZ, but it obviously couldn't have been great due to only putting 18 pts on the board), so I would expect the better defenses to be able to shut that aspect down a lot and make them one dimensional again.

In the past that hasn't really been a problem, but with Gronk and Edelman out now, we really could benefit a lot by seeing someone else step up as a receiving target--whether that be Vereen, Woodhead, or even Fells (doubtful IMO). They will need top notch performances from Welker, Hernandez (like today) and also LLYOD...and they will need to get creative with more RB passes and slip screens etc to produce the 30 pts or so that we will likely need to solidify a win by leading by more than a score late into the 4th quarter. That is my personal concern regarding the limitations of the offense right now, not that I am nitpicking about their production.

Of course if Gronk comes back in the next few weeks everything will be okay heading into the playoffs, but in order to gain that bye that is so important we'll need to figure something out before then. The ability to play teams like BAL and DEN here in Foxborough would go a long way as opposed to having to play those teams in January in their house.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Re: As of now, are the Pats the #2 seed????

Maybe I'm being overly pessimistic, but I just don't think this team can beat the Giants definitely in its current form.

You are right, the offense is a little gimpy right now. We were missing a couple of starters on the OL. Gronk is out, Edelman left the Dolphins game early, and there's no clear cut receiving option outside of Hernandez and Welker. Lloyd was very quiet today. But I expect he will play better.

I also noted that our run game got stronger as the game progressed. That is a strength we will need to lean on in the playoffs. I felt that as the Pats leaned more on the run game, they were able to take control of the clock and finish out a close game decisively for the first time in a while.

I think this is what the 2012 team has that the 2007 and 2011 teams lacked - a bona fide running game. We have talent and depth at RB with Ridley, Vereen, and Woodhead. We have a lot of ways to hurt people. I'd also like to see more RB screens. Get Vereen more involved in the passing game, he's definitely a good chance of pace back for Ridley already. And he has flashed the talent that earned him a second round selection by the Pats.

Ridley is just a revelation. He gutted out some tough yards and was our workhorse on the final drive Great game by Ridley. I know it's only 71 yards but he earned every foot and inch he got against that defense.

I feel the Pats offense is just not as good when they get one dimensional, and I was really happy to see them able to make the running game work at just the right time.

As for the seeding, this may be an illusion as some point out, since the Pats do need some help to stay at #2. But if they beat Houston and get a top 2 seed, they will be in very good shape for the postseason. Honestly what we really need is not seeding, it's getting our guys healthy for the playoffs. At full strength, this Patriots team can be a terrifying offensive powerhouse.

 

[Banjo]

Re: As of now, are the Pats the #2 seed????

Screw the 2nd seed... I want #1! Best way to get there: beat Houston, root for Indy.

The Colts are CHUCKSTRONG right now! They will not lose to the Texans without a fight. Hell, with a little help from us, Indy could actually win the division! Go Colts!!

 

[Sciz]

Re: As of now, are the Pats the #2 seed????

Screw the 2nd seed... I want #1! Best way to get there: beat Houston, root for Indy.

(And whoever the Ravens are playing)

 

[resdubwhite]

Re: As of now, are the Pats the #2 seed????

winning the division does give us some weeks to heal. If we can take one from 2 of the Houston SF games (preferably Hou) then I would think winning last 2 home games albeit with a weakened team we sohlud be in a position to have no 2 seed.

That would give us the bye week and more healing time.

If we are healthy we are incredibly tough to beat.

Just mytwo cents.

 

[kennyb]

Being the #2 seed is pretty much the definition of meaningless right now.

Is Houston a difficult place to play?

 

[Bonzo]

Being the #2 seed is pretty much the definition of meaningless right now.

Is Houston a difficult place to play?

Honestly, I think that misses the point completely...

In any event, I doubt Wes Welker is jonesing to play in Houston.

 

[lillloyd]

I thought that was a great game for Batch. He definitely felt the emotion of the moment when it was over. In the end, that win could end up being the difference between going to the playoffs and getting an early vacation.

We've had bigger wins over the years, but this has to rank among my favorites all time. Batch's outpouring of emotion at the end of the game was refreshingly (stunningly?) pure--that bear hug lasted about 30 seconds lol. It's something you expect maybe out of a high school or college kid, not a 38 year-old vet playing in a professional sport that's all too easy to feel cynical about. Good for him.

