This teams biggest problem- O'Brien

[woodheadwow]

The Patriots arent that talented at the RB position. You havent seen the 3rd and 5 draw play called much this season because Kevin Faulk is on IR. He was the guy getting the draw plays called for him on 3rd and 4/5. And I think we have seen a few draw plays go to Woodhead, just not as much as in the past. This is not a play calling issue, this is a personnel issue.

First of all, I don't believe that Faulk at this stage of his career is a better running back than Woodhead. Second, draw is not the only run that works on 3rd down, and 3rd and 5 is not the only situation I'm referring to. Again, the Patriots just about NEVER run the ball on 3rd down, even 3rd and 2. Lack of talent at the running back position (which to a certain extent I agree with you, btw) is not a justification for NEVER running the ball on 3rd down. And now you will say that they have run the ball on 3rd down, but I would counter that it's rare and when it happens, it's draw. They literally NEVER, as in 0 times, attempt dive on 3rd down. This is stupid, plain and simple, even if we are not that talented.

The Patriots ran the spread probably more with Weiss than they are with BOB now.

True, but it actually used to work back then. Now it doesn't.

This year the Patriots have utilized Hernandez, Gronk and Crumpler and have had more sets with 2 and sometimes 3 TEs. Last year without TEs the Pats ran only 2 and 3 sets every game. This year the Pats have mixed it up showing more sets and looks each game. The Patriots whole philosophy is more emphasized on the pass, more than the run. Their team is built off of Brady and having WRs and TEs who can catch the ball. The Patriots are not a smash mouth football team, and I think you are thinking/wanting them to be.

Again, they run way too much spread and they run it at the wrong times (when they are behind or when the game is close). They may not be a smashmouth team (on offense), but they are also not an effective spread team (and that's my point).

Okay, about low and high risk plays after long drives...doesnt make much sense. You yourself even said BOB doesnt call creative plays, and that is most of your high risk plays, so the Pats dont really ever run high risk plays.

I never said he wasn't creative. However, when the defense is gassed, that is not the time to call high risk plays, creative or not.

The Patriots dont have a solid running game so when they run the ball twice and only gain 2 yards each play that sets up 3rd and 6, which isnt really what you want as an offense. I think you are looking too much into this issue. Like today, after the Browns were up 10-0 and the defense was on the field a good amount of time. Run, short pass, short pass. 3 and out. Those are "low risk" plays but still resulted in the same amount of time on the sidelines for the defense if the Pats ran a reverse, deep bomb and a double reverse. The whole issue is the Patriots dont have a consistent running game so it is tough to really run the ball

Here is the thing, we don't really know that we don't have an effective running game, because our OC in general doesn't attempt to run the ball enough to be able to make that determination. Personally, I think the running game is a lot better than most people seem to to think. Again, Woodhead is averaging 5 yds a pop.

 

[woodheadwow]

Yeah, but he is not an every down back in the NFL. He couldnt last more than 2 weeks in the NFL being an every down back getting 20+ carries. He is way too small. He is a very good 3rd down/change up back, but definitely does not have the body to be an every down back

My take on the situation is that Woodhead is our best running back so he needs to be the starter and get most of the snaps. BJGE seems to be at his best when the team has a lead, and NOT in short yardage situations, so I think we should use him that way. The truth is we don't know how much punishment Woodhead can handle because he's never been used in that capacity.

WW

 

[The Dynasty]

First of all, I don't believe that Faulk at this stage of his career is a better running back than Woodhead. Second, draw is not the only run that works on 3rd down, and 3rd and 5 is not the only situation I'm referring to. Again, the Patriots just about NEVER run the ball on 3rd down, even 3rd and 2. Lack of talent at the running back position (which to a certain extent I agree with you, btw) is not a justification for NEVER running the ball on 3rd down. And now you will say that they have run the ball on 3rd down, but I would counter that it's rare and when it happens, it's draw. They literally NEVER, as in 0 times, attempt dive on 3rd down. This is stupid, plain and simple, even if we are not that talented.

