The onside kick confusion....thoughts???

[Pats726]

The onside kick by the Bills...this was a confusing play and I still do not understand exactly what happened...
It seemed on first view like the kick was touched by a Patriot and bounced around..and recovered by the Bills. THAT was what I saw...on replay..it was a bit harder..it seemed like someone knocked the ball to the left where the Bills recovered..but if that was a Bill..it would have been a dead ball there...BUT if Izzo or Bruschi touched it first..it would have been live. AND on the replay it seemed possible that Izzo did..but with so many players..impossible to really tell. Moreover, with some Buffalo players ahead of the ball..is that not offside?? I mean granted the kick is slow...but if a player is a yard or two in front..is that not offside?? It was a good type of kick...now if they had kicked the ball harder and it clearly bounced back OFF a Patriot player..that would work...(Saw the Colts do that some 45+ years ago...and THAt worked fine. )
It was just off because it wasn't clear and really seemed more like a Buffalo recovery.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

it was touched by a bills player before it went 10 yards......end of story

 

[Pats726]

it was touched by a bills player before it went 10 yards......end of story

That's pretty obvious..REALLY?? although I doubt you could say which one did....lol...

 

[tanked_as_usual]

That's pretty obvious..REALLY?? although I doubt you could say which one did....lol...

nope, but it was obvious it hit a bills players leg on the replay........

 

[Hok]

That's pretty obvious..REALLY?? although I doubt you could say which one did....lol...

It bounced off of #38 Cory McIntyre's left hand. Watch the replay from the Patriots' end zone and it's clear as day.

 

[Mix]

It bounced off of #38 Cory McIntyre's left hand. Watch the replay from the Patriots' end zone and it's clear as day.

This is correct.

 

[PatsDeb]

This is correct.

Thanks for the cool replay. It was very hard to see what happened from the stands and on the replay on the screen. It did indeed look like a Pats player had touched it first & hence fumbled, even though that was not the call (correctly as it turns out).

 

[TruthSeeker]

nope, but it was obvious it hit a bills players leg on the replay........

Actually, the first thing the football hit was the hand of a Bills player (who was running next to the football and not paying any attention to it) and you had to look closely to see it.

 

[Koma]

A few years ago, didn't the league change the rules limiting the number of players who could line up on either side of the kicker? I think the goal was to reduce injuries by having few players competing for the ball (I believe the rule went into effect the season after Kellen Winslow broke his leg during an onside kick).

Instead of kicking the ball to the left or right, the Bills lined up 5 players on either side of the kicker (which they can do) and then kicked the ball down the middle. They ended up with more bodies colliding than they did before the rule change.

I'm not saying it's wrong, but rather pointing out how the league tried to make things safer and coaches still find a way to create the same chaos under the new rules.

 

[brdmaverick]

The refs got the call right (don't know how, but they did).

I was very intrigued by the Bills onside kick strategy. I thought it was brilliant. Mass chaos, and even if the Bills did touch it first (which they did), they certainly made it hard on the refs to make the right call.

 

[CheerforTom]

This is correct.

To be fair that isn't conclusive since you can't see where he is on the field (and therefore how far the ball had gone), but with everything in mind it was the right call to make.

 

[unoriginal]

A few years ago, didn't the league change the rules limiting the number of players who could line up on either side of the kicker? I think the goal was to reduce injuries by having few players competing for the ball (I believe the rule went into effect the season after Kellen Winslow broke his leg during an onside kick).

Instead of kicking the ball to the left or right, the Bills lined up 5 players on either side of the kicker (which they can do) and then kicked the ball down the middle. They ended up with more bodies colliding than they did before the rule change.

I'm not saying it's wrong, but rather pointing out how the league tried to make things safer and coaches still find a way to create the same chaos under the new rules.

Yep. Though one benefit about making the lines even on each side of the kicker is that, on the middle onside kicks you'd have to use, the kicker has much less room to make the ball skip up, and can't kick the ball parallel to the scrimmage line.

Consequently it is a little easier for the receiving team to defend themselves from the onside wedge. The players in that front line won't have to leap and expose their bodies to collisions, and balls that aren't perfectly timed and kicked between 10-15 yards will be easier to recover, either long or short.

Whereas under the old onside system, with the 30 yard acute kicking angle and player overload, you were virtually guaranteed a demolition derby unless the kicker just whiffed or pulled it.

 

[SaCaCh]

To be fair that isn't conclusive since you can't see where he is on the field (and therefore how far the ball had gone), but with everything in mind it was the right call to make.

Huh? the recovery was within the ten yards, so it didn't matter how far the ball had gone. All the refs discussed was whether a Bill had touched it first...which it is shown here that they did.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Huh? the recovery was within the ten yards, so it didn't matter how far the ball had gone. All the refs discussed was whether a Bill had touched it first...which it is shown here that they did.

If by "recovery" you mean "touched by the Bills," then you are correct. But if a player on the kicking team gets the first touch on the ball within 10 yards, it makes no difference how far it goes--they lose the ability to recover the ball (because, even if the receiving team recovers and fumbles, there's a prior penalty).

 

[Pats726]

It bounced off of #38 Cory McIntyre's left hand. Watch the replay from the Patriots' end zone and it's clear as day.

Thanks...that super slow replay says it all...but one has to admit that it was NOT that clear...a really good strategy..as I said..I saw the Colts do something quite interesting..NOT using a tee and bounding the ball AT an opposing player..if it hits them and bounds back NOT gone 10 yards, it's a free ball..Still not sure why it wasn't offside with players ahead of the ball..CLEARLY offsides...Thanks though...it was an interesting play and at the time..quite confusing.

 

[SpiderFox53]

Thanks...that super slow replay says it all...but one has to admit that it was NOT that clear...a really good strategy..as I said..I saw the Colts do something quite interesting..NOT using a tee and bounding the ball AT an opposing player..if it hits them and bounds back NOT gone 10 yards, it's a free ball..Still not sure why it wasn't offside with players ahead of the ball..CLEARLY offsides...Thanks though...it was an interesting play and at the time..quite confusing.

To be offsides, they have to be in front of the ball WHEN IT IS KICKED, which they weren't. As far as the call went, the refs did get it right but I don't know how. Which ref was the one that saw it, as it was only visible from the Pats endzone cam on TV?

They only showed the replay that shows it hitting the Bills player once on the TV and the announcers missed it.

 

[T-ShirtDynasty]

This is correct.

Nice job Mix.

Thanks...that super slow replay says it all...but one has to admit that it was NOT that clear...a really good strategy..as I said..I saw the Colts do something quite interesting..NOT using a tee

Huh? I thought you HAD to use the regulation kicking tee on kick-offs?

 

[Pats726]

Nice job Mix.



Huh? I thought you HAD to use the regulation kicking tee on kick-offs?

in those days one didn't...and maybe the rule has changed so that you HAVE TO use a tee..I remember that theyput it flat on the ground and it had a lot of spin and such. Interesting that a play from 45 plus years ago I remember quite in detail.

 

[T-ShirtDynasty]

in those days one didn't...and maybe the rule has changed so that you HAVE TO use a tee..I remember that theyput it flat on the ground and it had a lot of spin and such. Interesting that a play from 45 plus years ago I remember quite in detail.

Oh, 45 years ago... sorry, wasn't paying attention. :ugh:

 

[Sivy]

That's pretty obvious..REALLY?? although I doubt you could say which one did....lol...

number 38, whoever that is.

Edit: Guess I should read other post before I respond.