The official Patriots vs Colts POST game thread

[ATippett56]

To the people complaining about the Pats not dominating the colts.

It's more the frustration of the New England Patriots playing 60 minutes of football, on both sides of the football especially in the tenth game of the season.

 

[DaBruinz]

and if Edelman STOPPED like he was supposed to, as explained post game, the ball would have hit his hands in FRONT of that LB. If that ball was meant for Welker it would have been up higher, not chest high where it hit the LB'er. I'm assuming I have the same game recording you do and I see what you mean but YOU don't seem to want to believe what I HEARD post game. Fine. You win.

As for what you "heard", who said it on WEEI? Who were they interviewing? Why is it that other journalists (Reiss/Breer) haven't mentioned this?

BTW, Tom Brady disagrees with you. Brady was going for WES. He said so today on D&C..

Tom Brady on WEEI - 11/22/2010

Listen at around the 8:20 mark..

"Yeah. Yeah. That was just a terrible read by me. I was just trying to jam it in to Wes..... "

I'll take Tom Brady's word for it over yours..

 

[DaBruinz]

Well if Edelman did not run the correct route, then it's time for Edelman to spend some time on the deactivated list. Dropped passes and bad route running is not what Tom Brady needs right now.

I don't know who they interviewed on WEEI last night, but Tom Brady said today that he was going for WES and not Julian. So, this idea that Julian ran the wrong route and was supposed to have stopped is contradicted by Brady who said that he expected the LB to go with Julian. Tells me that Julian was running the correct route. Contrary to what Joker has said and what was said on EEI...

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I don't know who they interviewed on WEEI last night, but Tom Brady said today that he was going for WES and not Julian. So, this idea that Julian ran the wrong route and was supposed to have stopped is contradicted by Brady who said that he expected the LB to go with Julian. Tells me that Julian was running the correct route. Contrary to what Joker has said and what was said on EEI...

Precisely. Tom stated that his expectation on his read was that Edelperson would drag the LB with him giving a clear route to 83, but the LB stopped and fortunately had LB hands.

 

[rojo8401]

I don't know who they interviewed on WEEI last night, but Tom Brady said today that he was going for WES and not Julian. So, this idea that Julian ran the wrong route and was supposed to have stopped is contradicted by Brady who said that he expected the LB to go with Julian. Tells me that Julian was running the correct route. Contrary to what Joker has said and what was said on EEI...

You are correct sir. Even without Brady's statement, my recollection was that Brady locked in on a covered Welker while Edelman was wide open on that crossing route. Thank you Hagler! That drop was HUGE.

I see we have the usual battle of perspectives raging in here again. I feel very lucky to have won that game. Manning completely choked. I can only imagine what the outcome would have been without those horrible INTs.

I thought Brady had a solid game overall though.

Indy proved it's resilience to me, what with all the injuries (they do matter). I am very anxious about meeting them again in the playoffs when they will have some of their starters back and Manning isn't likely to make those throws twice.

It's also kind of unfair to paint the Jets as lucky in victory and not us as well. We obviously got a little help from the gods of luck (Hagler drop is an easy one) yesterday as well. It comes off as 'whistling past the graveyard' to dismiss how fortunate we were to have Manning self destruct at the very last minute. Garcon was totally covered so that whole play was crazyville from the get-go.

I highly doubt BB was/is satisfied with the performance of the team in the 4th. If he is, I need to go work for him! My boss is a perfectionist. Nothing is ever 'good enough' with him. .

 

[Steve102]

A breakdown with some x's and o's of the three interceptions:

The Voice of The Fan...Fanviewpoint.com: Key Plays In Patriots D Force Manning Into 3 INT's

 

[Ring 6]

Oh, I absolutely agree with the fact that the offense basically rolled over in the fourth. I'm just saying the defense did well, all things considered.

What is the purpose of using a term such as 'rolled over'? From here it implies that you are saying they just didnt care and stopped trying to play. Is that what you mean?

 

[Ring 6]

It's more the frustration of the New England Patriots playing 60 minutes of football, on both sides of the football especially in the tenth game of the season.

