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Re: $169

But there is such a thing as goodwill. What goes around comes around. I think they're making a mistake here and the "its just the free market!!!!" people don't care or see it because they're not in that loop. But it'll affect them too when in the long run it affects the franchise negatively.

J D Sal
Wow, it must be great to be in the loop. Please, keep sending up updates from this loop that you're evidently the spokesman of. The rest of us will just rely on your prognistications.

And as someone in the loop, please be sure to tell us what price increase or decrease would be sufficient in your mind to provide this goodwill that you're so concerned about.
 
Re: $169

Wow, it must be great to be in the loop. Please, keep sending up updates from this loop that you're evidently the spokesman of. The rest of us will just rely on your prognistications.

And as someone in the loop, please be sure to tell us what price increase or decrease would be sufficient in your mind to provide this goodwill that you're so concerned about.
I don't know the answer to that. I'm willing to see what happens in the long run. I have my opinions, you have yours. About where ticket sales will go, who'll keep them, who won't. What the risks are.

How long you in Hong Kong for, for good? Or will you be back?

As I said, good luck to you. Enjoy your tickets for as long as you keep them.

J D Sal.
 
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I've seen people with not much money here in Buffalo pay MORE for Sabres season tickets than the total cost of the highest non-club seat at Foxboro.

Kraft knows his market. He is not taking a big risk.
 
Re: $169

So what? Have you paid for every game since 1996 and most since the mid-80's? And I have been to two Super Bowls and ten road games.

But that isn't the question. Its season tickets. There are ten games a year. How many exhibition games did you pay full price for? Just since 1996 including playoffs, we're talking close to 120 games at least. How many have you been to, ten?
10 games is a fair estimate. But why are you talking about all those games you went to like it is some sort of hardship..? No one forced you to go to them. No one twisted your arm and made you sign on the dotted line. If going to games is such a pain in the ass (like you're making it sound like it is) then don't go.
But there is such a thing as goodwill. What goes around comes around. I think they're making a mistake here and the "its just the free market!!!!" people don't care or see it because they're not in that loop. But it'll affect them too when in the long run it affects the franchise negatively.
Well, I doubt it will affect them negatively. It is not a coincidence that they raise prices after having such a great season. By the time they start sucking again (which is going to happen sooner or later), people will already be used to the new price point.
 
Re: $169

10 games is a fair estimate. But why are you talking about all those games you went to like it is some sort of hardship..? No one forced you to go to them. No one twisted your arm and made you sign on the dotted line. If going to games is such a pain in the ass (like you're making it sound like it is) then don't go.
Well, I doubt it will affect them negatively. It is not a coincidence that they raise prices after having such a great season. By the time they start sucking again (which is going to happen sooner or later), people will already be used to the new price point.
Well, it was somewhat of a hardship in 1990 I'll say that.

I'm not saying its hardship going. Obviously, I want to continue going or I wouldn't be complaining. If its too expensive, well that is life. I don't have to be happy about it. And I don't have to agree the Krafts are doing the right thing. Do they have the right to make as much damn money as they please? Sure. And so does Jeremy Jacobs. But yeah, sometimes it IS a pain in the ass buying a few $125 tickets to a 5:00 PM Friday exhibition game in which like 5 guys who make the team participate. But I DID IT ANYWAYS, that is the point. If everyone didn't put up with the hardships that go with BUYING EVERY GAME, ATTENDING EVERY GAME WHEN YOUR SICK OR WHATEVER, the Patriots wouldn't be in Boston right now. That is the whole point. There are people who have bought every game and provided revenue to the Krafts. People who sat next to them in the old stadium. And maybe there is an unlimited supply of those people. The $125 people give up? Fine, just replace 'em with the $169 people. That is great. Congrats to the Krafts.

So far, they put a great product on the field. So that is good. I mostly thank Belichick, but obviously Bob Kraft deserves major credit for hiring Belichick and letting him put his vision in place. Its worked out a lot better than his other decision of Pete Carroll/Bobby Grier. I'm glad he learned. The Krafts have had some good fortune such as hiring him, the NFL's G-3 Loan Program which allowed them to build Gillette with a no interest loan...basically a free loan....on half the cost. That was a huge financial windfall for the Krafts. Good for them.

They see the need to price out a lot of long-time fans? Okay, go for it. Its their team. And if you think its fine and dandy. Well, that is your right too.

