The reality of the Patriots and the cap

[Tunescribe]

By the way, you left off Bledsoe

An incredibly obvious omission. And, Terry Glenn! I'll go back and add them.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

This is a good thread. I should've read this thread before starting another, similar one elsewhere. But the below list, I believe, puts the Patriots in a unique spot vs. the rest of the league.

What I posted:

Yes, I know that in each individual case, the re-signing cost was too prohibitive or the player copped an attitude, etc., etc., that did not fit the Belipioli model. (Exception here being Curtis Martin.) All teams have lost talented players to big-money free agent contracts. But this is a pretty mindboggling list of players that I doubt any other team can match, as far as guys with something left in the tank who've flown the coop. One can't help but fantasize what it would be like if all these guys were still wearing blue and silver. Have I forgotten anyone? Of course, the league continues to debate the Patriots' front office philosophy re., "system" vs. "talent," yet our three Lombardis speak for themselves. Still, I feel this season puts the Belipioli model to test like no other.

Ty Law

Lawyer Milloy

Willie McGinest

David Givens

Damien Woody

Joe Andruzzi

Adam Vinatieri

David Patten

Tom Ashworth

Terry Glenn

Drew Bledsoe

Greg Spires

Curtis Martin

Martin was unsignable by this franchise and he left the Pete Carroll Patriots to follow another guy named Bill, and his sidekick also named Bill, to that wasteland known as The Meadowlands where he may hobble through one more season never winning a thing. Bledsoe didn't leave, he was traded for a far more useful #1 pick. And I thank God every day since that I don't have to re-live my nightmare fantasy about what it would be like if we could have hung on to old Drew and his phony $100M deal...Patten's been an injury bust since departing which he well might have been here as well, AV will be missed but whether the loss seriously impacts the team remains to be seen, Ty was definitely missed but the fact that he still hasn't earned what we offered him in 2004 through 2007 in his latest contracts speaks volumes about that decision - and again in 2006 he remained unsignable by this franchise because neither he nor the idiots who represent him can comprehend simple math, Willie and David may be missed this year but the money not spent on them can be used to offset that down the road, as it was with Lawyer who has also struggled to live up to his hype and paycheck from any organization since 2002. Lack of turnover leads not to multiple Superbowls, it leads to an entitlement mentality and complacency.

Let's hope the Belipioli model doesn't settle into a perennial 10-6 team that can't make it past the second round of the playoffs. I also hope we don't look back on this management system years down the road and realize that the missing key ingredients were Charlie and Romeo.

Belichick is on record saying if you are not getting better in this league you are getting worse. He parts company with guys he believes cannot get better, particularly when they want to be paid more than they are currently honestly worth.

And when all is said and done, anyone who looks back on the Belioli years and second guesses where they may have gone wrong or might have done better is just spoiled jerk.

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

It is easier to count on the roster the players BB signed in FA from other teams than it is to count the players he drafted or traded for with draft picks.

Harrison, Vrabel, Colvin being the "big" signings. Dillon doesn't count as a FA signing because BB traded for him. Caldwell, Hawkins, Chad Scott are the typical sparse FA signings he picks up on the cheap. THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE TEAM IS DRAFTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is the key to success, not FA signings.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Someone here posted:

We are worried about CB depth
We are worried about WR depth
We are worried about LB depth.

There is one word common to this discussion. D-E-P-T-H. We are worried about who plays after we lose the starters, or AND FIRST RESERVE, in the case of all three categories.

Who is first reserve at CB?. Depends. Lets say Samuel and Hobbs start; then is is Wilson or Gay or Scott or Warfield? The only thing they all have in common is they are ex-starters in the League!

Who is first reserve at WR? Reche Caldwell, if Branch and Brown are the starters, and then a high draft pick rookie. We're actually complaining about Bam Childress or Stone as the third backup!

Who is the third reserve at ILB? Probably Vrabel. Who is the fourth? Gardner. Who is the fifth? Davis. What do they all have in common? They have all been starters in th league! The third reserve Davis, was a starter in a Super bowl for the Rams.

Who is the third reserve OLB? Chad Brown or TBC maybe Mincey. A multi year pro bowler now with a full TC under his belt, or a 4th year guy who has paid the price for the DE to LB conversion. And Mincey makes three. We're actually worried about the fourth or fifth OLB.


What about teams that have actual holes and are depending on rookies to Play, you know, starting positions? How 'bout them Colts? Two Guards and a LB will be virtual rooks with no playing experience, certain to replace guys who are walking "holes".

We should want or need such problems!?!?


"I complained I had no shoes, until I met a man who had no feet".

 

[Miguel]

If Dan Snyder was an average joe, he would be in credit card debt. That's not the Patriots style. They would make sacrifices but still live comfortably.

Thread hijack - I hate the credit card analogy.

