The Pats Have a Coaching Problem

[TriplecHamp]

aware me

10char: GJDM

sending a prime minister your way.

 

[n1e]

aware me

10char: GJDM

dave man good job, you're now aware.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

Where was Ninkovich all game?

He wasnt going anywhere against Oher, who's really good at holding

 

[manxman2601]

Here's the best CBs in the NFL and where they were taken in the draft:


Darrelle Revis - 1st, pick 14

Nnamdi Asomugha - 1st, pick 31

Champ Bailey - 1st, pick 7

Leon Hall - 1st, pick 18

Carlos Rogers - 1st Round Pick 9

Corey Webster - 2, 43

Drayton Florence - 2, 46

Jonathan Joseph - 1, 24

Charles Woodson - 1, 4

Brandon Flowers - 2, 39

Joe Haden - 1, 7

Patrick Peterson - 1, 5

Not in order but list taken from Bleacher Report

As you can see, if you want the best, you need to invest in the best. We have but it's still only four picks. Chung has proven to be OK, we don't know about Dowling and there's one bust (Butler) and one probable bust in McCourty. In fact, of the list, only four out of the twelve were taken below McCourty. It might just be as simple as the fact that we are always picking late in the draft that limits our ability to find good CB's.

Edit: OK, realised this was an outdated list and that the likes of Ladarius Webb (3rd round), Courtland Finnegan (7th round) and Brent Grimes (undrafted) poo poo my theory a little.

 

[nekromantique]

Pass Rush deserves some of the blame.


Where was Ninkovich all game?

Actually, where has Ninkovich been all season?!?!

DE doesnt seem to suit him. Expect his snap count to diminish a bit.

personally think he likes playing with a bit more space at LB....definitely looks better there.

i wouldnt mind them simply switching him with hightower, or cunningham. both seem more comfortable on the line.

 

[BananaRepublican]

Add Brandon Meriweather, Terrence Wheatley, Jonathan Wilhite to the list of defensive backs.

I thought Randall Gay was going to be very good. Now that was speed.

 

[BananaRepublican]

His Rookie year was an absolute fluke, you DON'T fall off that bad from your rookie to sophomore to junior year. You SHOULD be improving.

Not if some coach ruins you. Not if some coach asks you to do things you aren't designed to do.

I am just raising the possibility, not claiming any knowledge. They can't seem to find anybody who can do what they want to do, so maybe what they want to do is at fault.

 

[Alfred]

And it’s in the secondary. I guess Josh Boyer’s the cornerback coach now? Whoever that is. I think he had been the defensive backs coach, so maybe that’s a demotion. Regardless, the reality is since Eric Mangini (I know, I know) left, the Pats secondary has been pretty scary, and I’m not so sure it’s a lack of talent.

Consider: what’s the one consistent thread with Patriot players? They improve. Hell, in some areas such as the offensive line, we’re confident that if the Pats can find five humans, then Dante will “coach them up” into a solid unit.

Not in the secondary. There, you find guys going backwards. Eugene Wilson: rising star! Fell off a cliff. Darius Butler. McCourty. Now Dowling. ESPN Boston today:

New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

“…Butler was a second-round pick of the Patriots in 2009 who contributed his rookie season (14 games, 5 starts, 3 interceptions) and started the first two games of the 2010 season before being benched and hardly contributing after that.

"Drafted in the second round of the 2011 draft, cornerback Ras-I Dowling could very well be following a similar path...”

Can’t say I have the solution, but it sure seems like there’s a problem.

You left out the weakest link, #24

 

[Alfred]

I thought McCourty played a more than decent game until he gave up the costly DPI.

bad call almost no contact..Regular officials would not have called it, especially at that stage of the game and the position of the ball

 

[jsull87]

Give Seattle's secondary coach a blank check.

Definitely this... their DB's looked V good against a good O.

 

[ausbacker]

bad call almost no contact..Regular officials would not have called it, especially at that stage of the game and the position of the ball

It wasn't a bad call, it was a clear case of DPI.

Regarding the list about the best CB's in the league, you can add the entire Seattle secondary to the list.

 

[PittPatriot]

McCourty's weak attempt at tackling Pitta at the 7 yard line was pitiful - a complete lack of effort. I am sure he and Gregory were embarrassed in front of the team during Tuesday's film session.
I don't think Arrington is great, but I respect his playing hard on every down.

I can't buy the argument that our DB coach(es) suck because most of our CB's leave and end up out of the league soon thereafter (expect Asante). If that were the case, wouldn't some of these underachievers pick up and have success with other teams?
Hobbs is no longer in football (injuries and he kind of isn't that great).
Whilhite doesn't have a job.
Wheatley has not seen the field for 3 teams in 2 years since leaving and should be out of the league soon.
I am sure there are more I cannot think of. Maybe I am just cynical, but I have no evidence that Ras-I, Sterling, Alfonzo, or whoever else we plan on trotting out there won't have the same fate.

 

[ivanvamp]

It wasn't a bad call, it was a clear case of DPI.

The PI call on McCourty on that last drive was clearly correct. McCourty didn't even hint at a protest of the call.