Well they played 59:35 if you dont want to count the victory formation.
The Colts never led in the game. To say the team quit because it played a style that was more likely to let the Colts get close while at the same time less likely to let them win the game is foolish./

 

[Ring 6]

This win was huge. I'm happy as hell, but irritated at the same time. I had a big stack on the Pats -3

But even worse, the Colts definitely were going to come back and score the game winning TD after we dominated them almost the entire game. A definite pattern has emerged against the Colts and I'm sick of it. But thank you James Sanders--that play is as good as it gets.

Tom Brady's inconsistency is becoming troubling, while Manning was awe-inspiring with his accuracy, etc. until the game-ending choke. Whether you use number of rings, post season record, etc. it doesn't matter--Manning is clearly the better QB right now.

Passive D in the fourth wasn't an issue--when we blitzed, horseface had all the answers. Not much more the D could have done. The chickensh!t unnecessary roughness on TBC was a typical Colts gimme call IMO. Some things are so predictible you can set your watch by them.

Hey there is this sport called football. You should acquaint yourself with it.
It has this interesting dynamic to it that you arent supposed to give the other team the ball, or you will lose.

 

[Patspsycho]

A breakdown with some x's and o's of the three interceptions:

The Voice of The Fan...Fanviewpoint.com: Key Plays In Patriots D Force Manning Into 3 INT's

Correct interpretation of the 2nd interception. I thought it was a cover 2 morph to cover 3 and said so in the game thread but I was dead wrong upon review. McCourty had outside leverage on his man which means a cover 4 because in a cover 2 you want to funnel to safeties, so yes, Garcon was correct to run a 3 out adjust but Manning threw a 9 go route and that's all she wrote.

EDIT: Actually, what really helped this interception was Arrington lining up as 9 tech in 3 point on the line in this play and rushing Manning so he did not have time to decode the coverage.

 

[Patspsycho]

and if Edelman STOPPED like he was supposed to, as explained post game, the ball would have hit his hands in FRONT of that LB. If that ball was meant for Welker it would have been up higher, not chest high where it hit the LB'er. I'm assuming I have the same game recording you do and I see what you mean but YOU don't seem to want to believe what I HEARD post game. Fine. You win.

Edelman was not supposed to stop. This is the hi-low drag play they run out of the trips left or right posse against under zones. He ran the low drag to pull the backers coverage down and Welker took the top but unfortunately Angerer who was in under zone and thus picked up Edelman, read Brady all the way and knew Welker was the target (or he did his homework in the video room). Brady in one of his rare moments sold the play with his eyes. You can see this all the way in the first slow motion clip they showed from the end zone camera after the play elapsed.

Edelman was never the target- he isn't anywhere near the down marker. Welker is over it.

 

[Patspsycho]

You are correct sir. Even without Brady's statement, my recollection was that Brady locked in on a covered Welker while Edelman was wide open on that crossing route. Thank you Hagler! That drop was HUGE.

It was Angerer who couldn't rein in the ball.

Edelman was never the target.

 

[JMarr]

Hey there is this sport called football. You should acquaint yourself with it.
It has this interesting dynamic to it that you arent supposed to give the other team the ball, or you will lose.

Wow, maybe you should refrain from spewing pointless sarcasm unless you're actually making a coherent point. :nono:

I get it--you're offended that a Patriots fan has the gall to try to be objective when it comes comparing the way Manning and Brady are currently playing, and say that Manning is the more talented QB right now.

I've said several times that Brady's biggest strength this year has been in not turning the ball over, and I'll take that any day of the week. But do you really think Brady is capable of shredding a defense in crunch time like we saw Manning do if he was working with the Colts' current offensive players?

I know objectivity isn't exacly your strong suit Andy, so that's a rhetorical question more than anything else.

 

[Deus Irae]

Wow, maybe you should refrain from spewing pointless sarcasm unless you're actually making a coherent point. :nono:

I get it--you're offended that a Patriots fan has the gall to try to be objective when it comes comparing the way Manning and Brady are currently playing, and say that Manning is the more talented QB right now.

I've said several times that Brady's biggest strength this year has been in not turning the ball over, and I'll take that any day of the week. But do you really think Brady is capable of shredding a defense in crunch time like we saw Manning do if he was working with the Colts' current offensive players?

I know objectivity isn't exacly your strong suit Andy, so that's a rhetorical question more than anything else.

