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Trying to make a truce

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by cubicle_6, Sep 15, 2007.

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  1. cubicle_6

    cubicle_6 Rookie

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    Last thing I wanted was to got to war with other Patriots fans.
    But when time after time I get questioned over the very premise of me being a true fan, it's frustrating.

    Just to sum up some things for anybody who apparently hasn't followed what I've been saying.
    *Obviously I'm very angry that Belichick didn't stop using the on-field camera
    for the start of this season when the rule seemed pretty clear.
    *I'm angry that the team's legitimate accomplishments have been questioned.
    *I'm angry at the ignorant media types, even the so-called experts who don't understand that the legal 'spying' would actually be of more benefit in the game being played on a given day, thus negating the BS about "cheating" with the camera.
    *I'm angry that it's barely even mentioned that spying goes on when that is exactly the job description for advance scouts that every team employs.

    If everyone still thinks I'm not a real fan because I'm angry at the coach of the team, I guess you'll never really know the truth.

    I hope to put this episode away forever in my mind and now get back to enjoying the game of football, and most of all the New England Patriots.

    I won't be on the messageboards much come monday due to crazy work schedule, but I'll be hanging on every play like I always do on sundays.

    I'm really glad this is a home game tomorrow.
    They're gonna face crazy loud opponent's stadiums this year.
    I hope to hear a lot of noise and rabid support from the home crowd.
    ESPN is gonna get their ratings for this game.

    See ya.
  2. slash83

    slash83 Rookie

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    You mean NBC.
  3. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Rookie

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    Cheating is turning up the heat in the Boston Garden or shutting off the hot water in the lockerrooms.

    Yet no one calls Red Auerbach a cheater.
  4. richpats

    richpats Banned

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    When I actually thought about this, it really doesn't matter at all. What, people will stop saying nice things about the Pats? Who cares? All the statements are made on the field. All the questions are answered on the field.
  5. PatsSteve1

    PatsSteve1 Rookie

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    Nope. That's it. No truce. We're still going to hang you at sunrise -:) I doubt anyone is happy this happened. I'm not really angry about it. I see it more as stupdity for having the camera on the sidelines instead of putting it where it wasn't against the rules.
  6. FirstAndGoal

    FirstAndGoal Rookie

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    Some people look inside themselves to know who they are while others need the aproval of the masses. ;)
  7. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    I'm not particularly happy either...

    I won't hang the team out to dry. BB played a very crappy hand and got burned. He thought he had his loophole and his "get out of jail card free". He thought he could push it a bit and take that questionable deduction on his taxes and get away with it. He got nailed for it. He was warned several times, but he still thought that he could fall back on the vaugely worded regulation in the actual book. Like I said, he bet a really bad hand of poker.

    He should be smarter than that.

    Am I gonna sit here in judgment of him, F*ck no, I haven't earned that right. I'm not gonna sit here and let every other d-bag fan come on here and cry "cheater" either, cuz it's quite obvious that it is not a case of in-game cheating (which I would absolutely call out and be 100% NOT supportive of him).

    this is silly what going on and what's being said. As for a truce. I never considered us at war.
  8. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    I don't blame you at all for being initially angry at BB. The media was using every arrow in their quiver to influence you in that direction. Rumor, innuendo, supposition, conjecture, hyperbole, hypothesis, slander, libel, and insinuation all made an appearance. Under such an onslaught, only a corpse could have avoided being affected. Hopefully, now that your senses have regained their equanimity, you realize that we have been subjected to a massive wave of propaganda, meant to obscure the petty and trivial nature of this incident. BB remains the same human being he was prior to this media blitzkrieg: a brilliant, irascible, introverted, contradictory curmudgeon who has led our football team to 3 Super Bowl Titles. Yes, I'm angry at BB too. Angry that after last week's game he didn't tear off Mangini's head and crap down his throat at the 50 yard line.
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2007
  9. sieglo

    sieglo Rookie

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    +10000. You hit the nail on the head.
  10. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My sentiments never have I seen such a sh!t storm unleashed, no one likes a winner and no one believes in what we know. I will defend BB until proven otherwise, and really believe that he misintrepreted the rule. As time goes by, he may have been misinformed by someone else or this film was just part of the volumnous film library.

    One huge fact I cannot get by is, Matt Estrella a 4 year Pats employee, who is well known by Mangini, Daboll and some the other Jets staff and employees was filming in plain sight. I do not think this is arrogance, I think it was a genuine misinterpretation of the rules. If BB wanted to "cheat" he could have done it digitally from the stands, or some other way not from a well known pats employee using a hand held camera with a cassette. Makes no sense at all to have done this for any other reason.

    The Media are responsible for most of this, particularly those who know BB well, his methods and supposedly respect him for what he has done, whatever happened to loyalty and trust?
  11. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    Goodell should have phoned BB personally and told him to stop using illegal cameras -- i.e. a man-to-man warning. He should have followed it up with a certified letter stating the same, for legal proof of his warning, which is what this whole stupid little thing deserved. It all should have been done behind closed doors, man to man, as human beings dealing with each other to solve a problem.