Your posts are getting worse and worse tonight...Why run a play that you know has a very slim chance of being successful. The Pats struggle running the ball in short yardage situations, so why would you keep trying? Ok so its 3rd and 5 and instead of calling a draw you want to call a dive, with either BJGE or Woodhead? Are you serious?

Again, they run way too much spread and they run it at the wrong times (when they are behind or when the game is close). They may not be a smashmouth team (on offense), but they are also not an effective spread team (and that's my point).

They are the offense that you want them to be though...they are inbetween a smash mouth team and a spread team. This year they havent ran much 4 WR formations, the have utilized their TEs and the majority of their formations have had 2 TEs on the field. You might want to take a look at this a little bit closer.

Here is the thing, we don't really know that we don't have an effective running game, because our OC in general doesn't attempt to run the ball enough to be able to make that determination. Personally, I think the running game is a lot better than most people seem to to think. Again, Woodhead is averaging 5 yds a pop.

You dont seem to understand the game of football. The Pats dont run the ball as much as you like because they dont have the guys to have a consistent running game. BJGE and Woodhead are not everyday RBs in the NFL, you cannot build a running game around them. If there was a solid RB on the roster and we didnt run the ball much, then I could see a reason to complain, not when you have these two guys. And yes Woodhead is averaging close to 5 yards a carry, but that is on 35 carries. Give him the ball 20 times a game, and see what happens. He probably wont be playing the next week. He doesnt have the body type to be an everyday back in the NFL. He is a very good 3rd down back, you cannot make him something he is not

 

[woodheadwow]

Your posts are getting worse and worse tonight...Why run a play that you know has a very slim chance of being successful. The Pats struggle running the ball in short yardage situations, so why would you keep trying? Ok so its 3rd and 5 and instead of calling a draw you want to call a dive, with either BJGE or Woodhead? Are you serious?


t

i'm not advocating they run it every 3rd down. I'm advocating that they run the ball on 3rd down more than 0% of the time. Yes, I'm serious about this. Are you serious that you want them to throw the ball 100% of the time on 3rd down? If so, it makes total sense that you would defend a baffoon like BOB.

They are the offense that you want them to be though...they are inbetween a smash mouth team and a spread team. This year they havent ran much 4 WR formations, the have utilized their TEs and the majority of their formations have had 2 TEs on the field. You might want to take a look at this a little bit closer.

They are nothing close to a spread team, yet they run the formation far too often especially when the game is close. Watch the games.

You dont seem to understand the game of football. The Pats dont run the ball as much as you like because they dont have the guys to have a consistent running game. BJGE and Woodhead are not everyday RBs in the NFL, you cannot build a running game around them. If there was a solid RB on the roster and we didnt run the ball much, then I could see a reason to complain, not when you have these two guys. And yes Woodhead is averaging close to 5 yards a carry, but that is on 35 carries. Give him the ball 20 times a game, and see what happens. He probably wont be playing the next week. He doesnt have the body type to be an everyday back in the NFL. He is a very good 3rd down back, you cannot make him something he is no

You are the one that doesn't understand. When the DC knows what you are going to do, that makes it very easy to defend against what you are trying to do. Furthermore, the reason we are not running the ball enough has nothing to do with lack of success as the number prove that we CAN successfully run the ball. The reason we are not running the ball enough is that our OC is a baffooon.

WW

 

[The Dynasty]

i'm not advocating they run it every 3rd down. I'm advocating that they run the ball on 3rd down more than 0% of the time. Yes, I'm serious about this. Are you serious that you want them to throw the ball 100% of the time on 3rd down? If so, it makes total sense that you would defend a baffoon like BOB.

They have a much greater chance of getting the first down by throwing the ball, why run the ball if you have a better chance of getting the first down by throwing it? Just doesnt make sense.

They are nothing close to a spread team, yet they run the formation far too often especially when the game is close. Watch the games.

This is from the Ravens game, I would say the others have been pretty similar...
2 WR/2 TE/1 RB – 47 of 76
3 WR/1 TE/1 RB -- 17 of 76
1 WR/3 TE/1 RB -- 8 of 76
1 WR/2 TE/1 FB/1 RB -- 2 of 76
3 TE/1 FB/1 RB -- 1 of 76
3 WR/2 TE -- 1 of 76

Doesnt look like they are running the spread as much as what you think...maybe you should do some research before posting.