What you are ignoring is that Brady HAS shredded defenses in crunch time like we saw Manning do, while working with less than what the Colts are currently putting out on the field.

 

[ATippett56]

Well they played 59:35 if you dont want to count the victory formation.
The Colts never led in the game. To say the team quit because it played a style that was more likely to let the Colts get close while at the same time less likely to let them win the game is foolish./

I never said the Patriots team quit. I question the mental focus for sixty minutes and the Belichick mantra of "do your job".

 

[Horace's Ivories]

Just rewatched the game - the last 4 Patriot pass plays were really just awful-

4- Edelman drop - more of a Brady mis pass at the first down marker
3- 5 Wides - quick throw-away as Freeney came unblocked - bad play call or execution?
2- Pass to Branch - Bad throw no? really didnt look like interferance
1- Pass to Hagler - badness abounds

i wonder if Brady got injured on that one hit he got planted and landed on towards end of game?

 

[Kasmir]

Just rewatched the game - the last 4 Patriot pass plays were really just awful-
...
2- Pass to Branch - Bad throw no? really didnt look like interferance

I just began rewatching the last 10 minutes of the game (it's been too painful to watch the meltdown). That play (at 7:17 remaining in the 4th quarter) was definitely defensive pass interference. The third camera angle was a slo-mo isolation on Branch and Brown, and from this angle you can clearly see that Brown held Branch's left arm down making it impossible for him to make the catch. The ball was perfectly well thrown, actually hitting Branch in the left of his face mask, and Branch was unable to make the catch with just his right hand. Brown made no attempt to play the ball. Textbook pass interference in a game changing way. Really bad non call.

It'd be great if someone could post a frame grab of this one. It's irrefutable evidence.

 

[ATippett56]

I just began rewatching the last 10 minutes if the game, too (it's painful to watch the meltdown). That play (at 7:17 remaining in the 4th quarter) was *definitely* defensive pass interference. The third camera angle was a slo-mo isolation on Branch and Brown, and from this angle you can clearly see that Brown held Branch's left arm down making it impossible for him to make the catch. The ball was perfectly well thrown, actually hitting Branch in the left of his face mask, and Branch was unable to make the catch with just his right hand. Textbook pass interference in a game changing way. Really bad non call.

It'd be great if someone good post a frame grab of this one. It's irrefutable evidence.

Polian Laws: Colts defensive backs never commit pass interference. Colts offensive lineman never commit offensive holding.

The NFL referees swallow the whistle when the Colts are playing. It has become atrocious!

 

[Kasmir]

The other thing that p*sses me off about this non call is that it detracted from another great game by Deion Branch. He was hurt against Cleveland and it showed. In every other game since he's been back he's been huge and has more than made up for Moss's departure.

 

[Kasmir]

On the 1st down zone left run by BJGE from the Patriot's 29 at 3:57 remaining in the 4th, Benny made a bad decision to break it outside of Light, who had a good seal out on Freeney. The inside seam was open for 4+ yards. Interestingly, Angerer made a helmet to helmet tackle that snapped Benny's head back dangerously. No call of course.

On the following 2nd and 8 zone right play Connolly was badly beaten by Moala simultaneously with Koppen whiffing on Wheeler's run blitz. An embarrassing jailbreak against two backups: Moala forced BJGE too run it too deep it allowing Wheeler to stop BJGE at the LOS. There was nothing Benny could have done.

The third down was just a bad decision by Brady and a great reaction by Hagler to drop off of coverage on Edelman to stay in his zone and play the throw to Welker. Brady should have led Edelman who had a clear path to a 1st down. Hernandez also looked to be open 20 yards downfield. Worst play of the game by Brady by far: a good throw could have won the game, and instead his bad throw nearly lost it.

Watching it live I thought it was then a bad punt by Mesko, but it was actually 42 net, which isn't great but certainly isn't bad.

All in all, a terrible series after the first play. Only took 2:43 off the clock and the Colts didn't need to use a timeout. When I watched it live I was critical of the play calling in these two last offensive series, and I still think at least one play action pass should have been attempted. But the execution was horrible in the last series, with a bad decision by BJGE, terrible execution by Connolly and Koppen, and an awful decision by Brady.