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Ty Law: the Defense [Mod Edit for Accuracy] Still Has Major Holes In It.

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by TommyBrady12, Sep 15, 2013.

  1. TommyBrady12

    TommyBrady12 Rookie

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    Ty Law was on NFLN this morning and mentioned that the Pats defense still has major holes in it. He said that there are coverage problems and that had they played a better QB and receivers last week they would have easily lost. He even went to say that if Sanchez played the jets would have won the game. i don't know, there are a lot of people here who feel the defense was stellar - I'm not sure if I am ready to label last week's performance as that. Does Law have a point?
  2. scout

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    I think every pats fan took the last two games with a grain of salt. Playing against two rookie qb's is not a good measuring stick. However, those rookies both had the ability to run and did not, due to the defensive strategy. Each week we will see how good the defense plays. There will play a bad game and some fans will have a knee-jerk reaction. I wouldn't use a Ty Law remark as a barometer.
  3. vuudu

    vuudu Rookie

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    This is a whole new NFL to his days. Back in the day, you had QBs who were good at throwing and not at running, who were good at running and not great at throwing. Game planning for them were straight forward. Do your job and we will be alright. Now on defense, players have to react, they can't go there and just do their job. These new QBs can throw well, run well. Duel threat is the modern NFL. Yes, the defense can be better, but Ty Law's view on this is misguided imo. Look all over the NFL, defenses do well against Brady because they have over 12 years of film on the guy and he usually does not have enough weapons to throw to and he can't run to save this life.
  4. scout

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    In addition, the rules for contact have changed since Ty was a corner.
  5. Armchair Quarterback

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    Um....What?
  6. borg

    borg Rookie

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    With a +4 turn over advantage, the Pats won by 3 points. Of course he has a point. Smith went from indecisive=sacked QB in Q3 to first read/chuck it in Q4 which resulted in under thrown piks.
    I personally thought the CB/S played reasonably well and tightened up their coverage as the game progressed. I see the LB coverage though as very exploitable with Mayo and Hightower too often trailing their man and any competent QB would have exploited these mismatches.....and we are talking about the skill-challenged Jets. The NO game will be the real test for the D........Jimmy Graham/Sproles.....I fear the LBs will get exposed decisively.
  7. Wilfork#75

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    I don't think we can say either way right now how good our defense is. Obviously the results have been good but a lot of that can be attributed to two rookie QBs. I still have concerns over the pass rush and I don't think it has been overly impressive in either game. Sure we got 4 sacks against the Jets but at least 3 of the 4 were coverage/rookie QB sacks and not a dominant pass rush. I was also concerned about the run defense against the Jets and I think if they had of committed to the run they may have even won the game. But we won't really know for sure until I think week 4 when we head to Atlanta to see how this defense will go against a quality offense. I think we certainly have the pieces, its just a matter of them coming together and performing now.
  8. Sfpat

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    Of course, if the Jets had Rodgers, C. Johnson and Graham, they would have scored more points and probably win the game (then again, if Brady had Gronk, Vareen, et al the Pats probably also score more points). Unfortunately, you have to play who you gots and the Pats schemed specifically for these two dual threat QBs. I would guess that the scheme against Ryan and Brees will be different.
  9. buile

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    As much as i'm a homer, of course he has a point. The season is just started, and every team is in a race to fix their flaws, and close new holes throughout the season.

    But, the 1st and 2nd week Patriots beat the 1st and 2nd week Bills/Jets. To Law's point, maybe a mid-season Sanchez would've won... we'll never know.

    What I ~did~ like seeing was the D-Line able to turn up the pressure during key drives... more than what I remember from early-year teams the past handful of seasons. I feel it bodes well.

    As much as Talib is getting love for his interceptions, I really hope his week 3, 4+ performance doesn't look like week 2.... I think he can do it.

    Not much to say on Gregory, sure nice hits, but I'd rather see his coverage improve... Honestly, I'm not hopeful there, so I'd rather spend energy on the younger guys instead.
  10. Rob0729

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    The defense clearly doesn't suck. They have given up 24 points in two games. Even against rookie QBs, that is pretty impressive especially when 7 of the points came off a offensive turnover that gave the other team a really short field. They are are also +3 with the football after two games after giving up the ball three times on offense in the first game.

