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The Official 'Trade Brady' Debate Thread - Do Not Start Another One


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And Culpepper came back in a year and stunk. It took Griese that much time to be effective. They could play sooner but they were NOT themselves, merely a shadow of themselves is what I am saying...

and tom brady is a million times better, smarter and more motivated then they ever were.
 
Originally Posted by Jafo
you freakin idiots, you dont trade brady. You trade cassell while his stock is high, cause this guy is a flash in the pan nothin.

I dont think Cassel is a flash in the pan, hes a hard worker and a smart football player but I do agree you keep Tom Brady.

BTW Carson Palmer has elbow or shoulder problems not related to his knee is the reason why he has problems this year and is out.
 
Being smart has nothing to do with health and recovering from a major medical problem.

I still think BOTH will be on the Pats in 2009. Miquel says we will have about $24 million in cap space with 39 signed and no big names unsigned. You can sign the next 15 for ten million easily. That leaves an absurd amount for franshising Cassel in 2009. If you need a few renegotiations it does not seem to br impossible.

Now 2010 is different... Big names will be coming up, but not in 2009. Besides Bill will know what's what by then. Brady wil be back, fully healed; KC will have some more experience, on which to evaluate him.

The new draftees wil have played for a year. Then they will know what they need to do in FA. Then they can decide what to do with Matt Cassel. :cool:
 
And Culpepper came back in a year and stunk. It took Griese that much time to be effective. They could play sooner but they were NOT themselves, merely a shadow of themselves is what I am saying...


Culpepper was himself, just like today - that shadow is what he is and it has nothing to do with his knees... Griese was an inconsistent JAG, never in Brady's league, not that Culpepper was either... Palmer came back in 9 months and was fine, ditto Rivers and he's doing pretty well.

It never ceases to amaze me how many of you still don't get that. Being smart has everything to do with it here. That's why Brady isn't rehabbing in a parking lot, why he has 3 rings and 2 SB MVP's and a league MVP long overdue and he was a first ballot lock for the HOF at 30.

Bill isn't going to spend $14M+ on QB insurance. He develops backups for that. Any more than he's going to tag Cassel again in 2009 - for $17.5M - to flip him after sitting on the bench for a year, so he'd walk then as an UFA and an enormous waste of cap. Up to now he's represented tremendous value, and value is Bill's mantra. His value can increase as a tag and trade, it plumets as a $14M backup.
 
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Culpepper was himself, just like today - that shadow is what he is and it has nothing to do with his knees... Griese was an inconsistent JAG, never in Brady's league, not that Culpepper was either... Palmer came back in 9 months and was fine, ditto Rivers and he's doing pretty well.

It never ceases to amaze me how many of you still don't get that. Being smart has everything to do with it here. That's why Brady isn't rehabbing in a parking lot, why he has 3 rings and 2 SB MVP's and a league MVP long overdue and he was a first ballot lock for the HOF at 30.

Bill isn't going to spend $14M+ on QB insurance. He develops backups for that. Any more than he's going to tag Cassel again in 2009 - for $17.5M - to flip him after sitting on the bench for a year, so he'd walk then as an UFA and an enormous waste of cap. Up to now he's represented tremendous value, and value is Bill's mantra. His value can increase as a tag and trade, it plumets as a $14M backup.

It soars as a sometimes starter in 2009 especially in the first half of a SB season, too. The Pat stand to be 11-5 or so in 2008 despite not having an adequate backup QB for a third, to half a season, as Cassel learned to be a QB.

This year BB decided to rebuild the Defense in a big way, and that hurts this year's team too. Next year, the bumper crop of rookies of this season will be better for the experience. Meanwhiel despite the inexpereince they are STILL in the top dozen Teams in the League in Defense, which bodes well for the future. They will be supported by another bumper draft class and will be augmented by the luxury of having two starting caliber QBs even if one is still recovering from a severe knee injury, early.

Yes its nice that Brady is smart. He smartly sought out one of the premier knee surgeons in the country to perform his operation. It still did NOT prevent two infections that require re-surgery, and that set back his recovery. Yes he is smart and determined and undertaking a measured controlled recovery, but that still does not guarantee a recovery in time for the beginning of the 2009 season.