You are the one that doesn't understand. When the DC knows what you are going to do, that makes it very easy to defend against what you are trying to do. Furthermore, the reason we are not running the ball enough has nothing to do with lack of success as the number prove that we CAN successfully run the ball. The reason we are not running the ball enough is that our OC is a baffooon.

WW

The Patriots running game is extremely inconsistent and cannot be depended on, both the RBs and the OL. Seems like you have more of a point questioning the Pats personnel, rather than the OC.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

i'm not advocating they run it every 3rd down. I'm advocating that they run the ball on 3rd down more than 0% of the time. Yes, I'm serious about this. Are you serious that you want them to throw the ball 100% of the time on 3rd down? If so, it makes total sense that you would defend a baffoon like BOB.

They ran on 3rd and 1 today and BJGE lost a yard, then they went for it on 4th down and they passed and made a big gain. They've run a few times on 3rd and short and havent been successful. Not sure what you getting at or if you've even looked at the stats

 

[The Dynasty]

They ran on 3rd and 1 today and BJGE lost a yard, then they went for it on 4th down and they passed and made a big gain. They've run a few times on 3rd and short and havent been successful. Not sure what you getting at or if you've even looked at the stats

Clearly he hasnt looked at any stats

 

[woodheadwow]

They have a much greater chance of getting the first down by throwing the ball, why run the ball if you have a better chance of getting the first down by throwing it? Just doesnt make sense.




This is from the Ravens game, I would say the others have been pretty similar...
2 WR/2 TE/1 RB – 47 of 76
3 WR/1 TE/1 RB -- 17 of 76
1 WR/3 TE/1 RB -- 8 of 76
1 WR/2 TE/1 FB/1 RB -- 2 of 76
3 TE/1 FB/1 RB -- 1 of 76
3 WR/2 TE -- 1 of 76

Doesnt look like they are running the spread as much as what you think...maybe you should do some research before posting.




The Patriots running game is extremely inconsistent and cannot be depended on, both the RBs and the OL. Seems like you have more of a point questioning the Pats personnel, rather than the OC.

Wow, you are really advocating that Pats throw the ball every single 3rd down- 100% of the time- and you claim that i am the one that doesn't understand football. Of all the foolish football opinions I've ever heard- and I've heard many- this might be the single most ridiculous and foolish opinion I've ever heard.
BTW your personnel groupings mean squat because they don't give the formation. Just because there are 2TE doesn't mean they aren't using 2 TE out of a bunch formation or traditional 4wr set with 2 of the WR being Gronkowski and Hernandez. Maybe you should do a little research before positing.

WW

 

[woodheadwow]

Clearly he hasnt looked at any stats

Clearly, you haven't read my post. Again, I complained that the Pats almost never run the ball on 3rd and 2 or longer (and when they do it's always draw).

WW

 

[woodheadwow]

They ran on 3rd and 1 today and BJGE lost a yard, then they went for it on 4th down and they passed and made a big gain. They've run a few times on 3rd and short and havent been successful. Not sure what you getting at or if you've even looked at the stats

If you read the whole post I was referring to 3rd and 2 or longer.

WW

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

I used to think that O'Brien was the primary problem.

However, there are still bizarre play calls. For example, I've seen many drives when a RB gets 7-8 yards on 1st down, and then 2 passing plays are called. They end up punting.

Overall, it's pretty clear the Pats offense just flat out sucks. They will not end up with the highest scoring offense in the NFL at season's end.

 

[The Dynasty]

Wow, you are really advocating that Pats throw the ball every single 3rd down- 100% of the time- and you claim that i am the one that doesn't understand football. Of all the foolish football opinions I've ever heard- and I've heard many- this might be the single most ridiculous and foolish opinion I've ever heard.
BTW your personnel groupings mean squat because they don't give the formation. Just because there are 2TE doesn't mean they aren't using 2 TE out of a bunch formation or traditional 4wr set with 2 of the WR being Gronkowski and Hernandez. Maybe you should do a little research before positing.

