Thomas, Hughes, Gerhart, Carrington

[DW Toys]

I would prefer to select Thomas in the second round.

Everson Griffen is someone else who could be available as a choice besides Hughes.

Honestly, from watching a 2009 highlight of clips, Gerhart doesn't impress me from initial viewing. Either Stanford has a really good offensive line (those were some big holes). Or, the defenses in these clips aren't that good and aren't good individual tacklers. He looked fast, bulldozing away but, as said, how much of that was to do with the wide open spacing his offensive line created and simply poor tackling on the part of some of the defenses his team played against. I'm not adverse to New England drafting him but not as their first drafted running back, and certainly not that high. I still have an interest in either Montario Hardesty or Ben Tate.

Carrington is interesting... Like Austen Lane and Clifton Geathers.




Demaryius Thomas

Think of it this way. Gerhart=27 TDs in his senior year and there were some very good Pac 10 defenses AND they all stacked up to stop him as he was the Cardinal offense.
There are Tates and Hardestys every year. Nothing to see. Look at the clips again. Gerhart is special.
DW Toys

 

[MaineMan]

But Greene wasn't a second round pick. I get the impression that some New England fans have a desire to see Gerhart taken with one of the three second round picks. That could be a reach. It may not be. The Jets traded up to select Greene. If New England owned a third round pick, that would be a better compromise.

With that said, I question whether or not Gerhart could've a similar impact for New England as a rookie and/or second year player as Greene for the Jets. Because New York is a run first offense. Conversely, the Patriots have arguably the league's best quarterback and one of the league's best wide receivers. It's tough to be a run first team if you've a running back by committee, and your strength is passing the ball.

I feel a sense of urgency for the Patriots. It's imperative that they're successful in this year's draft. Therefore, I believe that the picks that they own for rounds one and two must produce potential starters if not first year starters. Yes, it's that important. I've reservations (more to do with whether or not the Patriots will commit to the run) about Gerhart. Can he be anymore than a change of pace running back who'll likely share carries in a tandem? On the other hand, maybe, his opportunity with New England could be better than expected with Maroney as an afterthought and the depth at running back being nothing more than interchangeable parts.





NFL Draft 2010: So Who is Toby Gerhart?

That's just it. I think BB has come to prefer the RBBC thing with its "interchangeable parts" over the classic featured "starter" and backups/CoP guys. It's been just successful enough using Maroney and aging retreads. It makes more sense for him to start replacing some of the older parts with prospects like Gerhart than to try to find the next Chris Johnson or Adrian Peterson (or Shonn Greene) and then reconfigure the whole thing around that one guy.

I mean, I think BB is "committed" to fielding a viable ground game, but he's certainly not shifting to a run-first offense. And a viable ground game with the RBBC is much more dependent on the run-blocking abilities of the O-line and TEs. That's where the "comittment" shows up. In that regard, the Crumpler signing may provide a clue.

 

[patsinthesnow]

There are Tates and Hardestys every year. Nothing to see. Look at the clips again. Gerhart is special.
DW Toys

Great sentence, I might put it as my sig with a week prior towards the draft if that's fine. The only special backs this year are Spiller, Gerhart, Mccluster. This doesn't mean their the top 3 backs, it's just you usually won't find players like these everyyear.

 

[captain stone]

How would you feel if we drafted the following with our first five picks?

WR Thomas
OLB Hughes
RB Gerhart
DE Carrington
TE ****erson

Don't like the Thomas pick. We have enough WRs with injury issues. I'd rather take the best avail. WR in the 2nd round instead.

OK with Hughes or whomever Bill considers the best avail. Pass-Rusher in the 2nd round.

Don't like the Gerhart pick. Too many other needs before a 2nd-round RB.

Really like the Carrington pick. Safer & more athletic than Odrick or Wootton.

Don't like the ****erson pick, exc. maybe in the 4th round...maybe.

 

[mgteich]

We seem to agree except that you don't like an early RB. Ok, point made.

I have listed the picks in order, with ****erson as a 4th rounder.

You are fine with a 2nd round OLB, WR and DE, adn a 4th round TE. You moved the WR to the second, replacing a RB.

So, what is your one additional need, that you would use a first on?

Don't like the Thomas pick. We have enough WRs with injury issues. I'd rather take the best avail. WR in the 2nd round instead.

OK with Hughes or whomever Bill considers the best avail. Pass-Rusher in the 2nd round.

Don't like the Gerhart pick. Too many other needs before a 2nd-round RB.

Really like the Carrington pick. Safer & more athletic than Odrick or Wootton.

Don't like the ****erson pick, exc. maybe in the 4th round...maybe.

 

[captain stone]

We seem to agree except that you don't like an early RB. Ok, point made.

I have listed the picks in order, with ****erson as a 4th rounder.

You are fine with a 2nd round OLB, WR and DE, adn a 4th round TE. You moved the WR to the second, replacing a RB.

So, what is your one additional need, that you would use a first on?