Me? I think there is more to it than "hey, they must have studied it....and they think the market can sustain it...."

I'm not convinced that's right and I'm not convinced its still the correct thing to do even if it is right. Any effects that happen, though, will be long-term not necessarily just felt in 2008.

But hey, they got that great mall going up. Hope you enjoy that.

J D Sal
 
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Re: $169

I'm not saying its hardship going. Obviously, I want to continue going or I wouldn't be complaining. If its too expensive, well that is life. I don't have to be happy about it. And I don't have to agree the Krafts are doing the right thing. Do they have the right to make as much damn money as they please? Sure. And so does Jeremy Jacobs. But yeah, sometimes it IS a pain in the ass buying a few $125 tickets to a 5:00 PM Friday exhibition game in which like 5 guys who make the team participate. But I DID IT ANYWAYS, that is the point. If everyone didn't put up with the hardships that go with BUYING EVERY GAME, ATTENDING EVERY GAME WHEN YOUR SICK OR WHATEVER, the Patriots wouldn't be in Boston right now. That is the whole point. There are people who have bought every game and provided revenue to the Krafts. People who sat next to them in the old stadium. And maybe there is an unlimited supply of those people. The $125 people give up? Fine, just replace 'em with the $169 people. That is great. Congrats to the Krafts.
You raise good points, but I do think it is worth mentioning one thing not pointed out: Not everyone is in the $169 tier. You guys got a $44 per ticket increase... Now I don't have the old seating chart, but it seems to me that the majority of the stadium received a somewhat-more-reasonable price hike in the $10 - $20 range.

Personally, I think going to games is overrated. I know that sounds like sour grapes from someone on the waiting list, but it ain't... I am fortunate in that I have secured season tickets for this upcoming year... I'd be surprised if I end up going more than twice during the regular season... After that, I am just going to take things on a year-by-year basis, weighing cost versus benefit...
But hey, they got that great mall going up. Hope you enjoy that.
Oh, I am established as being the lone voice in the wilderness about that mall; I don't think it is going to be terribly successful. Foxborough is not a particularly convenient, easily accessable location. People will drive from all over New England to go to a football game a couple times a year, but they aren't going to drive 45 minutes to do some retail shopping.
 
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The Patriots already had the highest ticket prices in the league. They proceed to add on to that number with an average price of over $100.00 a ticket. I honestly think this is an outrage. My 3 seats go from $375 to $507 per game. Let's see, someone tell me why??? How much money do you think Kraft makes from 2 playoff games and a SB???

I know some of you will start on me, but I don't care. I have had my season tickets since the mid-70's. I went to every game rain, snow, every game. The prices relative to the economy allowed me to continue to keep my tickets even when I moved to places where I could not attend every game.

There is no one more dedicated to the Patriots team than me. I live, bleed and die Pats. The TEAM.

But I have never liked Kraft since he bought this team. Before he bought the team we used to park across the street, get there early and tailgate for hours. When it was time to leave, we knew we had to wait a while. But, right away it became clear he was not going to let an independent make money. The state troopers never let us out until the end. Bottom line move to his lot or pay the price - grief.

In addition, security went over the top and you were looked at weird if you even got into the game. My sister was visiting and I took her to a game. As we were walking down the steps, we sat down as the play was going on so as to not block the view of others. Some security guy came up and pushed her in the back and screamed at her to get moving.

Then there is this whole issue of reselling tickets. If I remember correctly, a guy that sold his tickets on EBay once -- a 25 year season ticket holder that had only missed that one game in years lost his season tickets. That was another outrage. The reason this reselling issue bothers me is that the season ticket holders support the team, but they have almost zero chance of going to a SB. When we went to the SB in 1986 every season ticket holder had an opportunity to go. Not a lousy 2000 tickets, the balance going to Kraft. An outrage.

I have a friend who has one of our star players sister working for him in Boston. I will not give names. He went to every SB this decade, doesn't have season tickets -- just has them given to him. Me, never won the lottery, and no I will not spend $10000 to go to a SB.

And as far as Kraft saving this team, that is bull. The New England market is huge, there would have been another buyer. In fact I think Parcells was interested in buying the team with a bunch of other guys. Darn I wish he had.