WW

With the RBs the Pats have I would much rather have them throw the ball on 3rd down than run the ball. Look at teams like the Colts, they throw the call almost 100% of the time on 3rd down and they are pretty successful. The majority of the time I'd like the Pats to throw, then mix in an occasional draw from time to time (definitely not a dive like you suggested)

Right, it doesnt give the formation but the majority of the time Gronk is lined up on the line of scrimmage. Just use your eyes the Pats arent using as much of the spread this year as in years past.

 

[woodheadwow]

No, the coaching can certainly be better. No question about that. However, to throw the entire game on the offensive coordinator given the amount of personnel and execution issues we saw on BOTH sides of the ball today is simply ridiculous.

I'm not blaming this loss on the BOB.

WW

 

[woodheadwow]

With the RBs the Pats have I would much rather have them throw the ball on 3rd down than run the ball. Look at teams like the Colts, they throw the call almost 100% of the time on 3rd down and they are pretty successful. The majority of the time I'd like the Pats to throw, then mix in an occasional draw from time to time (definitely not a dive like you suggested)

Right, it doesnt give the formation but the majority of the time Gronk is lined up on the line of scrimmage. Just use your eyes the Pats arent using as much of the spread this year as in years past.

The Colts most certainly do NOT throw the ball 100% on 3rd down, and last year they had absolutely no running game.

WW

 

[BradyBranch39]

Not his fault team fumbled away the game but, damn browns had some cool plays. Loved the fake to stuckey at the goal line. Why can't pats do anything creative?

maybe because we weren't 2-5 with nothing to lose?

 

[USCPatriot]

I agree with the poster, the plays are horrid 85% of the time. It seems like only 3 run plays exist, slamming it through the middle, run to the right, or shotgun draw play. Oh and in goal line formation/ for 4th down, does anyone even remember when we have converted a fourth down by running it in that formation?

The 4 screen plays called in every game are just disgusting to say the least, predictable and shameful. We used to have screen plays from the running back to the wide receiver to the tight end. It seems like the last couple screens we have run, the opponent always forces Brady to throw it away or our RB gets blasted after 2 yards.

O'Brien had ALL of 2009 to get acclimated to our offense, i'm not saying he is terrible as a couch, just pointing out that this is a SERIOUS problem. One of the reasons why we gave up huge 4th quarter leads last year was because our offense would just not get it done at times, because of terrible play calls. Thats just my opinion.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Man I hate O'Brien sometimes. But he wasn't the reason we lost yesterday.

Every OC we have had, and will have, will suck simply because that's who fans blame when the offense struggles. Odd to hear some wanting Charlie back before he signed with the Chiefs since we basically hated him when he was here. Ditto McDaniels. And now BOB.

I don't think BOBs as good as either of the two guys before him, but I don't think we're losing games because of him either. At the very least, the Browns loss wasn't on him.

 

[WelshPat]

Man I hate O'Brien sometimes. But he wasn't the reason we lost yesterday.

Every OC we have had, and will have, will suck simply because that's who fans blame when the offense struggles. Odd to hear some wanting Charlie back before he signed with the Chiefs since we basically hated him when he was here. Ditto McDaniels. And now BOB.

Yeah, because the C's are the easiest people on the team to blame, cause we never see them.

After almost every loss, there is a thread that blames one of the C's for something. All i want to know is, around the entire league who does a much better job of playcalling than what we have? If ours is so bad, who is better?

 

[vyrago]

Who else threw their remote when O'Brien fumbled before the half?

Mine was gone when he called for the fair catch and then stepped out of the way. He's a complete maroon!!!

 

[RhodyPatriot]

I agree about O'Brien. I don't like the playcalling and I don't like how they utilize their players. If Wes Welker is getting doubled every game then you kick Wes outside and you try to open up the middle with Edelman and the tights. Last time I checked Brandon Tate has some major speed. Aaron Hernandez also has WR speed. They should be stretching the field every single game. But they don't. The Patriots O plays right into the hands of the D they're facing by the way they limit themselves with the playcalling and the under-utilization of the roster.