The defensive holding call on the previous drive that got the Ravens out of a 3rd and 14 hole on their own 16, however, was completely phantom. McCourty, well, I'm not even sure he actually ever even *touched* the receiver on that play. That was a huge, huge call, and it was completely bogus.

 

[IllegalContact]

Getting a few hits on the QB would help these guys.

Mccourty fell apart after the phantom PI call. His self esteem is very fragile.

 

[Marqui]

Pass Rush deserves some of the blame.


Where was Ninkovich all game?

Actually, where has Ninkovich been all season?!?!

Don't worry, he's a secret superstar.

 

[letekro]

My theory is that they simply dont place enough importance on ball skills in the scouting process. They seem to fall in love with three-cone agility athletes. The result is a secondary that can stay with receivers but cannot make plays on the ball. Asante and Sterling Moore are two exceptions..

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

looks like bad drafting rather than bad coaching

yeah, that's part of the problem for certain. When you draft a real star there's no holding him down. But when you consider that star CB's are very few and far between, and very good ones not much more common, you have to start to wonder if BB and Co. get the max out of the players they have. Certainly other teams get more from their CB's and it certainly isn't always due to talent. One thing I hear from other Patriots fans is that our secondary plays too tentatively too often. They play soft out of fear of getting burned deep or is something else involved?

Confidence is necessary to be successful in the NFL, especially in a position like CB where you are on your own so often. I wonder if our CB's play tentatively partially because they are afraid of getting benched/cut etc.? They all know it can happen, look at Dowling right now. But the one benching that many young players must have felt, and felt with a sting, was Ridley getting sat down last year during the playoffs. Yes, he made a mistake, and yes he needed to get the message. But I'm sure many young dude's eyes opened pretty wide when they saw a guy who really have helped the team win not even see the field when it mattered most.

Now, benching can be effective but it must be accompanied equally by an infusion of trust and confidence building. Our DB's, mostly our CB's, look like they're worried out there, instead looking like the cream of crop athletes they are who can fly and hit like a guided missile. That's not to say they are stars but that any player who logs much time in the NFL has to be a top shelf talent. Dropping a key INT can be as costly as a fumble - see Monday night - and I wonder if guys like McCourty and Arrington got shaken by their failure to pick off Flacco because in the back of their mind was the worry BB's just going to slap them on the pine? I wonder if they are not fulfilling their maximum abilities because mentally they are too messed up by BB's heavy hand going unbalanced by a jolt of assurance from the coaches. We want tenacious, bold, assertive players - that's how the best teams play - and I don't see that enough from our DB's. It can't all be lack of talent.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Have to agree that it's bad drafting more than bad coaching. If coaching were the issue, at least some of these guys would go on to have success elsewhere. Considering that our last DB to perform well in another uniform was Asante (who obviously excelled here as well), the drafting theory is supported. Wheatley, Butler, Wilhite, Merriweather, and the rest have been JAG's at best elsewhere (the ones who are even still in the league).

Jury's still out on Dowling and McCourty but Sunday night did not look good for McCourty. And the fact that Dowling can't get on the field over some of these guys looks worse unless it's a hip issue. I guess Rosey's hip took a little over a season and a half for him to make any sort of impact so I'm willing to be a bit more patient with him as well.

 

[BelizePats]

This is an interesting thread and certainly deserves a closer look. Secondary issues or no pass rush is kind of like the chicken vs the egg debate. I don't know the answer. The secondary did not have a good game but in this instance I can say from what I saw, a lot of this can be attributed to zero pass rush. Flacco while not elite, has the skills to pick apart any defense, if he's got all the time in the world, which he certainly did on Sunday night.
McCourty had some decent moments against the Ravens which provide a glimmer of hope that he's not actually the human torch he was last year. But, in the same game he did not wrap up in the Pitta TD and even worse in my eyes, was his weak effort to push the receiver out of bounds on the 4th and 1 disputed measurement time out (yes, that was him. Take a look at his effort) On the final drive where his job was to not let anyone get behind him and on two different successive times, his man got behind him. To me it looks like the Pats are poor in the bump and run game with opposing receivers, which often leaves them out of position. But the alternative soft zone defense that they seem most comfortable playing, does not work that well either. What to do?
There is some merit in the franchises poor record in evaluating talent at the DB position. Over the past 5 years we have spent a significant number of high draft picks on the position and have gotten very little in the way of return. Why is that? Additionally, blitzing takes good athletes to be consistently successful at doing it. Did we even blitz once on Sunday night? What does that say, if anything? Does coaching play a role in the lack of development as the OP states? It probably does to some extent? But I do know that a legitimate pass rush on Sunday night would have helped enormously. Flacco had the cleanest uniform on the field at the end of the game. And that is unacceptable.

 

[Kontradiction]

It's not a coaching problem, it's a talent problem. Issues drafting corners that can play man coverage and safeties (Chung) that excel in coverage instead of playing in the box in run support are rearing their head here again. McCourty has improved, but he still has a ways to go. Arrington was absolutely brutal and deserved being benched. It's too early to give up on Dowling. If Dowling can take Arrington's spot and push him inside to cover the slot receiver (where he's best fit, IMO), the coverage should improve. They won't be world beaters back there, but they'll improve enough to stabilize the back end.