And what really bothers me is that when I was a kid, my father took us to football and baseball games all the time. All of us. We came from a middle class family. What middle class family can afford to spend $1000 to go to a football game. None that I know of. None. This is what really bothers me.

My $125 seat was already the most expensive in football. There is no justification for such a price increase, none. Except greed. Pure and simple.

Why will this hurt football and the team? It's pretty simple, only the wealthy will be able to attend games with their children. I became a die-hard fan because my father regularly took us. There is no experience like it. Nothing like seeing a game on TV.

Unfortunately, it is just the way of the world today. I wish we were Green Bay and the FANS owned the team.

I will be a Pats fan until I die. That will never change. But even though I can afford to pay for my tickets I am not going to. Greed is ugly. And no, I will not resell them to someone else, in this case I choose to make a statement. And I am absolutely, positively sure I am not the only one that feels this way.
 
It is a pretty outrageous price increase but one that he will get away with for the next couple of years, unfortunately. Of course, we can all see what is likely to happen when the current crop of players retire and we go into mediocrity at best. There will be the hardcore fans who will go, regardless. However, everyone remembers the TV blackouts....

He has clearly gambled on people being able to afford it and has on the potential recession not being as bad as some fear (I won't speculate on that as it is a topic for the political forum).
 
The Patriots already had the highest ticket prices in the league. They proceed to add on to that number with an average price of over $100.00 a ticket. I honestly think this is an outrage. My 3 seats go from $375 to $507 per game. Let's see, someone tell me why??? How much money do you think Kraft makes from 2 playoff games and a SB???

I know some of you will start on me, but I don't care. I have had my season tickets since the mid-70's. I went to every game rain, snow, every game. The prices relative to the economy allowed me to continue to keep my tickets even when I moved to places where I could not attend every game.

There is no one more dedicated to the Patriots team than me. I live, bleed and die Pats. The TEAM.

But I have never liked Kraft since he bought this team. Before he bought the team we used to park across the street, get there early and tailgate for hours. When it was time to leave, we knew we had to wait a while. But, right away it became clear he was not going to let an independent make money. The state troopers never let us out until the end. Bottom line move to his lot or pay the price - grief.

In addition, security went over the top and you were looked at weird if you even got into the game. My sister was visiting and I took her to a game. As we were walking down the steps, we sat down as the play was going on so as to not block the view of others. Some security guy came up and pushed her in the back and screamed at her to get moving.

Then there is this whole issue of reselling tickets. If I remember correctly, a guy that sold his tickets on EBay once -- a 25 year season ticket holder that had only missed that one game in years lost his season tickets. That was another outrage. The reason this reselling issue bothers me is that the season ticket holders support the team, but they have almost zero chance of going to a SB. When we went to the SB in 1986 every season ticket holder had an opportunity to go. Not a lousy 2000 tickets, the balance going to Kraft. An outrage.

I have a friend who has one of our star players sister working for him in Boston. I will not give names. He went to every SB this decade, doesn't have season tickets -- just has them given to him. Me, never won the lottery, and no I will not spend $10000 to go to a SB.

And as far as Kraft saving this team, that is bull. The New England market is huge, there would have been another buyer. In fact I think Parcells was interested in buying the team with a bunch of other guys. Darn I wish he had.

And what really bothers me is that when I was a kid, my father took us to football and baseball games all the time. All of us. We came from a middle class family. What middle class family can afford to spend $1000 to go to a football game. None that I know of. None. This is what really bothers me.

My $125 seat was already the most expensive in football. There is no justification for such a price increase, none. Except greed. Pure and simple.

Why will this hurt football and the team? It's pretty simple, only the wealthy will be able to attend games with their children. I became a die-hard fan because my father regularly took us. There is no experience like it. Nothing like seeing a game on TV.

Unfortunately, it is just the way of the world today. I wish we were Green Bay and the FANS owned the team.

I will be a Pats fan until I die. That will never change. But even though I can afford to pay for my tickets I am not going to. Greed is ugly. And no, I will not resell them to someone else, in this case I choose to make a statement. And I am absolutely, positively sure I am not the only one that feels this way.

Nobody stepped up in 1993 except for Robert Kraft - this team was GONE, off to St Louis. Do you see another team in LA yet?? There was no other buyer - nobody wiling to take the gamble that Mr Kraft did.

The Krafts saved professional football in New England and that is a fact.