Regarding the seeding, I don't know that I'd attach quite as much importance to it if I were a Pats fan, simply because you guys are battle-tested and have the playoff vet, elite QB that makes it possible for you to win anywhere. Plus, I really do feel that Baltimore--barring a dramatic schematic change on their part, where they suddenly commit to giving Ray Rice 30 touches a game (and I do believe that would change a LOT for them)--is suddenly looking very beatable at home.

But the bye would give you guys time to get healthy, which is all-important. And you could avoid any potential trip to Denver, which I think may be the biggest home-field advantage of any team in the field (due to the conditions/altitude).

Should be interesting--your HOU-NE tilt next week should be great.

 

[Off The Grid]

#1 Seed & Clearing The Table: 3 Way With Planet Hoosten & Ravens or Broncos!!

The #1 Seed & Clearing The Table: Possibilities!! -

I believe I've covered all Clearing The Table angles...but would very grateful for any Corrections.

Clearing The Table ~ Possibilities!!

NFL TieBreaking Procedures

1 ~ If we Win Out, to go 13-3, and the Ravens Win Out, we are at least #3, based purely on Record.

2 ~ If we Win Out, and the Broncos Win Out, we are at least #2, because only Planet Hoosten and the Broncos could match our 13-3 Record, and for the Broncos ~ who we've already beaten and would thus win the TieBreaker on ~ to do that, they'd have to beat the Ravens in 2 weeks, eliminating the Ravens from any chance of going 13-3.

3 ~ If we Win Out, and Planet Hoosten wins the rest of their other Games ~ thus finishing 14-2 and clinching the #1 Seed ~ and Baltimore Wins Out, thus bumping the Broncos off the 13-3 Path, then the Ravens beat us out for the #2 Seed, by virtue of Scab Referees.

4 ~ If we Win Out, and Planet Hoosten wins the rest of their other Games ~ thus finishing 14-2 and clinching the #1 Seed ~ and Denver Wins Out, thus bumping the Ravens off the 13-3 Path, then we win the #2 seed, based on Head to Head with the Broncos.

5 ~ But if we Win Out, and Planet Hoosten loses an additional Game ~ a 3rd Game ~ and the Ravens Win Out ~ thus eliminating the Broncos from consideration for the #1 Seed ~ we would score the #1 Seed: Head to Head gets thrown out, because nobody would've swept the other two or gotten swept. And we would either secure the #1 Seed by beating both Planet Hoosten's and the Ravens 10-2 Conference Records with our phenomenal 11-1 Conference Record if Planet Hoosten's 3rd Loss is to the Colts...or, if Planet Hoosten matched our phenomenal 11-1 Conference Record by losing that 3rd Game to the Vikings and sweeping the Colts in the weeks ahead...the Ravens would first get eliminated with their pathetic 10-2 Conference Record, after which we and Planet Hoosten would start over on Head to Head, which would of course make us the #1 Seedling!!

6 ~ If we Win Out, and Planet Hoosten loses an additional Game ~ a 3rd Game ~ and the Broncos Win Out ~ thus eliminating the Ravens from consideration for the #1 Seed ~ See Above. Denver would be the automatic #3 Seed, and we would beat out Planet Hoosten for the #1.

There are a myriad of 12-4 Possibilities...but I'll leave those to others!!

 

[Off The Grid]

We've had bigger wins over the years, but this has to rank among my favorites all time. Batch's outpouring of emotion at the end of the game was refreshingly (stunningly?) pure--that bear hug lasted about 30 seconds lol. It's something you expect maybe out of a high school or college kid, not a 38 year-old vet playing in a professional sport that's all too easy to feel cynical about. Good for him.

Regarding the seeding, I don't know that I'd attach quite as much importance to it if I were a Pats fan, simply because you guys are battle-tested and have the playoff vet, elite QB that makes it possible for you to win anywhere. Plus, I really do feel that Baltimore--barring a dramatic schematic change on their part, where they suddenly commit to giving Ray Rice 30 touches a game (and I do believe that would change a LOT for them)--is suddenly looking very beatable at home.

But the bye would give you guys time to get healthy, which is all-important. And you could avoid any potential trip to Denver, which I think may be the biggest home-field advantage of any team in the field (due to the conditions/altitude).

Should be interesting--your HOU-NE tilt next week should be great.

Love that Talk.