The doctors predict 18 months as the typical full recovery cycle from a surgery of this sort. Being smart tries to accelerate it; but being smart also does not mean jeopardizing future full recovery by attempting too much, too soon. Let us say being smart enhances his recovery to 15 months from 18. Who plays QB in September, October, and November 2009?

The Patriots have a very good chance of being a favorite and competing in the Superbowl for the 2009 season, and beyond. That is why BB/SP husband the cap in the first place, so they can USE it when needed, and I can't think of a greater need in 2009, then a good backup for a severely injured vet, who is returning from injury,ansd may not be and likely won't be ready early in the season.

Certainly, BB develops backup QBs. He has done a fine job developing backup MC; and unless you didn't look, he needs a backup in 2009, with all the uncertainty. BB doesn't have one other than MC. Then there is always the possibility of further injury at this most important position.

In 2010 KO'C will have two years of experience and may be ready to assume the role of backup, but likely not in 2009. Not every BB/SP pick pans out. Succeeding with Brady and Cassel is a pretty high batting average, but don't forget there was a Rohan Davey fromthe mid-rounds there in the mix too. Who is to say that KO'C is a keeper, yet?

In 2010, the Pats have a lot of big names to sign, so they can't afford the luxury of paying two good QBs. I acknowledge that, but they DO have the CAP room, and the need, in 2009.

Let me pose an alternative question. What should the Patriots do with the extra 10-14 million in cap for 2009? Name me an available FA or two that can improve the Pats more than having a good starting caliber backup QB? Everyone they add is merely a good backup or improvement on an at least adequate present player.

Don't forget I assume they will draft a S, CB, an ILB, and OLB, and an OL lineman high up before the end of the third round this offseason. The only possible position that I see is a star OLB pass rusher, namely WHO is available?
 

We can handle the truth - apparently you're the one who can't. I'll never understand the need for some fans to project their own personal disappointments and frustrations onto these players... unless it's because they are the only way in which they can make a case for even the most remote resemblance to them...

Palmer's injury was more severe and potentially complicated than Tommy's.

From a 2006 look at Palmer's recovery and rehab process:

"All predictions of Carson Palmer's recovery were based upon past examples of other NFL players and their recovery time...

Rehabilitation timelines vary from position to position, and player to player. Many of the predictions were based off of the Trent Green recovery, which knocked him out of the whole 1999 season.

Palmer changed the rules for recovery time from a serious knee injury, thus making the medical profession and sports world re-evaluate the value in aggressive rehabilitation and surgical practices.

Athletes can now can take Palmer’s rehab schedule and apply it to their own. Palmer's surgeon (Dr. Lonnie Paulos) stated that the injury was “devastating and potentially career-ending, involving numerous ligament tears, a shredded ligament, damaged cartilage and a dislocated kneecap”, which called for the use of a cadaver's Achilles tendon to rebuild the knee... Although the recovery is slower, in terms of the tendon attaching to the bone ratherthan ACL replacements... Palmer’s rehab (while aggressive) has had very few setbacks.

Palmer returned for 16 games in 2006 less than 7 months after surgery and playing for a dysfunctional .500 team he went to the Pro Bowl.

All the rehab in the world probably wouldn't have gotten you there, but Tommy is a professional athlete and lock HOF'er and his will. He has 11 months with which to work post surgery...
 
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It soars as a sometimes starter in 2009 especially in the first half of a SB season, too. The Pat stand to be 11-5 or so in 2008 despite not having an adequate backup QB for a third, to half a season, as Cassel learned to be a QB.

This year BB decided to rebuild the Defense in a big way, and that hurts this year's team too. Next year, the bumper crop of rookies of this season will be better for the experience. Meanwhiel despite the inexpereince they are STILL in the top dozen Teams in the League in Defense, which bodes well for the future. They will be supported by another bumper draft class and will be augmented by the luxury of having two starting caliber QBs even if one is still recovering from a severe knee injury, early.

Yes its nice that Brady is smart. He smartly sought out one of the premier knee surgeons in the country to perform his operation. It still did NOT prevent two infections that require re-surgery, and that set back his recovery. Yes he is smart and determined and undertaking a measured controlled recovery, but that still does not guarantee a recovery in time for the beginning of the 2009 season.

