Welcome to PatsFans.com

The onside kick confusion....thoughts???

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Pats726, Nov 12, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Pats726

    Pats726 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    9,800
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    The onside kick by the Bills...this was a confusing play and I still do not understand exactly what happened...
    It seemed on first view like the kick was touched by a Patriot and bounced around..and recovered by the Bills. THAT was what I saw...on replay..it was a bit harder..it seemed like someone knocked the ball to the left where the Bills recovered..but if that was a Bill..it would have been a dead ball there...BUT if Izzo or Bruschi touched it first..it would have been live. AND on the replay it seemed possible that Izzo did..but with so many players..impossible to really tell. Moreover, with some Buffalo players ahead of the ball..is that not offside?? I mean granted the kick is slow...but if a player is a yard or two in front..is that not offside?? It was a good type of kick...now if they had kicked the ball harder and it clearly bounced back OFF a Patriot player..that would work...(Saw the Colts do that some 45+ years ago...and THAt worked fine. )
    It was just off because it wasn't clear and really seemed more like a Buffalo recovery.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2008
  2. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Messages:
    4,981
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    it was touched by a bills player before it went 10 yards......end of story
     
  3. Pats726

    Pats726 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    9,800
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    That's pretty obvious..REALLY?? although I doubt you could say which one did....lol...
     
  4. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Messages:
    4,981
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    nope, but it was obvious it hit a bills players leg on the replay........
     
  5. Hok

    Hok Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Messages:
    714
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    It bounced off of #38 Cory McIntyre's left hand. Watch the replay from the Patriots' end zone and it's clear as day.
     
  6. Mix

    Mix Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,333
    Likes Received:
    26
    Ratings:
    +69 / 0 / -0

    #24 Jersey

    This is correct.

    [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. PatsDeb

    PatsDeb PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2005
    Messages:
    5,065
    Likes Received:
    51
    Ratings:
    +99 / 0 / -1

    Thanks for the cool replay. It was very hard to see what happened from the stands and on the replay on the screen. It did indeed look like a Pats player had touched it first & hence fumbled, even though that was not the call (correctly as it turns out).
     
  8. TruthSeeker

    TruthSeeker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2004
    Messages:
    5,340
    Likes Received:
    97
    Ratings:
    +103 / 1 / -0

    Actually, the first thing the football hit was the hand of a Bills player (who was running next to the football and not paying any attention to it) and you had to look closely to see it. :)
     
  9. Koma

    Koma Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2008
    Messages:
    942
    Likes Received:
    47
    Ratings:
    +154 / 0 / -2

    A few years ago, didn't the league change the rules limiting the number of players who could line up on either side of the kicker? I think the goal was to reduce injuries by having few players competing for the ball (I believe the rule went into effect the season after Kellen Winslow broke his leg during an onside kick).

    Instead of kicking the ball to the left or right, the Bills lined up 5 players on either side of the kicker (which they can do) and then kicked the ball down the middle. They ended up with more bodies colliding than they did before the rule change.

    I'm not saying it's wrong, but rather pointing out how the league tried to make things safer and coaches still find a way to create the same chaos under the new rules.
     
  10. brdmaverick

    brdmaverick In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    2,979
    Likes Received:
    31
    Ratings:
    +72 / 3 / -0

    #32 Jersey

    The refs got the call right (don't know how, but they did).

    I was very intrigued by the Bills onside kick strategy. I thought it was brilliant. Mass chaos, and even if the Bills did touch it first (which they did), they certainly made it hard on the refs to make the right call.
     
  11. CheerforTom

    CheerforTom Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Messages:
    919
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    To be fair that isn't conclusive since you can't see where he is on the field (and therefore how far the ball had gone), but with everything in mind it was the right call to make.
     
  12. unoriginal

    unoriginal In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Messages:
    3,284
    Likes Received:
    87
    Ratings:
    +282 / 5 / -1

    Yep. Though one benefit about making the lines even on each side of the kicker is that, on the middle onside kicks you'd have to use, the kicker has much less room to make the ball skip up, and can't kick the ball parallel to the scrimmage line.

    Consequently it is a little easier for the receiving team to defend themselves from the onside wedge. The players in that front line won't have to leap and expose their bodies to collisions, and balls that aren't perfectly timed and kicked between 10-15 yards will be easier to recover, either long or short.

    Whereas under the old onside system, with the 30 yard acute kicking angle and player overload, you were virtually guaranteed a demolition derby unless the kicker just whiffed or pulled it.
     
  13. SaCaCh

    SaCaCh Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    1,173
    Likes Received:
    16
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    #87 Jersey

    Huh? the recovery was within the ten yards, so it didn't matter how far the ball had gone. All the refs discussed was whether a Bill had touched it first...which it is shown here that they did.
     
  14. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Messages:
    21,449
    Likes Received:
    482
    Ratings:
    +1,299 / 18 / -8

    #3 Jersey

    If by "recovery" you mean "touched by the Bills," then you are correct. But if a player on the kicking team gets the first touch on the ball within 10 yards, it makes no difference how far it goes--they lose the ability to recover the ball (because, even if the receiving team recovers and fumbles, there's a prior penalty).
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2008
  15. Pats726

    Pats726 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    9,800
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    Thanks...that super slow replay says it all...but one has to admit that it was NOT that clear...a really good strategy..as I said..I saw the Colts do something quite interesting..NOT using a tee and bounding the ball AT an opposing player..if it hits them and bounds back NOT gone 10 yards, it's a free ball..Still not sure why it wasn't offside with players ahead of the ball..CLEARLY offsides...Thanks though...it was an interesting play and at the time..quite confusing.
     
  16. SpiderFox53

    SpiderFox53 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2007
    Messages:
    532
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    To be offsides, they have to be in front of the ball WHEN IT IS KICKED, which they weren't. As far as the call went, the refs did get it right but I don't know how. Which ref was the one that saw it, as it was only visible from the Pats endzone cam on TV?

    They only showed the replay that shows it hitting the Bills player once on the TV and the announcers missed it.
     
  17. T-ShirtDynasty

    T-ShirtDynasty Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2005
    Messages:
    3,545
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    Nice job Mix.

    Huh? I thought you HAD to use the regulation kicking tee on kick-offs?
     
  18. Pats726

    Pats726 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    9,800
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    in those days one didn't...and maybe the rule has changed so that you HAVE TO use a tee..I remember that theyput it flat on the ground and it had a lot of spin and such. Interesting that a play from 45 plus years ago I remember quite in detail.
     
  19. T-ShirtDynasty

    T-ShirtDynasty Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2005
    Messages:
    3,545
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    Oh, 45 years ago... sorry, wasn't paying attention. :ugh:
     
  20. Sivy

    Sivy In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2007
    Messages:
    3,079
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +12 / 0 / -0

    number 38, whoever that is.

    Edit: Guess I should read other post before I respond.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2008
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>