They never learn - How Bout Those Bills

[Deus Irae]

I made no mention whatsoever of KW stopping JC on the edge. I simply said MD and KW are better than KC's interior OL, which should limit JC inside. if you want to say otherwise, that's cool, but i doubt anyone will agree. MD and KW are an elite pair of DTs.

To be fair, you are correct about the KW thing. I mind-blanked and was thinking you meant him on the outside, not Mario. So, Mea Culpa on that. As for Dareus being elite, he wasn't last year. You're assuming that level of growth for the Bills, yet not assuming any ability for a guy like Poe. That's what I mean about best case/worst case.

So what you are saying is KC won one more game than BUF last year and had FAR fewer injuries?

No, I'm saying that K.C. was without their most crucial players for all/most of the season. Berry, as I'm sure you recall, was lost in the second quarter of the first game. Charles was lost week 2. Moeaki never even made it to the first game. For a team built around the run game and the short passing game, that's huge.

Unless you think OLs match up vs OLs this logic is totally flawed. Even if KC does have a better OL than BUF, it doesnt matter b/c OLs face DLs and so on.

I think harnessed talent generally wins out. KC has more harnessed talented than Buffalo, on both sides of the ball.

However, to play your flawed matchup game, you are gonna tell me KC's RBs are better than Buffalo's with a straight face?

Charles is, by far, the best running back on either team when all are healthy.

First of all, the Bills don't have a NT. Second of all, I made no mention of their interior DTs setting the outside edge. Nor did I say "shut down", I said "limit". Huge difference, esp when referring to an elite player.

The Chiefs just drafted Poe to be the NT, and I already mea culpa'd about the other part.

 

[LetsGoBuffalo]

Oh and the Chiefs didn't have Berry, Charles, or Moeaki.

Certainly a factor, no doubt. The same axiom must hold true, however, as to why the Bills lost 8 of their last 9. Right?

Athletically the Bills are just outmatched. The only person that will be capable of making plays against that D is Stevie Johnson due to his savvy route running.

CJ Spiller and Fred Jackson beg to differ.

I mean that because your LBs are garbage and a run-first team like KC is going to trounce all over you.

I agree here. The Bills' LBs are mediocre at best. I'm very concerned about teams with strong interior OLs that can get a hat on our LBs in the run game. Where I disagree is with KC, IMO our interior DL is superior to their interior OL. Generally speaking you are correct however, Buffalo's LBs are a major question mark.

For how great K. Williams, M. Williams, Dareus, and Anderson are, they all are below average against the run except for maybe Mario Williams. I look forward to the "Oh ****!" facial expressions on Wilson and Byrd as Peyton Hillis comes full steam right at them.

The Bills built their D for "finesse" offenses like us, not smash mouth offenses like KC.

Admittedly I did forget about Hillis. He could give the Bills (or any team) headaches as a nice change of pace to JC. Good call.

I completely disagree about MD and KW being "below average" against the run, however. KW's body of work as a run stopper needs no justification, and MD was above average vs the run in 2011 with the sky being the limit.

Williams and Anderson I agree with you being "eh" vs the run.

 

[VrabelJr]

I think the Bills had a great draft and I believe at least one of, if not both, Glenn and Sanders will be long term starters. But look at KC's defense:

Dorsey-Poe-Jackson
Hali-Johnson-Belcher-Houston
Flowers-Berry-Lewis-Routt

That's just ridiculous. People can say what they want about Dorsey and Jackson but they have quietly become two of the best 3-4 DEs in the game (Justin Smith and JJ Watt come to mind as better but that's about all off the top of my head). That defense has such a special combination of size, speed, and smarts it's almost unfair. I hope that defense is healthy all year for the sake of entertainment.

 

[JackBauer]

Oh, come on. KC's defense has some nice pieces, but you're overstating it a bit, IMO. Particularly your assessment of Jackson. Also don't care much for Belcher or Routt.

 

[LetsGoBuffalo]

No, I'm saying that K.C. was without their most crucial players for all/most of the season. Berry, as I'm sure you recall, was lost in the second quarter of the first game. Charles was lost week 2. Moeaki never even made it to the first game. For a team built around the run game and the short passing game, that's huge.

Look man, I totally get what you are saying, and I respect your opinion. I don't post much here but I do lurk and many of your posts are insightful and on the mark.

However, I don't think you can reference KC's injuries as a reason for their poor record and not do the same for BUF. The Bills lost far more players at the most crucial positions as well. You can't use it as an excuse for one team and gloss it over for another.

I think I agree with you that JC individually is better than FredEx or Spiller, but IMO collectively the Bills win out. Spiller proved last year he can be elite. KC does not have that kind of combo.

 

[VrabelJr]

Oh, come on. KC's defense has some nice pieces, but you're overstating it a bit, IMO. Particularly your assessment of Jackson. Also don't care much for Belcher or Routt.