The doctors predict 18 months as the typical full recovery cycle from a surgery of this sort. Being smart tries to accelerate it; but being smart also does not mean jeopardizing future full recovery by attempting too much, too soon. Let us say being smart enhances his recovery to 15 months from 18. Who plays QB in September, October, and November 2009?

Where do you get this crap and why to you persist in repeating it despite factual evidence to the contrary...

The Patriots have a very good chance of being a favorite and competing in the Superbowl for the 2009 season, and beyond. That is why BB/SP husband the cap in the first place, so they can USE it when needed, and I can't think of a greater need in 2009, then a good backup for a severely injured vet, who is returning from injury,ansd may not be and likely won't be ready early in the season.

Certainly, BB develops backup QBs. He has done a fine job developing backup MC; and unless you didn't look, he needs a backup in 2009, with all the uncertainty. BB doesn't have one other than MC. Then there is always the possibility of further injury at this most important position.

In 2010 KO'C will have two years of experience and may be ready to assume the role of backup, but likely not in 2009. Not every BB/SP pick pans out. Succeeding with Brady and Cassel is a pretty high batting average, but don't forget there was a Rohan Davey fromthe mid-rounds there in the mix too. Who is to say that KO'C is a keeper, yet?

Unless you're blind your eyes would tell you at first glance that O'Connell isn't remotely in Rohan's league. And if he needs another year Brady didn't have you find a veteran backup in the offseason who can learn the offense over the offseason. That's insurance, carrying a $14.6M backup (who could have netted you a couple of day 1 picks in trade to further retooling that defense) to backup a $14M HOF'er is insanity.

In 2010, the Pats have a lot of big names to sign, so they can't afford the luxury of paying two good QBs. I acknowledge that, but they DO have the CAP room, and the need, in 2009.

If they don't get those guys resigned in 2009, they will be competing to in an uncapped league in 2010... Tag and trade allows them to extend those players in 2009. Tag and sit on the bench backing up a guy who is predicted to be back won't.

Let me pose an alternative question. What should the Patriots do with the extra 10-14 million in cap for 2009? Name me an available FA or two that can improve the Pats more than having a good starting caliber backup QB? Everyone they add is merely a good backup or improvement on an at least adequate present player.

Don't forget I assume they will draft a S, CB, an ILB, and OLB, and an OL lineman high up before the end of the third round this offseason. The only possible position that I see is a star OLB pass rusher, namely WHO is available?

We have no way of knowing who may become available this offseason due not only to contract status but teams cap status, coaching changes, roster re-toolings for cap or scheme purposes, etc. With extra picks trades can be worked out as well as FA signings. And heading into an uncapped future the message paying $14M for a backup QB would send to the rest of the starters and backups in that locker room is hey, why not me??? This system is predicated on paying market value (for elite players) or less for talent. One way to see it crumble would be to overpay for talent. That will be a problem for the NEP who will never break the business model to compete as well as several low revenue teams peering into an uncapped future who may start paring down payroll in anticipation of a work stoppage. It would also undercut the premise Bill has to make them believe that when one guy goes down, or just goes, the next guy steps up and is expected to deliver because otherwise he wouldn't be here. And no one player/position is more important than the team.

PS We can spend some of the picks Cassel brings and money saved once he is traded and the tag lifted on upgrading that OL as it pays dividends across the offense as well as at IR time. Kaczur is the youngest and least effective starter on that line and he'll be 30 when camp opens in 2009.
 
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Only a tridiot would be trupid enough to consider trading Tom Trady...I mean BRADY! Good thing that talk hasn't gotten into my head. :mad:
 
We can handle the truth - apparently you're the one who can't. I'll never understand the need for some fans to project their own personal disappointments and frustrations onto these players... unless it's because they are the only way in which they can make a case for even the most remote resemblance to them...

Palmer's injury was more severe and potentially complicated than Tommy's.

From a 2006 look at Palmer's recovery and rehab process:



Palmer returned for 16 games in 2006 less than 7 months after surgery and playing for a dysfunctional .500 team he went to the Pro Bowl.