    Is there still concerns with the defense? Sure, but what team doesn't. Unfortunately none of us, including Law, know for sure really what they are and how big they are. The Pats did not play a real aggressive defense preferring to stay in nickel most of the game and only rushing four. I am sure that as the season goes along and they face better offenses, we will see this defense progress.

    In other years, this defense would have let the Bills and Jets put up over 20 points on over 400 yards on offense. This defense didn't.
  11. Get it shawtaay

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  12. PATSYLICIOUS

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    Have to agree with Ty, as long as he didn't say the defense "sucks" which I am led to believe that was the OP putting words in his mouth. IMO it's a middle of the road defense right now that clearly does have a few holes that a couple below average QB's were unable to take advantage of and will need to be better down the road if the team wants to do anything in the playoffs. But to it's credit, it has improved from previous years and has been opportunistic in the turnover department and taking advantage of those poor QB's.
  13. Fencer

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    By the numbers, you'll rarely see a better defensive performance than the Patriots had. (Well, maybe if there'd also been a couple of defensive scores ...) Of course they aren't quite as good as the box score shows.

    Most notably, Smith hit some big passes, and with more talent and all else being equal, the Jets would have hit more than they did.
  14. Bella*chick

    Bella*chick Addicted to the light

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    Don't the defenses always start slow and start to gel more mid-season-ish?

    Trouble is, the offense has started even slower this year.
  15. scout

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    Googled Ty Law and did not see anything regarding Patriots defense for this year. Keep in mind in the Jets game, our offense was pretty much 3 and out the whole game. Thus, the defense had to defend more then in past years. The consensus was the defensive strategy shifted in the fourth quarter giving the rookie more to think about. As someone mentioned, each game is going to bring different defensive schemes and strategies.
  16. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    And the emperor had no clothes. Seriously, someone had to point that the defense hasn't exactly been playing like the 85 Bears.

    The defense is a work in progress. We starting the season with the weakest starting teams (and 2 rookie quarterbacks) in quite some time. The defense played well enough to keep with the Sisters Of the Poor.

    I've watched lots of analysis of the jets game. Jets receivers were open early and often. They dropped passes. Geno threw poorly to open receivers. And Geno simply didn't see wide open receivers.

    And Wilfork and Spikes were man-handled so badly that we are sure that both were ill.

    Of course, we have played a very vanilla defense. We played the nickel with 3 rotational players (kudos to Buchanan and Vellano). The rest sat on the bench except for a couple of plays (Harmon was the minor exception with 8 reps on Thursday). There were no dime backs (certainly none against the bills) and no sophistication.

    The question is why. Wasn't this an opportunity to work together on normal defense? Certainly, experienced offenses will shred such a defense. Long gone are the defense where all the defensive played stood up until the offense set, and then got into various schemes. This old system was very, very complicated. I recall even the veteran complaining about the complexity. It was difficult for veterans (other then 1st rounders) to learn the system. And, of course, it was very, very effective.

    The test will come when we play real teams. Thankfully, that doesn't start next week. No one has started with 2 rookie quarterbacks for decades. We may get a third.
  17. SVN

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    The D did its job but hard to say it was really impressive. They are not a aggressive dominant defense which is what I at least expect after the plethora of 1st rounders they have coming into the 2nd and 3rd yr. This defense really should be outstanding with the high picks and the coaching but it is not. It will do its job but can be had. This is a below average jets offense. Lets see how geno with those avg WRs does vs baltimore or even miami pass rush . BB's scheme of rushing only 4 and waiting back to sit and force mistakes hasnt worked on these players ever since Rodney and vrabel and co left.
  18. scout

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    Why give our opponents game film of different defensive packages.
    Also, Freeman missed a game picture, have not read anything about him being injured. Though, they do play the Saints today.
  19. borg

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    Time will tell if the D is for real or not....but for now...verses these anemic offenses...it is a great time time to retrain the players and the coaches.....forcing them all to abandon the "contain" philosophy that has infiltrated the defensive strategy since '07. Unfortunately, the lack of blitzing may be a sign that the coaches aren't comfortable enough taking the training wheels off yet. Hopefully they see enough positive signs that allow a more diverse pass rush moving forward. I keep thinking back to that Ravens playoff game when Flacco went untouched and hope the Pats can become more creative in the future.
  20. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Perhaps, because a better defensive game plan might not have given the jets so many opportunities.

