Tony Gonzalez and Matt Cassel

[Fencer]

One thing -- if Cassell is traded for picks, the Pats really don't have a lot of use for their non-comp later round picks. I'd like to see a deal in which Cassell plus a basket of picks goes to a rebuilding team, in return for heavy compensation in the area of high picks, perhaps mixed with desirable vets.

 

[DW Toys]

On the other hand, assuming arguendo only, getting Gonzalez would mean that the team wouldn't have to use a pick on a tight end, and that would be one more pick that could be dedicated elsewhere.

Well played sir.
DW Toys

 

[jmt57]

Going back to the original post and column that started this thread - I get the feeling of déjà vu reading these stories. I really think what is happening is that one person writes a story, a few days later another site writes a column based on that story, then another, etc., and we fans (a) think these are all separate news stories, and (b) see it repeated so many times we feel it must be true.

Check out Mike Reiss' take on an earlier Pats-Chiefs story (6th paragraph), for example:

I thought the headline of the article -- "Matt Cassel draws interest" -- could have led one to believe that other teams were declaring their interest. After reading the piece, however, it was Miller simply providing his expert opinion as to where Cassel might land in a possible trade.

 

[patchick]

I'm interested that so many here are dead-set against giving up a late 2nd to 3rd-round pick for a talented veteran who would upgrade the offense immediately, but only projects to perhaps 2 years of impact. Question to ponder: do you regret the Corey Dillon trade?

Much as I love the draft, I think we fans (and sometimes teams, too) tend to overvalue draft picks relative to proven NFL players. How confident are you that a young TE you draft in the 2nd or 3rd will deliver more to the team over 4 years than Gonzalez would over 2?

 

[DW Toys]

I think giving fair trade value for Gonzalez is an appealing move.

Problem -- we already have Watson and Thomas, so it's not so appealing unless we move one of them.

Well, if we trade Cassell AND a young TE for Gonzalez plus picks, I sure hope we'd get more than a high 2nd rounder in the pick area. But extend that deal with a high pick next year, and things get more interesting. We'd have upgraded at TE, added a pick this year, and added a pick next year, all in return for Cassell.

People giggled at me for this thought a couple weeks ago. Now there are some that have taken a second look. How does this sound? I have already mentioned this blockbuster IMO. Trade Cassel to K.C. along with Maroney and Dave Thomas, for an exchange of picks in round one (our #23 for K.C.'s first round #3 pick), their second round pick at #34 and we get LJ who wants out and is only 29 and Gonzales (96 catches and a decent CAP with three years remaining).

This way Pioli also keeps a first round pick for another OL stud.

The difference between LJ and Maroney is vision and the ability to not go down on the first hit. LJ is a cutback runner and Lord knows, Maroney would just run into the pile. We could still dump LJ for a pick if it did not work out. If we keep him he would run for at least 1,200 yards. Thomas is canon fodder but gives them a TE to make the deal more plausible.

Pioli drafted Cassel, Maroney and Thomas. He knows them well.

The #34 pick is like a first rounder only way less dollars. Use that to select at #34 either Clay Matthews who can play ILB and is a top ST player (maybe the best of all this years draft S.Cal LBs in the pros it has been stated). He is 6'3" 247 and is faster than Cushing. Or perhaps Sean Smith of Utah who is 6'1" and 215 and can play CB and S. Or ....as an impact player, Percy Harvin who could be a game breaker if we do not want off of Gator WRs.

Now what to do with the #3 pick? Now the big bonus! Swap it to Carolina for Peppers. They do not have a first round pick. They have to use the Tag for top OT Jordon Gross. Some here wanted Suggs or Dansby. They will cost as much as Peppers. It might cost us a third to but I would do the deal (we will have two third rounders).

Peppers wants out to go to a 3-4 team. Carolina can stay at #3 or milk a few added picks.

K.C. gets their QB. They move Gonzales who they wanted a third rounder for last fall and LJ wants out of town. Worse case is we trade LJ for picks. They get a young core that Pioli knows and drafted (Maroney is from that area).


Summary:
O gets TE Gonzales and RB LJ (perhaps Harvin at #34)
D gets OLB Peppers (perhaps a ILB Matthews or CB/S Smith at #34)


I would be a happy man with these pick ups.

So at the end of the day, yes I would take Gonzales, the second round #34 choice and swap our #23 first rounder for the Cheifs #3 first rounder and give up Cassel, Maroney and Thomas.