All the rehab in the world probably wouldn't have gotten you there, but Tommy is a professional athlete and lock HOF'er and his will. He has 11 months with which to work post surgery...

So Palmer did an unprecedented and amazing thing, and recovered in record time. The doctors were amazed. The doctors still say on average that it is an 18 month injury. We already know that there were complications and two more surgeries were needed for the infections.

You quoted the one-off Palmer experience, I quote the Culpepper and Griese experience,and the Doctor's assertions. You say 7 months happened once, and 11 months is OK, and I say nonsense and wishful thinking.

The operation took place a month and half after the injury when the swelling had decreased. That puts it at mid October 2008. Eleven months after mid October 2008 is mid November 2009.

So I ask again... Who plays QB for the NEP in the months of September, October and half of November 2009? I suppose you think Tim Rattay or Chris Sims will be signed cheaply, and deliver an undefeated 10-0 Team to Brady when he returns around next Thanksgiving 2009, to lead the Patriots to the Superbowl win next season.

I say you are overly optimistic and ... DAFT!
 
Thank you. That's a compliment.

It was meant to be, I am a season ticket holding die hard fan.
I love the Patriots chances, every week, and fully comply with
what the upper brass says is best for this team, even if ...

.... they chose to trade Brady, I do not forget 2001
 
The doctors still say on average that it is an 18 month injury.

Which doctors would these be? At a quick skim across google I keep find 6-9 months being the average recovery time from ACL and MCL repair.
 
We can handle the truth - apparently you're the one who can't. I'll never understand the need for some fans to project their own personal disappointments and frustrations onto these players... unless it's because they are the only way in which they can make a case for even the most remote resemblance to them...

Palmer's injury was more severe and potentially complicated than Tommy's.

From a 2006 look at Palmer's recovery and rehab process:



Palmer returned for 16 games in 2006 less than 7 months after surgery and playing for a dysfunctional .500 team he went to the Pro Bowl.

All the rehab in the world probably wouldn't have gotten you there, but Tommy is a professional athlete and lock HOF'er and his will. He has 11 months with which to work post surgery...


Who the fahk is we? Patriot Nation? Then I am part of that "we", meathead

And being a fan of the Patriots, I can be opinionated, and choose my own path of thought. I do not have to fall in line with what you say, gimme a break.
Brady blew his knee out and suffered a rare infection to a wound that needed to have an even rarer repeat surgery to be drained, and treated with intravenous antibiotics. Thats not like any other knee surgery I have EVER heard about.

I have had knee surgery, by Dr. Tom Gill (the Patriots team doctor) and my knee has never been the same since, and neither has anyone I have met who has had knee surgery, sure they function, but the knee neveris quite the same again. Argue all you want killa, Im callin the forrest for the trees.

For what its worth I hope they put bionics in Brady's knee, or fused his ligaments with flubber so that they never snap apart like a rubber band again.
Shoot, I wish they fused his whole skeletal frame with adamantium.

I am not wishing anything bad on Brady, godspeed on his recovery.

But if a douche-bag like Matt Cassel can take us to a Super Bowl victory, anyone can,
so trade 'em both and get as many number ones as possible.


(and for all the matt cassel fans, if he throws 400yds tomorrow I will apologize, I have never really thought much of #16, I liked Gutierrez better)
 
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PS We can spend some of the picks Cassel brings and money saved once he is traded and the tag lifted on upgrading that OL as it pays dividends across the offense as well as at IR time. Kaczur is the youngest and least effective starter on that line and he'll be 30 when camp opens in 2009.

Mankins is the youngest starter on the offensive line. He's only 26 years old. Kaczur is 29, Koppen is 29, and a couple of months younger than Kaczur, Light is 30 and Neal is 32.
 
Kaczur is the youngest and least effective starter on that line and he'll be 30 when camp opens in 2009.

Are you feeling ok, Mo? Seriously, Kaczur has been just fine all year, on almost every play.
 
Which doctors would these be? At a quick skim across google I keep find 6-9 months being the average recovery time from ACL and MCL repair.

Yeah, exactly. That statement about 18 months is either from 1989 or from someone who isn't a doctor AND didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

Brayd will be starting for the New England Patriots Kickoff Weekend 2009 and will be as effective as he was before he got hurt.
 
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