    The defensive players did well enough. They were out there a lot. But the schemes resembled the first pre-season game.
  21. PatsDeb

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    Poor Ty, still mad about not being able to feed his family! Seriously, the rules have changed since he played. HE would have gotten flagged for pass interference or illegal contact a bunch of times. The D played great from the standpoint of being light years ahead of where they were last year. We'll see what happens going forward. And, yeah, Sanchez would have won - he's done so well against the Pats lately, after all, as long as he can keep his face off his lineman's rear end. ;)
  22. KontradictioN

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    The defense did what they were supposed to against rookie quarterbacks. The real Litmus test will be vs. the Falcons.
  23. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Pats blitzed last week. Problem is, when they did, they didn't disguise well at all which lead to completions with solid gains over the middle.
  24. Mack Herron

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    They return the same starters as finished last year having swapped out Love for Kelly and many had what I think are unrealistic expectations of a quantum leap in performance. They spent some high picks on defensive players, but so far the rookies have not not able to break into the rotation of what has been a below average defense. Things may improve, but I cannot see any reason this defense should strike fear in the hearts of offensive coaches. Receivers once again got open behind the coverage but the QB couldn't hit them or when he did they dropped or fumbled the ball. Better QBs and WRs are down the road and the defense will need to improve to beat them. It is difficult to see where a whole lot of improvement will come from.
  25. Rob0729

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    They didn't blitz all that often. Like week one, the front's primary responsibility was contain more than pressure Smith.

    One wrinkle I did like which Matt Chatham just mentioned on WEEI was the Pats kicking Chandler Jones to DT and Buchannon to DE. They got a lot of pressure on Smith in that alignment. Three of their four sacks came in that formation. Maybe their fourth too, but I am not sure.

    I think when they start to get more aggressive, having Ninkovich, Jones, Kelly, and Buchannon as their front four can generate a lot of pressure whether they blitz or not.
  26. Rob0729

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    But a better QB especially a non-mobile one like Matt Ryan and Peyton Manning, the Pats will play them differently. With Kelly and Jones rushing from the inside, the scheme might be to get some inside pressure on these QBs. Maybe even blitz Hightower or Mayo up the middle.

    The last two weeks, the Pats weren't as concerned about pressuring the QB which gave receivers time to get open. Against, less mobile QBs, which is most of the rest of the Pats schedule, I think the Pats bring more pressure making QBs to throw faster.
  27. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I edited your thread title.

    If you can show where he said the "defense sucks", then it's fine.
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2013
  28. Mack Herron

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    I'm sure they will play them differently Rob, but our DBs have been getting beat deep and over the middle. Placing your faith on our pass rush is a dubious proposition at best. I still expect 300+ yards from Manning and probably Ryan as well.
  29. goheels22002

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    We all love Ty Law. But he's wrong.

    1st, as Bill Parcells would say, you are what your record says you are. The Pats are 2-0 and shut down the two teams on their schedule. That's all they could do.

    As for Sanchez, he's very wrong about that. If Sanchez had played, the defense would have recorded one or two touchdowns. Geno did a good job through three quarters not turning the ball over and hit the wall when the game fell on his shoulders to take over. Sanchez would have been sacked and forced into bad decisions from the opening drive.

    Last, all of you regulars know that Bill Belichick's defenses improve as the season progresses. This is the best start since 2007 for a Patriots defense.
  30. JMC00

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    If this was last year at the beginning of the season the defense would have easily given up 300 yards of passing to both Manuel and Smith.

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