    Calling in the storm troopers and letting it get to the scandal-addicted media types was the last thing rookie Goodell should have done. This was a league rule problem, not having state/federal law-breaking dog fights, for crying out loud. He screwed up in the biggest possible way, crapping all over the very league (and one of its best frachises) he is supposed to protect.

    Goodell needs to be replaced. Someday he may grow a pair, but it's not an on-the-job thing to destroy a franchise's/fans'/coach's reputation. The damage has been done. Goodell needs to go.
  12. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    I'm angry at BB for being stupid enough to not know that putting a guy on the sideline - in open view - with Pats staff clothing and a camera was not going to have severe consequences to the organization.

    It was stupid and blind and has cost this organization in several ways (not the least - a 1st rounder). BB is a genius re: football strategy and personnel building. But, like most geniuses, he has some real blindspots outside of expertise.

    I'll leave it to PonyExpress to judge me whether I am a "real" fan. There's been a flood of this going on here on this board this week.
  13. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    That about covers it for me on this subject. Better said than I would've. Good post.
  14. pepper03

    pepper03 Rookie

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    I couldn't agree more.

    I have been a Pats fan since the very early seventies, and I like many others here have lived through alot of very embarrasing and downright humiliating times-and we are still here because we are Patriots fans.

    This whole episode has been one long nightmare that I believe has been overblown, but there was no reason Belichick needed to put that camera out there-it seems pretty clear to me to do so in light of the current crackdown in the NFL on everything he should have known better, especially when they sent a memo out specifically mentioning this: but he did it anyway-and yeah I have a problem with that. His actions opened up the team I LOVE to scorn, ridicule, and a very harsh penalty of losing perhaps a player who would continue the dynasty.

    If that makes me less of a Pats fan in some people's eyes-oh well. I have never been a fan of him personally but I like his results on the field. I've lived though nice guy-loser coaches around here-I like this better.

    The over the top national over-reaction is only serving to make me even MORE of a Pats fan-nothing short of another Super Bowl win will shut these people up, and I have confidence BB and my beloved Pats will do just that.

    I just believe our coach did not serve his team well in this instance.

    I do believe our coach will make up for it by his brilliance in his field though-and I am ready to see it start tonight with a total destruction of the Super Whiners.
  15. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    If I ever implied you are not a "real" fan I sincerely apologize. Emotions must have got the better of me.
  16. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    That's OK, man. It's been a tough week for all of us. ;)
  17. pepper03

    pepper03 Rookie

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    Well that's an understatement.


    Back to a common enemy, great to be looking forward to a game again.
  18. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Let me ask this of any of you who are "angry" with BB. Do you think he is a stupid man? Do you think that if he really felt it violated NFL rules he would have put this guy in plain sight? And, would he have him in plain sight right by people who knew him and knew exactly what he was doing?

    That is why the explanation of "misinterpreting" the Commish's directive is plausible. Otherwise, I would have to think that BB is stupid. And before someone pipes up with "arrogant", I find it hard to believe that BB so arrogant that he would commit a violation in plain sight.


    Now let's beat the San Diego Super Chargers tonight! I plan to have my TV on mute.
  19. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't think anybody should call that point of view into question as "not being a real fan." Screw that.

    Belichick made a mistake. The media, and some crybaby former players, have lobbied all week to extend that mistake ad infinitum, to include all three super bowls the patriots have won. This story will look very different after a season's distance, particularly another Super Bowl season.

    An epigram from Frank Herbert's Dune Messiah has been running through my head all week:

    Here lies a toppled god--
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
    A narrow and tall one.


    The more "above" the league he became, the more he looked "larger than life," the further the fall was bound to be. How often have we seen this -- really loving to bring down the big game? Making the God human again?

    That's the source of the piling-on. That, and the excuse that seems so ready made for the likes of Hines Ward and Donovan McNabb.

    I was pissed and disappointed too. And I think the league's punishment was actually fair enough. But I also view this rush to judgement and hyperbole as total bull***. Even that, I could take, if it weren't that it includes this wave of "woulda coulda shoulda," unproveable (and un-disproveable) hypotheses that do nothing for the league, the game, or the Truth.

    They're only good as halfway-measures to salve the wounded egos of yesterday's losers.

    PFnV
  20. pepper03

    pepper03 Rookie

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    Well I absolutely do not think he is stupid-he is a brilliant man.

    I think he interpreted the rule the way he wanted to, and I think by doing so and reading it as a gray area when the league views it as black and white he made a serious error in judgement-which smart people have been known to do. I wish he had clarified what the league meant before he put that camerman out there.

    If he was more "likeable" for lack of a better word I don't think this ever would have gotten to this level, but for better or worse that's the way the world is. I think a lot of people have been looking for any ammunition to take him and the Patriots down, and I think Belichick handed it right to them.

    I also think the loss of a first round pick is excessive and nobody in their right mind could have forseen how hard the league would come down on this, because I am certain if he knew that he would have never done this.

    The more time that passes and the more foolishness I see by other teams, their fans, and the idiots in the press about this, the more sympathetic I am becoming towards our coach and the more disgusted I am becoming at the rest of the world-time to close ranks here and kick the SuperWhiners back to the West Coast.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2007
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