The Trade - 8 Games Later

[mgteich]

We got the TE we needed for peanuts, that's a win already in my book. This move also make something definetely clear, Hooman garbage, he is proven useless right now, I would pack him with another player and send for a swing tackle or another bottom of the roster LB.

This is truly funny. You do understand that Hooman gets lots and lots of reps for good reason. Hooman is a blocking TE, on the field as much as Gronk. How exactly has the blocking worked with Hooman out there? How exactly has the offense fallen down with Hooman having a major role?

As has been pointed out to me many times, Hooman was the priority TE in the off-season. Once Hooman was re-signed, Belichick SEEMED to have only mild interest in signing a TE, until Wright became available.

 

[shmessy]

Maybe if you're trying to warp the definition to fit a narrative, which I'm assuming is the case. But you're conveniently forgetting about that whole "TEAM!!!" aspect that you spent the first two weeks of the season pounding the table for. Without even trying too hard, one only needs to look at the difference between the receiving corps (WR's and TE's) from 2013 to 2014 to see but one reason for the difference between the two sack totals. Shall I go on? Or do you have the general idea?

Yeah, they have a pass catching #2 TE in 2014 versus using Hoomanawanui.

Great Trade!

 

[Kontradiction]

Yeah, they have a pass catching #2 TE in 2014 versus using Hoomanawanui.

Great Trade!

Now you're being willfully dense. You're smarter than this. In 2013, they were breaking in a third round rookie, an undrafted rookie, a new guy that has never played with Brady and ripped his groin in Week 1, Edelman, and Hooman. In 2014, they have LaFell instead of Dobson, Edelman, Amendola in year two, Dobson back in year two after injury, and the best TE in the NFL. Even if you're just using Gronk, the receiving corps is much better off in 2014, to this point, than in 2013. And that's not even taking into account that Wendell is no longer the C either.

As for the trade, I'm still going to withhold ultimate judgement on it (as I said before) until I see the end result. That's all that matters. The interior OL is playing very, very well right now but if they **** the bed in the playoffs, then was the trade still a good one?

 

[Oswlek]

if they **** the bed in the playoffs, then was the trade still a good one?

Yes, because they've done the same thing with Mankins since 2007. The only difference is now they have a promising TE, a high 4th and a good amount of cap room. Even if the line craps out, they take Tavon Wilson 2.0 and sign Adalius 2.0 with the money it is still a good trade, if only because of the fact that they didn't screw up with their own draft pick or waste the lower amount of cap space they expected to have.

The trade is a home run. Right now. Regardless of what happens from here on out.

 

[RI Patriots fan]

Another fun quote from the Tampa Bay fan forum:


"Which was my point, you drooling imbecile. Smart teams (like the Patriots) give up little but ask a lot. Earlier this year they unloaded a fading vet OG on us and took a young TE who has 3 TDs in the last 4 games. The laughter is still echoing in Foxboro. Were you too busy stroking your Licht doll to notice? Watch what Casillas does in NE."


http://www.bucschat.com/forum/4-tampa-bay-buccaneers-forum/



I can just feel the love for the Mankins trade on their side.

 

[shmessy]

As for the trade, I'm still going to withhold ultimate judgement on it (as I said before) until I see the end result. That's all that matters. The interior OL is playing very, very well right now but if they **** the bed in the playoffs, then was the trade still a good one?

Yes.

Because they **** the bed LAST year in the playoffs. Even if the OL performs the same as last year in the playoffs, at least they got a good #2 TE, $7 million in additional cap space and a 4th round pick out of it.

Post Edit: I see Oswlek said basically the same response a couple of posts earlier......

 

[AzPatsFan]

-Every game provides evidence about this team ...not just wins.
-The LOS for NE is an issue whether you choose to open your eyes or not.
-Teams that succeed in the playoffs own the LOS
-NE lost the LOS battle vs Denver in AFC Championship game last year
Big test Sunday......wish the trade deadline was next Tuesday

The Offensive line is still in transition even as the record shows the sacks yielded have come way down. Now Brady has a pocket to step into once again.

But whether the LOS is won or lost this mid-season weekend, the issue won't be settled until the Playoffs.