I've always been an enormous Fan of The Extraordinarily Untalented Charlie Batch, Scrapper Extraordinaire, going way back to'is Detroit Lions days...and it is very gratifying to see'm win an enormous Game for a team I've always intensely admired ~ the Steelers ~ to the benefit of my beloved ~ the New EngLand Patriots.

 

[mayoclinic]

Re: #1 Seed & Clearing The Table: 3 Way With Planet Hoosten & Ravens or Broncos!!

I'm happy to let things play out and see how we do against Houston and SF the next 2 week. Win those 2 games and then I'll think about winning out and seeding.

Regardless, I think Baltimore will be lucky to go 2-2 the rest of the way:

- RGIII in Washington. He'll give their defense fits.
- Peyton Manning.
- Eli Manning.
- On the road in Cincinnati with Andy Dalton, with the Bengals likely fighting for the #6 seed.

Heck, I would be shocked if the Ravens went 0-4 in those 4 games. Or 4-0. But the way they've been playing the past few weeks, 0-4 is the more likely option, and 2-2 seems reasonasble.

Houston has 3 out of 4 games left against the Pats and Colts, with the Colts fighting to keep the #5 seed. Indy has Tennessee and KC besides Houston. If NE beats Houston and Indy beats Tennessee, then the Texans will be 11-2 and Indy 9-4 with 3 games left. Indy winning out would give them the AFC South over the Texans.

Denver has by far the easiest schedule, with games against Oakland, Cleveland and KC in addition to the Ravens. It wouldn't surprise me to see them finish 13-3 and possibly get the #1 seed. Losses to both Houston and NE are the main thing standing in their way, and a loss to Baltimore puts them out of the running.

But mostly the Pats have to worry about Houston next week and then San Francisco. Lot of football left to be played.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Perfect scenario with Baltimore would be them going 2-2 or worse and 1 of their wins coming against Denver. That would mean if we slip up and lose one more game we'd still get the bye at 12-4.

Looking at Denver's schedule, I think Baltimore is the only team that could realistically beat them. But still Go Oakland on Thursday! You never know in a divisional road game.

 

[PYPER]

Allow me to clear things up and forgive me if someone else already did so.

Head-to-head is in fact the first tie breaker. At this point in time, however, that tie-breaker cannot be used b/c the three teams involved have not all played one another. This will change in a couple of weeks when Baltimore and Denver face off.

Therefore, right now the Patriots are slated as the #2 seed b/c after head-to-head, the conference record is used to break up 3-way ties. However, it's really kind of silly to get excited by this as there is still 1/4 of the season yet to play out. Where things look today are irrelevant to the grand scheme of things.

It kind of reminds me of an analogy BB made to the team one year about the season being like a horse race. We're entering the final stretch of the race and it doesn't really matter where we are now, all that matters is how we finish down the stretch.

All we know for sure is that we'll be one of the top 4 seeds. If we win out, we'll likely get one of the top two seeds as Baltimore has a tough schedule ahead but if we both managed to win out, they would in fact beat us out for the higher seed based on their win over us.

While I'm hopeful that we'll win out, a safer bet is that we'll probably drop one of the next two and head into week 17 with an 11-4 record. At that point, its likely that one of the top two seeds will be out of reach (Denver has an easy schedule) and we'll probably rest starters in the season finale against Miami and finish the year 11-5.

I hope this post was helpful.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Head-to-head is in fact the first tie breaker. At this point in time, however, that tie-breaker cannot be used b/c the three teams involved have not all played one another. This will change in a couple of weeks when Baltimore and Denver face off.

Therefore, right now the Patriots are slated as the #2 seed b/c after head-to-head, the conference record is used to break up 3-way ties. However, it's really kind of silly to get excited by this as there is still 1/4 of the season yet to play out. Where things look today are irrelevant to the grand scheme of things.

What happens if one of the teams played both teams they're tied with and split or of all three teams have played each other twice and split? Or say Denver beats Baltimore but we end up tied with Balt, we beat Denver and they have one more loss than us and Balt, whats the tie breaker? isnt is conf record?

 

[Sciz]

What happens if one of the teams played both teams they're tied with and split or of all three teams have played each other twice and split? Or say Denver beats Baltimore but we end up tied with Balt, we beat Denver and they have one more loss than us and Balt, whats the tie breaker? isnt is conf record?

If Denver does not have the same record as the Pats and the Ravens, then they are completely irrelevant when it comes to tiebreaker. The tiebreaker that would decide between the Pats and Ravens is head to head, which favors the Ravens.