This defense compared to years past

[BobDigital]

I wanted to have this thread but didn't know where to go with it. Comparing it to stats is not going to work as it actually looks worse than other Ds in the past that were not as good. Also to compare talent is hard to do but I think it is the best way to go. I will only look at the championship years.

2014 projected starters in the playoffs - DL Jones, Wilfork Easley Nink; LB Collins Hightower; DBs Revis Browner Arrington McCourty Chung - Look at this group you see a lot of top end talent with blue collar vets.

Now lets look at the Years the pats went to a Superbowl.

2001 - DL Seymour Hamilton Pleasant McGinest LB Bruschi Vrabel Phifer/Johnson DB Law Smith Milloy Jones (I cluded an extra guy as this was very hybrid). Some good solid vets but also big time playmakers. clearly SB caliber
2003 - DL Hamilton Washington Seymour LB McGinest Vrabel Bruschi Johnson DB Law Harrison Poole Wilson - Some changes but still a lot of the key players and arguably the best D the Pats ever had.
2004 - DL Seymour Wilfork Warren LB McGinest Vrabel Bruschi Johnson DB Law Samuel Harrison Wilson

Now the years that fell a bit short

2007 - DL Green (Seymour went down i think) Wilfork Warren LB Bruschi Vrabel Thomas Colvin DB Samuel Harrison Sanders Hobbs

2011 - DL Wilfork Nink Carter(went down i think; Anderson stepped in?) Love LB Mayo Spikes Guyton? DB McCourty Chung Arrington Ihedigbo

So i think that is mostly accurate and looked part of it up. Obviously depth matters too but I am not gonna look up all that : P

Looking comparing years is hard cause some players played better some years than other ones. However I think it is very clear to say this D is better than either 07 or 11. Looking at the talent now it was no wonder they lost. Don't know if it is better than any of those Superbowl winning years but I would say it is very arguable.

 

[deters]

Easily the best defensive unit Patriots have had since 2007.

Amazing how bad 2011's was and we still made it to the SB.

 

[oldrover]

Here's how much better the defense is this year:

These days... on third down...









I have hope.

 

[BobDigital]

Easily the best defensive unit Patriots have had since 2007.

Amazing how bad 2011's was and we still made it to the SB.

At hind sight looking at 07' I am not impressed. They had some good vets but were getting old and the play was dropping off a bit at the end.

Who were your best players in 07 in the playoffs? Wilfork, Vrabel and probably Samuel? I mean that is okay but Samuel was not that good. He got picks but took gambles. Bruschi/Harrison were starting to look their age. Colvin/Thomas both were not that good. Thomas especailly. It has a lot of holes come playoff time and could not really get off the field.

I think it is the best since 2004 possibly. Might be better than 2005/2006 too. I would probably say a good shot as Law was gone and McGinest soon after that were HOF talents they never really replaced.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Now lets look at the Years the pats went to a Superbowl.

2001 - DL Seymour Hamilton Pleasant McGinest LB Bruschi Vrabel Phifer/Johnson DB Law Smith Milloy Jones (I cluded an extra guy as this was very hybrid). Some good solid vets but also big time playmakers. clearly SB caliber

2003 - DL Hamilton Washington Seymour LB McGinest Vrabel Bruschi Johnson DB Law Harrison Poole Wilson - Some changes but still a lot of the key players and arguably the best D the Pats ever had.

2004 - DL Seymour Wilfork Warren LB McGinest Vrabel Bruschi Johnson DB Law Samuel Harrison Wilson

Now the years that fell a bit short

2007 - DL Green (Seymour went down i think) Wilfork Warren LB Bruschi Vrabel Thomas Colvin DB Samuel Harrison Sanders Hobbs

2011 - DL Wilfork Nink Carter(went down i think; Anderson stepped in?) Love LB Mayo Spikes Guyton? DB McCourty Chung Arrington Ihedigbo

So i think that is mostly accurate and looked part of it up. Obviously depth matters too but I am not gonna look up all that : P

Looking comparing years is hard cause some players played better some years than other ones. However I think it is very clear to say this D is better than either 07 or 11. Looking at the talent now it was no wonder they lost. Don't know if it is better than any of those Superbowl winning years but I would say it is very arguable.

Time will tell. The 07 D preformed well in the playoffs. The '14 D is behind the 01, 03 04, 06 and 07 defenses.

