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Tony Gonzalez and Matt Cassel

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by ivanvamp, Feb 4, 2009.

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  1. ivanvamp

    ivanvamp Rookie

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    From Fantasy Football, Baseball and Basketball - news, projections, rankings, draft guide - Rotoworld.com

    "Yahoo Sports' Jason Cole reports that Tony Gonzalez still wants the
    Chiefs to trade him, "barring a serious change in direction."
    Gonzalez is worried GM Scott Pioli will hire Iowa's Kirk Ferentz as
    head coach. "Yeah, I hear they’re talking to Todd Haley," Gonzo said.
    "But then there’s this coach from Iowa State, some (expletive) like
    that and I don’t want to deal with that." Gonzalez believes the Chiefs
    will have a new coach by Thursday. If the choice isn't to his liking,
    he might ask to be traded to a contender. Three teams pursued Gonzalez
    at last October's trade deadline: the Bills, Giants, and Packers.
    Green Bay had a third-round pick on the table."

    Rumors have it that KC is very interested in Cassel. The thought is
    that Cassel would fetch the Pats at least one first round pick...maybe
    more (possibly two first round picks, but I think that's a little
    high). At a minimum, Cassel would fetch a first and third rounder.
    So follow me here....

    1. KC wants Cassel.
    2. NE could use a really good TE (imagine Gonzalez with the
    Pats...wow).
    3. Gonzalez wants out of KC.
    4. The probable price for Cassel would be a 1st and 3rd round pick.
    5. The probable price for Gonzalez would be a 3rd round pick.
    6. The likely price tag for Cassel: $14 million in 2009. The actual
    price tag for Gonzalez: $4 million in 2009.
    7. The Pats have lots of cap space to take on Gonzalez.

    So why not franchise Cassel, then work out the following deal:

    Pats trade Cassel to KC for KC's 2nd round pick. Let them keep the
    first rounder (#3 overall). We keep the 3rd rounder. Just have them
    give us Gonzo and their 2nd round pick (which would be the #35
    overall...just barely into the 2nd round).

    They get their QB and keep their 1st round pick. We get a MAJOR
    upgrade at TE and a 2nd round pick in the range where Belichick
    usually does a lot of damage.

    Seems like a win/win.

    Imagine, for Matt Cassel, a 7th round pick who, until this year, had
    not started a game since high school, fetching for the Pats the #35
    pick in the 2009 draft, and Tony Gonzalez, who, the past 2 years, has
    caught 195 passes for 2230 yds and 15 TD! Use our 1st and two 2nd
    round picks to upgrade the defense (especially pass rush and
    secondary), get the best player in the league back healthy (Brady),
    and yikes.
  2. bakes781

    bakes781 Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    I think that's certainly a lot more reasonable than getting their #3rd overall AND Gonzo. I think another possibility, which I've suggested elsewhere is including a 3rd team who might want Tony. Buffalo was the one I had in mind, but certainly GB could be another.
  3. billdog3484

    billdog3484 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    why is there an obsession with Tony Gonzalez. do we really need him. wouldnt we be better suited adding defensive players. I understand he is a great Hall of Fame player, but he is getting up there in age, and plays a position where players his age usually start breaking down.
  4. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    If Cassel's value is a 1st and a 3rd.... then getting a poor man's 1st and an old tight end star isn't exactly my idea of a fair trade.

    You're setting your bar too low. It is highly likely multiple teams want Cassel and we end up having a team offer Cassel a huge deal that Cassel signs, thus giving us their two #1 picks.
  5. billdog3484

    billdog3484 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Exactly. we are talking about a potential franchise QB. A FRANCHISE QB. these types of players win teams championships. TE is a luxury position, we dont need that.
  6. j00fek

    j00fek Banned

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    we will get picks for matty c, not an over the hill TE that will retire in 2 yrs

    you use the draft picks to restock the d and pick up a TE
  7. FortressX

    FortressX Rookie

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    Stats, stats & more stats

    No.
    If you read the OPs piece he is talking like he is a shadow GM.
    I understand when a player is upset about always losing, but I don't like that he thinks he has a say who Scott picks as coach.
  8. j00fek

    j00fek Banned

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    did michel holly just say that tony g got pissed that he could not set the TE td record @ home last season?

    still dont want em
  9. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Besides, I want a dominant blocking TE. We have too many skill players for catches already, it's not a need
  10. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The thing is.... we don't actually know if we're talking about a potential franchise QB, and that's what's going to make this situation so interesting as it resolves itself. Teams are going to have to assess how much of Cassel's performance was due to going against a weak schedule, how much was due to throwing to Moss & Welker, etc..., and how much was really Matt Cassel stepping up and getting it done.