They also cleaned up what was a pretty horrifying place to go back in the darker days. I know I would never have taken my daughter or wife back then to a game.

Please, give credit where credit is due......if you want to really see greed & the NFL - take a good look at what s going on down in Dallas with their new stadium, then come back to me.

If you feel $169 per game is too expensive for you, don't go. Sell your tickets, for face value on the Patriots website and go the games you want too, or, turn them in.
 
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It is a pretty outrageous price increase but one that he will get away with for the next couple of years, unfortunately. Of course, we can all see what is likely to happen when the current crop of players retire and we go into mediocrity at best. There will be the hardcore fans who will go, regardless. However, everyone remembers the TV blackouts....

He has clearly gambled on people being able to afford it and has on the potential recession not being as bad as some fear (I won't speculate on that as it is a topic for the political forum).

A brain is a wonderful thing to have. Yep, you have one.

A big gamble, one I think he will lose.
 
Nobody stepped up in 1993 except for Robert Kraft - this team was GONE, off to St Louis. Do you see another team in LA yet?? There was no other buyer - nobody wiling to take the gamble that Mr Kraft did.

The Krafts saved professional football in New England and that is a fact.

They also cleaned up what was a pretty horrifying place to go back in the darker days. I know I would never have taken my daughter or wife back then to a game.

Please, give credit where credit is due......if you want to really see greed & the NFL - take a good look at what s going on down in Dallas with their new stadium, then come back to me.

If you feel $169 per game is too expensive for you, don't go. Sell your tickets, for face value on the Patriots website and go the games you want too, or, turn them in.

Sorry, you are wrong. Dead wrong. There were other buyers. And don't talk money, because I can afford to pay, I choose not to. There is a difference.

I only ask you to do one thing. Think.
 
The Patriots already had the highest ticket prices in the league. They proceed to add on to that number with an average price of over $100.00 a ticket. I honestly think this is an outrage. My 3 seats go from $375 to $507 per game. Let's see, someone tell me why??? How much money do you think Kraft makes from 2 playoff games and a SB???

I know some of you will start on me, but I don't care. I have had my season tickets since the mid-70's. I went to every game rain, snow, every game. The prices relative to the economy allowed me to continue to keep my tickets even when I moved to places where I could not attend every game.

There is no one more dedicated to the Patriots team than me. I live, bleed and die Pats. The TEAM.

But I have never liked Kraft since he bought this team. Before he bought the team we used to park across the street, get there early and tailgate for hours. When it was time to leave, we knew we had to wait a while. But, right away it became clear he was not going to let an independent make money. The state troopers never let us out until the end. Bottom line move to his lot or pay the price - grief.

In addition, security went over the top and you were looked at weird if you even got into the game. My sister was visiting and I took her to a game. As we were walking down the steps, we sat down as the play was going on so as to not block the view of others. Some security guy came up and pushed her in the back and screamed at her to get moving.

Then there is this whole issue of reselling tickets. If I remember correctly, a guy that sold his tickets on EBay once -- a 25 year season ticket holder that had only missed that one game in years lost his season tickets. That was another outrage. The reason this reselling issue bothers me is that the season ticket holders support the team, but they have almost zero chance of going to a SB. When we went to the SB in 1986 every season ticket holder had an opportunity to go. Not a lousy 2000 tickets, the balance going to Kraft. An outrage.

I have a friend who has one of our star players sister working for him in Boston. I will not give names. He went to every SB this decade, doesn't have season tickets -- just has them given to him. Me, never won the lottery, and no I will not spend $10000 to go to a SB.

And as far as Kraft saving this team, that is bull. The New England market is huge, there would have been another buyer. In fact I think Parcells was interested in buying the team with a bunch of other guys. Darn I wish he had.

And what really bothers me is that when I was a kid, my father took us to football and baseball games all the time. All of us. We came from a middle class family. What middle class family can afford to spend $1000 to go to a football game. None that I know of. None. This is what really bothers me.

My $125 seat was already the most expensive in football. There is no justification for such a price increase, none. Except greed. Pure and simple.

Why will this hurt football and the team? It's pretty simple, only the wealthy will be able to attend games with their children. I became a die-hard fan because my father regularly took us. There is no experience like it. Nothing like seeing a game on TV.