This OL with continue to strengthen with continuity and experience. Maybe big body Flemming might take Wendell's spot too, but I doubt it. The half season for experimentation is about over. Knighton won't be able to manhandle Stork like he did to undersized Wendell.

The Defensive line will continue to strengthen with the return of Sealver and Jones, additional experience for Casey and a fitting in of Branch and Easley. Don't forget that the defensive LOS was contested last season, without Vince, Kelly, Casey or Branch.

 

[RIpats88]

I think as the weeks go on, Tim wright will only get more involved in the offense as he knows the playbook more. He had a pretty solid game last week. I think the Denver game is going to be a big game for him as the matchups appear to be the TE's against linebackers.

 

[Ring 6]

In order to get open, one has to know the route tree system.

Better question is how many snaps has he been playing to get that many receptions.

He's a work in progress.

If he doesn't know the playbook and route tree by now, my expectations for him are very low.

 

[Ring 6]

I think Wrights lack of receptions have been more that they are managing his snaps. Part because they take him out on a lot of running downs and downs where they want an extra blocker. Part because he is still learning the play book. Wright does seem to be making the most of his snaps. He just isn't in the game a lot.

I don't watch the guy all the time, but I don't see him having a lot of problems getting open. Maybe on some plays, but he has been difficult for several LBs to cover.

Again, if he doesn't know the playbook by now, I have little hope for him.
My point was that catching 17 of 18 is not the correct metric to determine he should get more passes thrown to him. His ability to get open would determine that.

 

[Ring 6]

For an immobile pocket passer who is the GOAT when given time in the pocket? A franchise caliber guard is absolutely worth 8% of the team's cap space. That's why the team gave him the deal they did.

You are appealing to authority and saying the same man who decided he wasn't worth his contract today proved he was worth it years ago when he signed him to it.
Fail.

 

[patfanken]

If he doesn't know the playbook and route tree by now, my expectations for him are very low.

I think patience is warranted. If you think about it, Wright has been here 2 months now. Relatively speaking that puts him at the end of August on his Pats offense learning curve....and without the benefits of OTA's. If you want to compare, think about the Brandon LaFell we were seeing at the end of August and he HAD the advantage of OTA's. No one was singing paeans of praise for LaFell back then.

Wright is likely going to be a "pick your spot" kind of player for the Pats this year. A tool in Josh's tool box to be used mainly when specific match ups present themselves. Against some teams he will have a bigger impact.. Against others, not so much. I would suspect that THIS week he might be a key element to the Pats game plan.

At this point he's more of a glorified big WR than a true TE. I have expectations for Wright. Expectations that will likely grow in small increments as the season progresses. All I know is that his catching skills have been impressive thus far, and he seems to have above average quickness and speed for a TE. However as far as his route running and ability to get separation, and his ability to absorb this complex offense, I have no clue. We shall see.

 

[Ring 6]

I think patience is warranted. If you think about it, Wright has been here 2 months now. Relatively speaking that puts him at the end of August on his Pats offense learning curve....and without the benefits of OTA's. If you want to compare, think about the Brandon LaFell we were seeing at the end of August and he HAD the advantage of OTA's. No one was singing paeans of praise for LaFell back then.

Wright is likely going to be a "pick your spot" kind of player for the Pats this year. A tool in Josh's tool box to be used mainly when specific match ups present themselves. Against some teams he will have a bigger impact.. Against others, not so much. I would suspect that THIS week he might be a key element to the Pats game plan.

At this point he's more of a glorified big WR than a true TE. I have expectations for Wright. Expectations that will likely grow in small increments as the season progresses. All I know is that his catching skills have been impressive thus far, and he seems to have above average quickness and speed for a TE. However as far as his route running and ability to get separation, and his ability to absorb this complex offense, I have no clue. We shall see.

I agree with all of that, but not that there could be any way he is playing less because he still hasn't learned the playbook.

 

[Rob0729]

Again, if he doesn't know the playbook by now, I have little hope for him.
My point was that catching 17 of 18 is not the correct metric to determine he should get more passes thrown to him. His ability to get open would determine that.