This is a good trade for each team and fair.
DW Toys

 

[patchick]

Much as I love the draft, I think we fans (and sometimes teams, too) tend to overvalue draft picks relative to proven NFL players. How confident are you that a young TE you draft in the 2nd or 3rd will deliver more to the team over 4 years than Gonzalez would over 2?

Pathetic, I'm quoting myself. Sorry. Anyway...it strikes me that the best way to gauge the expected value of a 3rd-round TE is by past experience. So:

Round 1: Daniel Graham
Round 1: Benjamin Watson
Round 3: David Thomas
Round 4: Garrett Mills

It's further worth noting that the above players were all drafted in years widely considered to have deeper talent at tight end than this year.

 

[DW Toys]

I'm interested that so many here are dead-set against giving up a late 2nd to 3rd-round pick for a talented veteran who would upgrade the offense immediately, but only projects to perhaps 2 years of impact. Question to ponder: do you regret the Corey Dillon trade?

Much as I love the draft, I think we fans (and sometimes teams, too) tend to overvalue draft picks relative to proven NFL players. How confident are you that a young TE you draft in the 2nd or 3rd will deliver more to the team over 4 years than Gonzalez would over 2?

Exactly.
By the way, how old is TB? Doesn't he take hits? I have heard some wild notions that we have enough skill players....What? Gaffney is decent but an upgrade as a pass catcher playmaker would surely be welcomed. Someone said that Gonzales would take Welkers' routes away. Where is Simon when we need him!

This sounds like the group who swore Moss would be the end of us. How old is Randy? Still pretty good?

In BB world, a rookie doesn't make the field unless you are Mayo or Mankins. A rookie TE here does ST work for awhile. Meanwhile TB has the clock ticking for another ring shot.
DW Toys

 

[bakes781]

Going back to the original post and column that started this thread - I get the feeling of déjà vu reading these stories. I really think what is happening is that one person writes a story, a few days later another site writes a column based on that story, then another, etc., and we fans (a) think these are all separate news stories, and (b) see it repeated so many times we feel it must be true.

Check out Mike Reiss' take on an earlier Pats-Chiefs story (6th paragraph), for example:

Well for the record I posted my 3 team trade scenario before any such rumor.
DW Toys may have beat me to it, but in all honesty I think mine's a little more reasonable. While I wouldn't mind having Gonzo on the Pats, I think his value is greater elsewhere like Buffalo!

 

[Holy Diver]

I thought we already had Ben Watson?......

Oh, wait.....

we need an upgrade....

Thats a no brainer, you'd Get Gonzalez in a hearbeat. Who would the opposing D key on? Its tough enough as is.

I believe teh Pats will get a 1st and a 2nd at LEAST. I believe that we will see a bidding war for Matt Cassel, and it will truly work in the Patriots favor.






Oh...and above everything else....




since we are hearing "rumors" and "insiders" talking about this, its probably NOT going to happen.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I'd prefer a tight end who knows how to block. If you want to start trading for proven NFL starters, the Pats are better off improving their ILB and secondary situations.

 

[dhamz]

I'm interested that so many here are dead-set against giving up a late 2nd to 3rd-round pick for a talented veteran who would upgrade the offense immediately, but only projects to perhaps 2 years of impact. Question to ponder: do you regret the Corey Dillon trade?

Much as I love the draft, I think we fans (and sometimes teams, too) tend to overvalue draft picks relative to proven NFL players. How confident are you that a young TE you draft in the 2nd or 3rd will deliver more to the team over 4 years than Gonzalez would over 2?

No regrets about Dillon. I don't see him and Gonzalez as an apples to apples situation.

In 2002 the Pats ranked 28th in rushing yards and 26th in YPA.
In 2003 they ranked 27th and 30th.

By contrast, the Pats passing game was 1st in yds, 1st in rating in 2007.
In 2008 with the back-up QB the numbers were 12th and 7th.

The Dillon trade solved what was clearly the biggest weakness on the team. Gonzalez main contributions come in the passing game which is by far the strongest area on the team.

Gonzalez would be fun to watch out on the field with Brady, Moss, and Welker but at the end of the day I think that he doesn't improve this team nearly as much as adding an impact LB or DB would.

 

[amazinPats]

Well played sir.
DW Toys

No, we would need to draft a tight end anyway, given that Gonzo will likely play for a couple years or so.

 

[Deus Irae]

No, we would need to draft a tight end anyway, given that Gonzo will likely play for a couple years or so.

They'd have Gonzalez, Watson and Thomas. There would be no need to draft a tight end.