 

[oldrover]

The game has changed since those defenses played. For today's game, I really like our personnel on D. We have multiple Swiss Army knives out there in all three units, and serious depth in the secondary.

 

[nabwong]

Because the rules are so in favor of the offense now, I think this is the best D we've ever had.

 

[mayoclinic]

Best defense since 2003 and could end up being better. Heresy, I know, but the game has changed and you can't compare stats. This D is far more versatile and deeper, It can match up against anyone. 2003 was a much better run D, though this one is improving.

 

[ausbacker]

Because the rules are so in favor of the offense now, I think this is the best D we've ever had.

2003 and 2004 were very good units mate. This unit is developing well but I'd like to see this level of performance in the post-season before I put it on par with those years.

That said, the potential is there for this to be the best unit since 2003. It's exciting.

 

[nabwong]

2003 and 2004 were very good units mate. This unit is developing well but I'd like to see this level of performance in the post-season before I put it on par with those years.

That said, the potential is there for this to be the best unit since 2003. It's exciting.

Those were definitely awesome Ds but they could get away with mauling the other team. I just think it is incredibly hard to cover when you can't interfere the receiver and also can't intimidate the passer as much. I also feel that this D is a little more versatile.

 

[A man named Brady]

We can actually cover

 

[Ozymandias]

It's hard to compare defenses from different eras given all the rule changes that have come about. Even the Super Bowl defenses based on numerical data and stats are incomparable to today's defenses due to all those changes.

However, one thing that's a constant for a good defensive teams are making stops/forcing turnovers when you absolutely need them. This 2014 defense has shown that they have that ability thus far. It remains to be seen how they'll look going forward, but they're definitely a better team than those Super Bowl ones in the secondary.

 

[patsfan13]

Well I look at the standing relative to pts allowed, the best D allows the fewest number of points.


The Pats of 2003-2004 were the best, the 2006-2007 units were also very good, I agree the 2007 started to fade late. The 2010 unit was pretty good.

The current group is ranked 13th we'll see where they end up, the disaster against KC didn't help, they seem to be on the upswing currently the game at Lambeau will be the test of where they are at now.

 

[deters]

This thread makes me sad about what could have been... A 2nd straight decade of a Patriots dynasty? I say yes if we had this defensive unit and health from 2010 to present.

 

[n6249c]

This thread makes me sad about what could have been... A 2nd straight decade of a Patriots dynasty? I say yes if we had this defensive unit and health from 2010 to present.

Look forward, not back. This is overall a pretty young team. This could be the first year of another Lombardi trifecta to bookend Brady's career and finish the second decade of the dynasty in style.

 

[captain stone]

This defense still needs to put more consistent pressure on the QB before it can be favorably compared
to the '01-o7 versions.

 

[Saint Pat]

Gotta give this defense credit, because I don't hold my breath any more in obvious passing situations like I used to. In years past when the opposing QB held onto the ball and waited for a big play downfield , the secondary would give up long yardage and allow the opposing team to convert on third and longs. No more of that. If the QB held onto the ball against this defense it usually ends up being a coverage sack.

In conclusion, pay this man ->

 

[mayoclinic]

This defense still needs to put more consistent pressure on the QB before it can be favorably compared
to the '01-o7 versions.

The D can already be compared reasonably to the 2001-2007 versions. Add a bit more pressure and it would move into the really elite category, IMO.

 

[farn]

This D. Way way ahead of anything in recent years. This team stops teams on 3rd and less than 5. Recently, I would worry on 3rd and 12...

The defensive backs are competent - but the run D isn't suffering - which is a good sign. It's mid-November and anything can happen, but this D gives me more confidence than any since 04. And, no, I don't think this D compares favourably with 03/04. But everything has changed in a decade and I'm not sure how that D would do this year....

 

[BobDigital]

This D. Way way ahead of anything in recent years. This team stops teams on 3rd and less than 5. Recently, I would worry on 3rd and 12...

The defensive backs are competent - but the run D isn't suffering - which is a good sign. It's mid-November and anything can happen, but this D gives me more confidence than any since 04. And, no, I don't think this D compares favourably with 03/04. But everything has changed in a decade and I'm not sure how that D would do this year....

The 03' 04' Ds would still be elite. The game may has changed a bit but talent still plays and that team had it. They could stop the run, rush the passer and cover. Also they had a vet savvy we are only now starting to see with this team. They would be a bit bigger than you might want these days but McGinest/Law/Harrison/Seymour were just lights out talents and would still be in today's game.