When Warren and Seymour were in their primes nobody even noticed it until a couple years into it. At an unselfish spot like 3-4 DE it takes a couple of years for everyone to recognize. A few years from now you'll look back and be like "damn, Dorsey and Jackson have been doing this for a few years now actually."

 

[Deus Irae]

Look man, I totally get what you are saying, and I respect your opinion. I don't post much here but I do lurk and many of your posts are insightful and on the mark.

However, I don't think you can reference KC's injuries as a reason for their poor record and not do the same for BUF. The Bills lost far more players at the most crucial positions as well. You can't use it as an excuse for one team and gloss it over for another.

I think I agree with you that JC individually is better than FredEx or Spiller, but IMO collectively the Bills win out. Spiller proved last year he can be elite. KC does not have that kind of combo.

I appreciate the kind words. Truly, I do.

About the Bills injuries, you'll note that I never dismissed them. I didn't mention them, because I'm of the opinion that the Chiefs were harder hit by injury, not because of numbers, but because of who was hit. The Chiefs offense was built around Charles running the ball and Cassel completing mostly short passes. With Moeaki and Charles gone, that offense was dead in the water.

As for the KC running game, you may be forgetting that the Chiefs signed Hillis.

 

[JackBauer]

When Warren and Seymour were in their primes nobody even noticed it until a couple years into it. At an unselfish spot like 3-4 DE it takes a couple of years for everyone to recognize. A few years from now you'll look back and be like "damn, Dorsey and Jackson have been doing this for a few years now actually."

Seymour was a stud by his second year and Warren was solid by then. Dorsey is a solid end in his fourth season and Jackson is meh through his third year in the league.

I'd take Sey/Warren in their primes over either of KC's ends.

 

[Deus Irae]

Oh, come on. KC's defense has some nice pieces, but you're overstating it a bit, IMO. Particularly your assessment of Jackson. Also don't care much for Belcher or Routt.

Jackson had to take a pay cut in his rookie contract. That's a telling sign for a top 5 pick, IMO. He seemed to come on a little at the end of last year, particularly against the run, but he's still no great shakes. I'd guess that the hope for the Chiefs is that having a monster like Poe in the middle will free up Jackson and Dorsey. I'm not sold on that, as I've never been a huge Dorsey fan (especially in the 3-4), and Jackson hasn't seemed to develop any sort of attacking ability at all.

Poe's going to be the key to that defense, along with Berry's return. Berry being at 100% will make that secondary a lot tougher in the middle and, if Poe works out, that's like having a bigger Big Vince in the middle of your 3-4.

 

[LetsGoBuffalo]

About the Bills injuries, you'll note that I never dismissed them. I didn't mention them, because I'm of the opinion that the Chiefs were harder hit by injury, not because of numbers, but because of who was hit. The Chiefs offense was built around Charles running the ball and Cassel completing mostly short passes. With Moeaki and Charles gone, that offense was dead in the water.

Fair enough. My opinion happens to be different, but that's the way of the world. Nothing wrong with some healthy disagreement.

A

s for the KC running game, you may be forgetting that the Chiefs signed Hillis.

As another poster pointed out, I did indeed forget about him. However, Spiller is a superior player in every way except for running over guys. That said, with Hillis' bruising style, he's a great compliment to JC.

At the end of the day I might not chalk up the KC game as a win if it were on the road or later in the year, but given that it's BUF's home opener and given the way I feel the way the Bills match up, I like the Bills in this one. But hey, as we have said over and over, it's April. We'll see.

Anyway, the original discussion started out with 6 of the first 9 on the road. If they come out of that 5-4/6-3, they're in great shape for the stretch run with 5 of 7 at home. Even at 4-5 they're in good shape. However, if it's 3-6, forget about it. I happen to think 5-4 is "not unreasonable". We'll see how it shakes out.

 

[strngplyr]

I might be the minority, but I like Buffalos backfield collection over KC's, I feel like putting Hillis in the game telegraphs the play, even if his running style is a nice compliment to Charles, its fairly obvious that Hillis is going to try to run you over up the middle.

I do think that Charles is the superior talent, though.

 

[Deus Irae]

... I happen to think 5-4 is "not unreasonable". We'll see how it shakes out.

To be fair, I was talking about the 6-3 thing, not 5-4.


Point's still the same, though, in that all this talk won't change what happens on the field. It's been a good bit of back and forth, though, so thanks for the time.

Oh, yeah......

I'll be a Bills fan at least twice this season. May they crush the Jets!

 

[zoostation]

I'll be a Bills fan at least twice this season. May they crush the Jets!

Indeed.

Would love to see them win big week 1 at giant-life stadium.

Let's go Buffalo !