Unfortunately, it is just the way of the world today. I wish we were Green Bay and the FANS owned the team.

I will be a Pats fan until I die. That will never change. But even though I can afford to pay for my tickets I am not going to. Greed is ugly. And no, I will not resell them to someone else, in this case I choose to make a statement. And I am absolutely, positively sure I am not the only one that feels this way.

Very well written.
 
Sorry, you are wrong. Dead wrong. There were other buyers. And don't talk money, because I can afford to pay, I choose not to. There is a difference.

I only ask you to do one thing. Think.

There were NO other buyers and you know it (name one please). The Krafts went against the advice of everybody, rolled the dice "overpaid for the football club, period. Bob Kraft owned the stadium and the lease that bound the club to playing there through 2000. That is why James Orthwein offered him a kings ransome to try to buy out the lease, so he could move the club to St Louis. That is a fact.

Please do not try to diminish what the guy did to keep football here in New England at a time when nobody seemed to care.

Once he bought the club, he turned the stadium experience in Foxboro into a atmosphere where you could take your family as opposed to a drunken barroom brawl type of place filled with fights, obscenity and trash.

Certainly you can choose to spend your money and attend the games or not, your choice. I happen to think $169 is not a ridiculous price to pay for the product and that is my choice.
 
There were NO other buyers and you know it (name one please). The Krafts went against the advice of everybody, rolled the dice "overpaid for the football club, period. Bob Kraft owned the stadium and the lease that bound the club to playing there through 2000. That is why James Orthwein offered him a kings ransome to try to buy out the lease, so he could move the club to St Louis. That is a fact.

Please do not try to diminish what the guy did to keep football here in New England at a time when nobody seemed to care.

Once he bought the club, he turned the stadium experience in Foxboro into a atmosphere where you could take your family as opposed to a drunken barroom brawl type of place filled with fights, obscenity and trash.

Certainly you can choose to spend your money and attend the games or not, your choice. I happen to think $169 is not a ridiculous price to pay for the product and that is my choice.

I do remember that Paul Fireman was interested in buying but once Kraft got a hold of Sullivan Stadium it was all over.
 
There were NO other buyers and you know it (name one please).

Please do not try to diminish what the guy did to keep football here in New England at a time when nobody seemed to care.

Once he bought the club, he turned the stadium experience in Foxboro into a atmosphere where you could take your family as opposed to a drunken barroom brawl type of place filled with fights, obscenity and trash.

Point one = not true.

Point two = not true.

Point three - great except they can't afford to go now.
 
Point one = not true.

Point two = not true.

Point three - great except they can't afford to go now.

Lots of folks expressed interest and they all left once they looked at the books. I do not call them buyers by any means.

Fireman pulled out long before 1993...

Parcells "group" was a joke and never made it past a kicking of the tires.

Fact is Kraft owned the stadium & the lease, nobody stepped up to buy him out - except Orthwein and that was so he could move the club to St Louis - are you for real?? Do you realize how close this franchise really was to moving???

If they cannot afford to go now - why have there been consecutive sellouts since Kraft bought the team and why is there a 50,000 wait list?

Refresh your memory here and gtell me who really saved this team....


http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/...ITIONS AND DIVESTITURES&field=des&match=exact
 
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Re: $169

I don't know the answer to that. I'm willing to see what happens in the long run. I have my opinions, you have yours. About where ticket sales will go, who'll keep them, who won't. What the risks are.

How long you in Hong Kong for, for good? Or will you be back?

As I said, good luck to you. Enjoy your tickets for as long as you keep them.

J D Sal.

No way, I'll be back! I'm probably moving to mainland China later this year and I should be moving back to the US in 2010 or so, depending on how things go here.

If you enjoy going to the games, I hope you continue to do so. That goes for everyone. Life is short and we're all going to be dead for a very long time. Enjoy what you can, I say.
 
Re: $169

No way, I'll be back! I'm probably moving to mainland China later this year and I should be moving back to the US in 2010 or so, depending on how things go here.

If you enjoy going to the games, I hope you continue to do so. That goes for everyone. Life is short and we're all going to be dead for a very long time. Enjoy what you can, I say.

Wise words as usual PJ.........life is waay to short to not stop and smell the roses along the way.

When I first started going tickets were $3.00...last year $125 and soon to be $169.

