This Board Overrated the OL Draftees

[mgteich]

I agree that the vast MAJORITY of late round picks amount to nothing. We are on a zero for 7 run. Bleichick is supposed to be great at drafting in the lower rounds. Actually he is compared to the rest of league. Offensive linemen has given a different result lately.

Koppen and Neal certainly were late round and UDFA successes.
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My point was NOT that Belichick can't find backups. Connolly and Wendell certainly qualify, as does Ojnnaka.
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My point is that the FO did not seem to recognize the need for starters or future starters in the interior line in 2008, even when there were ZERO guards signed for the next season. The situations with Neal and Mankins were well known. We needed at least one starter or potential and more safely two. The situation was the same when the 2009 draft came, although the success of Vollmer freed up Kaczur to potentially be a starter or Game Day Backup.
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BOTTOM LINE
If Ojinnaka is indeed a solid veteran backup at RG and RT, then we are fine on the right side. LeVoir completes the backups.

Wendell is the backup center.

Wendell is OK stopgap at backup LG, if Kaczur is expected to contribute by mid-season.
In the end, Kaczur is an important part of the picture. If Kaczur is to be counted on, then we are fine and perhaps as strong as last year. If Kaczur is not to be counted on, then he needs to be move to the IR and we need to sign a veteran lineman.

DECISION TIME IS AFTER GAME ONE
After Game One, the team does not have to guarantee the full year slary of a veteran addition. It is then that the decision on Kaczur needs to be made.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

I concur with you. Those four are my pre-season premium draft binkies. We won't get them all, unless GC is judged a ROT, and not quite a premium LOT candidate, which is possible.

But I think you overlook that fact that drafting LOTs is different from drafting guys meant to be reserves; and only possible starters. Like Light, they found their next generation LOT, in the second round, and Volmer will get seasoning at ROT, right on schedule.

Ohrnberger is doing fine in that second category, and right on schedule, too. Award him the "Hochstein" Trophy. I always thought Nick K was drafted to be a starting G and he surprised, at ROT. So they drafted Mankins afterwards for the G slot Nick was planned to fill, and still might, or he might inherit Neal's slot, if Mankins returns too.

Kaczur played LT his first year here and was in the same draft class as Mankins, not before.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

I don't know how over-rated a bunch of guys from the 4th to 7th round could be, but I wouldn't say I'm disappointed in the PS for some of them. I was hoping we would hang onto Larsen, but it's clear a lot of these guys were projects. At least now they're on the PS and not taking up valuable roster spots.

The pre-season clearly showed most of these guys were not ready anyways. And I still have hopes that with another year or two, they could grow into contributors. Or they'll be replaced by next year's projects taken late in the draft.

 

[Mark Morse]

Last year we drafted O lineman because it was a weak draft and BB took a flyer on these guys. It didn't work out. 12 draftees are not going to make your team every year. The Pats have kept one ( or this year three) un drafted free agents every year. They are hungry and don't feel entitled like a draft pick does. Larsen was not ready to play this year. They tried to sneak hin through to PS. He got snatched up. Meaning that some other team thought he was worth keeping a roster spot. We kept a roster spot for Kaczur! I thought Bussey played well enough to be kept.

I would like to see a veteran free agent (Hartwig, Mawae or even Ghiaciuc) signed after week one. This way they would not have to guarantee the contract. Maybe even waive Kaczur with an injury settlement ( like they did years ago with Larry Centers) and bring him back later once his back heals. Manieri isa project with a lot of potential. They probably won't be able to get him to the PS.

The draft is a crapshoot.

 

[Metaphors]

My point was NOT that Belichick can't find backups. Connolly and Wendell certainly qualify, as does Ojnnaka.
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My point is that the FO did not seem to recognize the need for starters or future starters in the interior line in 2008, even when there were ZERO guards signed for the next season. The situations with Neal and Mankins were well known. We needed at least one starter or potential and more safely two. The situation was the same when the 2009 draft came, although the success of Vollmer freed up Kaczur to potentially be a starter or Game Day Backup.

I thought I knew where you were going, but now I'm lost. Belichick builds a team with 9 OL players that he believes can start when call upon, the 5 best of which actually get to start when they are healthy (and signed).