 

[buffalobills365]

The Bills seem to Believe they are now the team to beat in the east with their Solid draft.
We took their best pass rusher.... Anderson is playing for us now and they have a rookie.

Every single member on our DL is better than theirs, not to mention both of our safeties are better

If you are talking about the patriots this post absolutely cannot be serious or I feel bad for you.

Dareus, Williams, Williams, and Anderson are 100X better than the patriots d-line, and George Wilson and Jairus Byrd are one of the best safety tandems in the league.

The Pats D is still a HUGE joke.

 

[strngplyr]

If you are talking about the patriots this post absolutely cannot be serious or I feel bad for you.

Dareus, Williams, Williams, and Anderson are 100X better than the patriots d-line, and George Wilson and Jairus Byrd are one of the best safety tandems in the league.

The Pats D is still a HUGE joke.

Your D allowed 92 more points and your offense scored 141 less points. Only two teams allowed more points. If New Englands defense is a huge joke still, what is Buffalo's, they have the best DL in football and best safety tandem according to you, why can't they keep anyone out of the endzone while our joke of a D allowed far fewer points?

 

[Deus Irae]

If you are talking about the patriots this post absolutely cannot be serious or I feel bad for you.

Dareus, Williams, Williams, and Anderson are 100X better than the patriots d-line, and George Wilson and Jairus Byrd are one of the best safety tandems in the league.

The Pats D is still a HUGE joke.

As you know, I agree with you that the Bills D-line should be much better than the Patriots line. However, the best player on either line is still Vince Wilfork, and that's at least something we Patriots fans can take a bit of comfort in.

As for your safeties, I think you're overrating them. Just my $.02, though.

 

[buffalobills365]

Your D allowed 92 more points and your offense scored 141 less points. Only two teams allowed more points. If New Englands defense is a huge joke still, what is Buffalo's, they have the best DL in football and best safety tandem according to you, why can't they keep anyone out of the endzone while our joke of a D allowed far fewer points?

Might I remind you that the Patriots set an NFL record for yards allowed in a season?

As for the points. The Bills had no pass rush last year. It was basically Marcell Dareus vs entire teams offensive lines. Merriman was hurt, Williams hurt, M Williams, not on the team, Anderson not on the team. This meant that opposing QBs had all year to stand in the pocket and wait for someone to come open, which then caused the corners to not be able to cover the recivers because they had to cover them for such an extended period of time.

As you can tel, the Bills addressed this pass rush issue, and with a healthy Kyle Williams returning theBills front four is top 5 in the NFL. Don't expect Brady to have all day back there anymore.

Meanwhile, the Patriots added workout warrior Chan Jones, who will probably not even make an impact this year as their only new weapon in a pass rush which lost their sack leader.

Jones<Anderson

The Bills made huge strides while the patriots choise to keep bolstering their offense with old wide receivers, instead of going after D players in free agency. Doesn't make much sense to me.

 

[Deus Irae]

Your D allowed 92 more points and your offense scored 141 less points. Only two teams allowed more points. If New Englands defense is a huge joke still, what is Buffalo's, they have the best DL in football and best safety tandem according to you, why can't they keep anyone out of the endzone while our joke of a D allowed far fewer points?

In his defense, they lost their best defensive player after just 4 games, and they did just add Mario Williams and Mark Anderson to that D-line.

I'd rank Buffalo's D-line as the best in the AFCE right now, followed by New York, New England and then Miami.

 

[buffalobills365]

As you know, I agree with you that the Bills D-line should be much better than the Patriots line. However, the best player on either line is still Vince Wilfork, and that's at least something we Patriots fans can take a bit of comfort in.

As for your safeties, I think you're overrating them. Just my $.02, though.

If I had to choose one player on the Patriots to like it would be Wilfork. I have nothing but respect for the dude and he is a beast. But with the addition of Mario Williams to the Bills I really have trouble calling him the best player on either line. Just my .02$

As for Byrd and Wilson, Byrd is a pro bowl talent and Wilson has always been consistent. Those two are very good and easily in the top ten of safety tandems in the league. That's just my opinion though. Feel free to disagree

 

[literatestylish]

Take away Mario Williams and you have a mediocre team having a mediocre offseason. One guy isn't elevating medicore to contender.

Well that's kindof a silly comment. "Take away one of the best pass rushers in the league and they're mediocre." That's like saying "Take away Tom Brady and New England is mediocre. You can't take away players. It's silly.

Anyway, you have to remember that the Bills didn't just start strong and then fall off. They started strong, got a TON of INJURIES, and then faded. They lost their starting RB, Center, Left Tackle, Right Guard, DT, and CB.

That's a LOT of starting players to lose. Any team that loses 6 starters is going to fade off. The Bills are getting all those starters back, PLUS Mario Williams and Anderson, PLUS their draft picks.

They should be in for a good season. They beat the Pats when they were healthy last season.