When I first started driving, Gasoline was $0.29 per gallon and now it hovers around $3.00.

When I first started drinking beer was $0.50 at Sullivan Stadium and now it's $7.00.

Big deal, I'll keep driving and keep drinking and keep going to Patriots games ( I won't drink and drive though).

Most important, I love life and my Patriots.......enjoy it while you can folks.
 
The Patriots already had the highest ticket prices in the league. They proceed to add on to that number with an average price of over $100.00 a ticket. I honestly think this is an outrage. My 3 seats go from $375 to $507 per game. Let's see, someone tell me why??? How much money do you think Kraft makes from 2 playoff games and a SB???

I know some of you will start on me, but I don't care. I have had my season tickets since the mid-70's. I went to every game rain, snow, every game. The prices relative to the economy allowed me to continue to keep my tickets even when I moved to places where I could not attend every game.

There is no one more dedicated to the Patriots team than me. I live, bleed and die Pats. The TEAM.

But I have never liked Kraft since he bought this team. Before he bought the team we used to park across the street, get there early and tailgate for hours. When it was time to leave, we knew we had to wait a while. But, right away it became clear he was not going to let an independent make money. The state troopers never let us out until the end. Bottom line move to his lot or pay the price - grief.

In addition, security went over the top and you were looked at weird if you even got into the game. My sister was visiting and I took her to a game. As we were walking down the steps, we sat down as the play was going on so as to not block the view of others. Some security guy came up and pushed her in the back and screamed at her to get moving.

Then there is this whole issue of reselling tickets. If I remember correctly, a guy that sold his tickets on EBay once -- a 25 year season ticket holder that had only missed that one game in years lost his season tickets. That was another outrage. The reason this reselling issue bothers me is that the season ticket holders support the team, but they have almost zero chance of going to a SB. When we went to the SB in 1986 every season ticket holder had an opportunity to go. Not a lousy 2000 tickets, the balance going to Kraft. An outrage.

I have a friend who has one of our star players sister working for him in Boston. I will not give names. He went to every SB this decade, doesn't have season tickets -- just has them given to him. Me, never won the lottery, and no I will not spend $10000 to go to a SB.

And as far as Kraft saving this team, that is bull. The New England market is huge, there would have been another buyer. In fact I think Parcells was interested in buying the team with a bunch of other guys. Darn I wish he had.

And what really bothers me is that when I was a kid, my father took us to football and baseball games all the time. All of us. We came from a middle class family. What middle class family can afford to spend $1000 to go to a football game. None that I know of. None. This is what really bothers me.

My $125 seat was already the most expensive in football. There is no justification for such a price increase, none. Except greed. Pure and simple.

Why will this hurt football and the team? It's pretty simple, only the wealthy will be able to attend games with their children. I became a die-hard fan because my father regularly took us. There is no experience like it. Nothing like seeing a game on TV.

Unfortunately, it is just the way of the world today. I wish we were Green Bay and the FANS owned the team.

I will be a Pats fan until I die. That will never change. But even though I can afford to pay for my tickets I am not going to. Greed is ugly. And no, I will not resell them to someone else, in this case I choose to make a statement. And I am absolutely, positively sure I am not the only one that feels this way.


I love how Joe Sports fan is once again shooting at the wrong enemy. This is just like all the simpletons going after Specter for being an Eagles Fan instead of the real reason (but not easy to comprehend for Joe Average) that he is actually doing it as a hired gun of Comcast.

Folks, the blame for the high ticket prices is not on the owners. It is on the U.S. Tax Code that coddles the fat cats!!!!!! How many of those premium ticket holders and luxury box people are NOT taking the Business Entertainment Tax Deduction?????? Wanna venture to guess? Ever wonder why there is such a huge corporate presence at these sporting events? Ever go to a golf, tennis tourney or an NFL, NBA, MLB, etc game??????

Eventually, NFL stadiums will have no outdoor seating. They will be huge concentric arenas with nothing but windowed luxury boxes surrounding the field. The U.S. tax code is what is making that happen. Why put money into R+D to make a better product when you can get a tax deduction for bribing potential clients by getting them into the big game?

Pathetic that folks are going after the team owner when he is merely the product of the source for all this. But then again, look at all the Bozos still thnking that Specter is clawing away because of his great love of the Philly Eagles. Never overestimate the intelligence of the public.
 
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