    I'd love to be a fly on the wall of the quarterback starved teams, because the conversations about Cassel are probably going to be worth the price of admission.
  11. Dagg

    Dagg Rookie

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    to old would rather have picks that will help the team for years to come. gonzo is more of a luxury not an area of need.
  12. bakes781

    bakes781 Rookie

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    They're now discussing this very idea on Dale & Holley. :singing:

    I still like my suggestion of a 3 team deal better:

    KC gets Cassel & Bills #11 pick
    Bills get Gonzo & Pats #23 pick
    Pats get the #3 overall pick​
  13. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    In one of the weakest college QB crops to enter the draft, Cassel will be in high demand. If you're a GM would you spend 60M on one of those rookie QB's?
  14. ivanvamp

    ivanvamp Rookie

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    An "over the hill" TE? His last two seasons:

    2007 - 99 rec, 1172 yds, 5 td
    2008 - 96 rec, 1058 yds, 10 td

    Yeah, that's over the hill. The guy is still an all-pro level TE. We'd still have the following picks:

    - Our first
    - Our second, the Chargers' second, and in this scenario, the Chiefs' second
    - Our third, and a compensatory 3rd for Asante Samuel

    That's six picks in the first three rounds with which we can restock the defense with quality players, at relatively low cost to the payroll. Gonzo only costs $4 million, so he's no burden. And he represents a HUGE upgrade to the offense. I like Watson, but Gonzalez is a much, much better player. How in the world do defenses cover Moss, Welker, Faulk, Gaffney, and Gonzalez if they all go out for a pass? Right now Gonzo demands double coverage. But no way teams double him, b/c then Welker or Moss are singled. For Brady, that's like taking candy from a baby.

    Plus, the window for Randy Moss isn't too big. I'd say we have plenty of draft picks to get a lot younger and better, especially on D, and this is a great way to get significantly better on offense.
  15. ivanvamp

    ivanvamp Rookie

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    He's just 32 and coming off a 95 catch, 1000+ yd, 10 td season. He's not remotely too old.
  16. j00fek

    j00fek Banned

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    the pats will NEVER pay for a #3 pick until they re do the rookie pay system
  17. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    What is great is that we should be able to get better than a #2 and Gonzalez.

    Besides, Gonzo is a bad fit for our offense, he'll cannibalize Welker's routes.
  18. ivanvamp

    ivanvamp Rookie

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    I don't know about that. Gonzalez would be matched up against a linebacker. He could take him deep down the seam easily. I think it would actually free up Moss down the sideline.

    But I hope you're right. Gonzo and the #35 pick for Cassel...if at this point last year I told you that KC would offer us that for Cassel....you'd think I was certifiably insane. Now people are saying it's way too low. Amazing.
  19. borg

    borg Rookie

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    No offense, but that is ridiculous. QBs receive premiums, so to think that Cassel + #23 = #3 is crazy. Why would BB do this? He would lose 2 potential and likely starters in order to pay a rookie $50 mill. I see the Pats getting a mid 1st (15-24), using their own 1st, and probably accepting a 2010 2nd or 3rd...because the Pats have a bounty of higher picks this year. The money they don't spend on your #3 will get used to extend a couple of Patriot players like Wilfork, Seymour, Mankins, etc.
  20. 363839

    363839 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We should take TG AND the #3.
    For those who think he's too old...he's still the best receiving tight end in the league.
    The Pats would no longer have to worry about a 14 mill cap hit so they could sign these guys, I think.
    This offense with a TE like Gonzalez would score 7 every time it took the field.
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