My official position - so far - calls for trading down with Arizona for one of their 3rd-rounders. With the 28th (IIRC) pick, I would take: C/G Maurkice Pouncey, Koppen's (aka The Weakest Link) replacement.

The 2nd round would then consist of:
Best Avail. WR;
Best Avail. Pass-Rusher;
DE Alex Carrington.

If I could secure a 3rd-rounder, I would hope that one of these CBs - Jerome Murphy, Owusu-Ansah, or Amari Spievey - is still available.

In the 4th round, I'd see if ILB Brandon Spikes, or Daniel Te'o-Nesheim were still available. If not, and unless I want to reach a bit for Jamar Chaney or AJ Edds, I might start looking at TEs, RBs & OTs.

Edit: A lot might depend on Carrington's rescheduled Pro Day workout on April 8th. I would esp. like to see him reduce his 10-yard split by a few tenth-seconds, if poss.

 

[furley]

That's just it. I think BB has come to prefer the RBBC thing with its "interchangeable parts" over the classic featured "starter" and backups/CoP guys. It's been just successful enough using Maroney and aging retreads. It makes more sense for him to start replacing some of the older parts with prospects like Gerhart than to try to find the next Chris Johnson or Adrian Peterson (or Shonn Greene) and then reconfigure the whole thing around that one guy.

I mean, I think BB is "committed" to fielding a viable ground game, but he's certainly not shifting to a run-first offense. And a viable ground game with the RBBC is much more dependent on the run-blocking abilities of the O-line and TEs. That's where the "comittment" shows up. In that regard, the Crumpler signing may provide a clue.

I've to imagine that both Gerhart and agent don't see him as a complimentary player. He was a Heisman Trophy Finalist.

If I'm Gerhart's agent, I want my client to be in a position to have an opportunity to prove to the league that he deserves to have his name with other draft prospects such as Mathews, Spiller and Best as running backs who figure to handle the workload as a starter. However, if Belichick and company don't see Gerhart in that same light. Then Gerhart shouldn't be selected higher than the fourth round.

 

[BKBroiler]

But Greene wasn't a second round pick. I get the impression that some New England fans have a desire to see Gerhart taken with one of the three second round picks. That could be a reach. It may not be. The Jets traded up to select Greene. If New England owned a third round pick, that would be a better compromise.

I'll preface this by saying that I'm a big fan of Gerhart's, but I am still not sold that RB is such a problem for the Pats that it needs to be addressed with one of the first four picks.

Greene might not have been worth a second round pick to some teams, but the Jets had to view him as a first or second round talent that dropped seeing as though they traded up to the 1st pick of the 3rd round to grab him. I'm pretty sure that most teams in the league share this train of thought and would be eager to trade up to grab a player that they think fell too far. So all that you would need is one team to view Gerhart as a steal similarly to Greene for the same situation to happen.

So this all boils down to how BB and the front office value Gerhart and not what us fans and experts think (although its fun to speculate). If the Patriots view Gerhart as a first or second round talent, then they should take him in one of those two rounds. If they have him graded out lower, then they shouldn't take him in the 2nd. Trading back into the 3rd round to select him where some analysts and fans think he should go so that he's not considered a reach only introduces the opportunity to miss out on a player that they may like.

Remember last year that Vollmer was considered a huge reach in the 2nd, but the Pats must have given him at least a 2nd round grade to take him there (based on the team's normal strategy of trading back if the player they want was off the board). If they instead tried to take Vollmer a few rounds later to please experts and fans, then we may have been sitting here today talking about which tackles they should be targeting this year and using Rogain to replace all the hair we'd have pulled out from watching Kaczur be a human turnstile as the starting RT.

 

[MaineMan]

My official position - so far - calls for trading down with Arizona for one of their 3rd-rounders. With the 28th (IIRC) pick, I would take: C/G Maurkice Pouncey, Koppen's (aka The Weakest Link) replacement.

The 2nd round would then consist of:
Best Avail. WR;
Best Avail. Pass-Rusher;
DE Alex Carrington.

If I could secure a 3rd-rounder, I would hope that one of these CBs - Jerome Murphy, Owusu-Ansah, or Amari Spievey - is still available.

In the 4th round, I'd see if ILB Brandon Spikes, or Daniel Te'o-Nesheim were still available. If not, and unless I want to reach a bit for Jamar Chaney or AJ Edds, I might start looking at TEs, RBs & OTs.

Edit: A lot might depend on Carrington's rescheduled Pro Day workout on April 8th. I would esp. like to see him reduce his 10-yard split by a few tenth-seconds, if poss.

Chaney won't be a "reach" as a 4th-rounder by Draft Day. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see Al Davis snatch him up in the 2nd And then ruin him.

 

[captain stone]

Chaney won't be a "reach" as a 4th-rounder by Draft Day. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see Al Davis snatch him up in the 2nd And then ruin him.

I'd feel sorry for the kid if that happens.