So the Pats have Light, Mankins, Koppen, Neal and Vollmer. With Mankins unsigned and Kaczur hurt, Connolly steps as the next "starter" on the depth chart. While I know you realize this, your phrasing makes it seem like the Pats need 3 different acquisition strategies...one for starters, one for future starters and one for backups. If there were actual distinctions like this, why would anyone actually acquire "backups"? Wouldn't every team want 5 starters and 4 future starters?

I think it is fair game to say that the Pats have been unsuccessful in getting talented OL candidates on their roster beyond the top 5. I think it is a bit strange to suggest that the Pats planned to get OL candidates that were ill-equipped to start beyond short-term situations.

Outside of the Ravens and maybe the Packers (though I'm not high on their guards), the top teams will generally have low draft picks, UDFAs or reclamation projects starting in their interior line somewhere. I think that is just the financial nature of the league and the nature of the position.

 

[PatsChamp88]

Late round picks are definitely a crapshoot but I don't think anyone overrated the offensive linemen selected late this year...

 

[mgteich]

We don't need three strategies. However, we do really have two. When Belichick sees a real need at an OL position, he will use what he needs to use as he did for Mankins.

Belichick did not see the need for a starting guard that many here did. It is HUGE plus for the team that Neal is able to play this year. The team went into 2009 with a huge 2009 and 2010 need at guard, and used few resources trying to meet the need.

Yes, it is unlucky that Kaczur was injured. However, an injury to Neal would have been foreseen so we are even on the injury score.

In the end, the team did not plan to lose Mankins and had a weak Plan B.

I thought I knew where you were going, but now I'm lost. Belichick builds a team with 9 OL players that he believes can start when call upon, the 5 best of which actually get to start when they are healthy (and signed).

So the Pats have Light, Mankins, Koppen, Neal and Vollmer. With Mankins unsigned and Kaczur hurt, Connolly steps as the next "starter" on the depth chart. While I know you realize this, your phrasing makes it seem like the Pats need 3 different acquisition strategies...one for starters, one for future starters and one for backups. If there were actual distinctions like this, why would anyone actually acquire "backups"? Wouldn't every team want 5 starters and 4 future starters?

I think it is fair game to say that the Pats have been unsuccessful in getting talented OL candidates on their roster beyond the top 5. I think it is a bit strange to suggest that the Pats planned to get OL candidates that were ill-equipped to start beyond short-term situations.

Outside of the Ravens and maybe the Packers (though I'm not high on their guards), the top teams will generally have low draft picks, UDFAs or reclamation projects starting in their interior line somewhere. I think that is just the financial nature of the league and the nature of the position.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

In the end, the team did not plan to lose Mankins and had a weak Plan B.

Plan A: Light, Mankins, Koppen, Neal, Kaczur/Vollmer; Kaczur/Vollmer, Connelly, LeVoir, Wendell/Ohrnberger/Bussey/Larsen/Welch/player X. Wendell looked better then Connolly in preseason to my eyes last year, so I'm not surprised to see his progression this year, and I doubt Dante is either. We also need to remember Bill Belichick claimed Connolly was competitive to start last year, some may see that as blowing smoke, but I don't think you are one of them, hence Connolly being competitive to start this season should be no surprise.

Plan B: Light, Kaczur/Connolly, Koppen, Neal, Vollmer; LeVoir, Kaczur/Connolly, Wendell/Ohrnberger/Bussey/Larsen/Welch/player X. Folks complain about the number of OL test driven in camp/preseason, but was it that unreasonable to think they could reach a deal with Mankins before camp started? I don't believe it was, but Plan B had no particular urgency until Kaczur was injured - crap happens.

Plan C: Light, Connolly, Koppen, Neal, Vollmer; LeVoir, Wendell, player X, player Y. As noted above, Wendell was already on track, no surprise in his making the roster. I felt Ohrnberger wasn't ready, but he was coming along and was competitive to make the roster; however, as you and others pointed out this was a competitive roster at a lot of spots and NE went for the sneak play and kept Slater/Green-Ellis/Fletcher/Arrington/Love, presumably because they felt Kaczur would be back and Ojinnaka suitable for multi-position depth after game one. Now they have an OT conversion project and a healthy OL pool for game one, plus Ojinnaka next week. And as far as I know, Ghiaciuc and Bussey are still available on the shadow roster.

None of this smacks of desperation or lack of foresight, it is what it is, a workable plan C with some plan D options in place with O on the Squad and two other lads on speed dial. I won't be surprised to see Maneri taking late game/blocking TE reps by mid-season, nor would I be surprised if he was gone next week, it's the back of the roster.