It took Jabar Gaffney over ten weeks to learn the playbook from when he signed and he started to make a contribution (Gaffeny was signed in week 6 of 2006 and didn't really hit until the playoffs where he had back to back 100 yard games). So why would you lose faith in Wright after 8 weeks?

As for his ability to get open, his catches to reps ratio is outstanding especially since he is not a primary option. So when he is on the field, he looks to be getting open a lot. The thing is they are managing his reps for whatever reason whether it is that they are easing him into the offense, he is still learning the offense, the formations they need to run exclude him, or whatever. The one thing is clear that when he is on the field he has been effective for the most part.

 

[Oswlek]

I agree with all of that, but not that there could be any way he is playing less because he still hasn't learned the playbook.

Learn? Or master enough to be worth playing over someone else? Different concepts altogether.

I think it is possible, nay, probable, that the team has larger plans for young Mr. Wright than his current snap allotment indicates.

 

[Ring 6]

It took Jabar Gaffney over ten weeks to learn the playbook from when he signed and he started to make a contribution (Gaffeny was signed in week 6 of 2006 and didn't really hit until the playoffs where he had back to back 100 yard games). So why would you lose faith in Wright after 8 weeks?

Come on. Please show me documentattion that says after 4,6,7,9, etc weeks on the team Jabar Gaffney didn't know the playbook. That is made up, which is my point.

As for his ability to get open, his catches to reps ratio is outstanding especially since he is not a primary option. So when he is on the field, he looks to be getting open a lot. The thing is they are managing his reps for whatever reason whether it is that they are easing him into the offense, he is still learning the offense, the formations they need to run exclude him, or whatever. The one thing is clear that when he is on the field he has been effective for the most part.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. He doesn't play a lot. If he were uncoverable he would be playing a lot. When he does get open he catches the ball.
My point still stands that the percentage of throws resulting in catches are not the metric that would determine he should be thrown to more often. I don't know how you can disagree with that.
If you want to look up snaps played and do some kind of analysis to show he gets open a lot, feel free, but you thinking he does a lot with his reps is simply a guess.
What are his targets per rep, and how does that compare to others.
To state that he is not a primary option is shaky at best also, because you simply do not know. It certainly is possible that there is a 2 TE package specifically designed to make him the target due to a mismatch, and the passes he is catching are because of that, and the reason it is being used in a limited fashion is because it won't work except as a tendency breaker. (See the short yardage TDs) where they CLEARLY use Gronk as a heavily covered decoy to free up Wright.

 

[Ring 6]

Learn? Or master enough to be worth playing over someone else? Different concepts altogether.

I think it is possible, nay, probable, that the team has larger plans for young Mr. Wright than his current snap allotment indicates.

How do you differentiate between learn and master a playbook?
Its pretty simply, you either know what to do on the play call or you don't. If he doesn't know by now, that is a horrible failure on his part.

His use will depend on matchups, as well as the quality of his play, most likely his blocking I would imagine, since the point of our 2 TE mismatch offense is we make them treat a guy who is as much WR as TE as if he was a TE. If he can't block he is just a big WR lined up closer to the T.

 

[Oswlek]

How do you differentiate between learn and master a playbook?
Its pretty simply, you either know what to do on the play call or you don't. If he doesn't know by now, that is a horrible failure on his part.

I already differentiated it. There is a world of difference between knowing and doing consistently enough for the team to feel he is one of the best 3-4 receiving targets on the play.

 

[grux]

It probably cost the team 2 games, certainly cost them at least one, and hasn't resulted in anything particularly positive. The Patriots now field an OL that still has its 2 worst players from last year, but is missing its best player, and Wright has been absolutely nothing to right home about.

Yes, that's freakin' terrible.

Please. Those were team losses that wouldn't have been prevented because of the addition of one player.

 

[Ring 6]

I already differentiated it. There is a world of difference between knowing and doing consistently enough for the team to feel he is one of the best 3-4 receiving targets on the play.

I don't think there is.
We are talking about not putting a guy on the field because he doesn't know the plays.
You have created some kind of idea that there are different levels of knowing.
He either knows 100% of them or he doesn't.
If he doesn't by now he is probably a moron and shouldn't be on the field. I give him credit for being smart enough to know the plays. You seem to think he is challenged in the intelligence department. I hope you are wrong.