The average Joe does not work at a job that increases his salary at close to the same rate that the salary cap has increased in its existence or is projected to increase in the next few year.

The cap has been in existence since 1994. It has gone from $34.6 million in 1994 to $102 million in 2006 so it has almost tripled in 12 years. The cap is projected to go another 45% to 65% in the next 4 to 6 years.

If the average Joe's salary almost tripled in the past 12 years and is projected to go up by half again in the next 4 to 6 years, then the average Joe is doing pretty well.

Rant over

 

[spacecrime]

"I complained I had no shoes, until I met a man who had no feet".

Or as someone else said, "Never criticize a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes. Then criticize all you want, because you'll be a mile away and he won't have any shoes to run after you with."

 

[spacecrime]

This is a good thread. I should've read this thread before starting another, similar one elsewhere. But the below list, I believe, puts the Patriots in a unique spot vs. the rest of the league.

Surely you don't mean that other teams have not lost more and better players than we have?

Turnover in teh NFL is tremendous. Look at any roster and compare it to 2001.

Look at the Ravens. Two years after the Superbowl, the Ravens cut or didn't resign (if memory serves) 19 of 22 starters. In one year. We kept 19 of 22 starters this year. Hardly a comparison.

The Titans and other teams have purged, also, more in a single year than your 5 years of BB infamy.

Some of your players were good but not star quality. Andruzzi wasn't exactly a hghly sought after guy when we picked him up. Neither was Patten, Ashworth and a few others.

Calling Bledsoe and Glenn losses that reflect badly on BB and ones he should have been avoided is so silly that no response is necessary.

I did regret the loss of Milloy at the time, but it didn't drive us down to a perrrenial 10-6 team. We went 14-2 the next two years after losing him.

Has everyone forgotten the Pats of 15 years ago? Or have you all been fans only since 2001?

 

[PatsRI]

Thread hijack - I hate the credit card analogy.

The average Joe does not work at a job that increases his salary at close to the same rate that the salary cap has increased in its existence or is projected to increase in the next few year.

The cap has been in existence since 1994. It has gone from $34.6 million in 1994 to $102 million in 2006 so it has almost tripled in 12 years. The cap is projected to go another 45% to 65% in the next 4 to 6 years.

If the average Joe's salary almost tripled in the past 12 years and is projected to go up by half again in the next 4 to 6 years, then the average Joe is doing pretty well.

Rant over

I don't know if anyone else posted it but Miguel did you hear Dale Arnold mention what a great web page you had the other day on EE? He referred a caller to it saying it was one of the best cap pages out there.

 

[Miguel]

I don't know if anyone else posted it but Miguel did you hear Dale Arnold mention what a great web page you had the other day on EE? He referred a caller to it saying it was one of the best cap pages out there.

FYI - I do not live in MA so I rarely hear EEI.

Thanks, Dale Arnold, for the compliment.

 

[mgteich]

Yup, before free agency, the draft we worried about CB depth (and a starter),
WR depth (and a starter), LB depth (and a starter), safety depth (and a starter until Harrison was back). We didn't sign Law, Givens or McGinist.

We solved our problems with Warfield, Jackson, Caldwell, Gardner, Chad Brown, Hawkins and tebucky Jones. We made no major acquisitions (we have in the past) and chose to not spend $10M because we just couldn't find anyone who could help the team. We certainly don't need to save cap money for next year and the year after.

How well we think we did seems to depend on how much kool-aid we drink.

Someone here posted:

We are worried about CB depth
We are worried about WR depth
We are worried about LB depth.

There is one word common to this discussion. D-E-P-T-H. We are worried about who plays after we lose the starters, or AND FIRST RESERVE, in the case of all three categories.

Who is first reserve at CB?. Depends. Lets say Samuel and Hobbs start; then is is Wilson or Gay or Scott or Warfield? The only thing they all have in common is they are ex-starters in the League!

Who is first reserve at WR? Reche Caldwell, if Branch and Brown are the starters, and then a high draft pick rookie. We're actually complaining about Bam Childress or Stone as the third backup!

Who is the third reserve at ILB? Probably Vrabel. Who is the fourth? Gardner. Who is the fifth? Davis. What do they all have in common? They have all been starters in th league! The third reserve Davis, was a starter in a Super bowl for the Rams.

Who is the third reserve OLB? Chad Brown or TBC maybe Mincey. A multi year pro bowler now with a full TC under his belt, or a 4th year guy who has paid the price for the DE to LB conversion. And Mincey makes three. We're actually worried about the fourth or fifth OLB.


What about teams that have actual holes and are depending on rookies to Play, you know, starting positions? How 'bout them Colts? Two Guards and a LB will be virtual rooks with no playing experience, certain to replace guys who are walking "holes".

We should want or need such problems!?!?


"I complained I had no shoes, until I met a man who had no feet".