The OFFICIAL Patriots vs Bills PostGame Thread

[Gumby]

You actually don't know that to be true. The play called by the Bills may have been something practiced by the Patriot D and the result would be a higher % chance at an incomplete pass or an INT. Fitz, TB, Manning etc etc throw INTs. And while on TV it may look like the QB simply threw it to the wrong guy, you don't see the POV of the QB or what the defense has done to make him believe that pass will be completed. There, potentially, is more to the story than the QB simply didn't see the defender who was simply lucky to be in the right spot without any purpose otherwise.

That is not to say the defense played well. This was one of the poorer defensive performances of the year (this was a collective effort by all parts of the D to be poor). However, because the overall play was poor does not mean anything they did do actually well had to be because the Bills simply didn't try hard enough or simply made an unforced error......maybe.

You are ON THE MONEY with the "more to the story".

According to the morning news reports; the wr had two reads on that route; one to go under mcC and one to go above. He chose above; Fitz was expecting under/in-front.
http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports...ills-were-going-to-score-and-win-the-ballgame

Looks really bad on film for Fitz; but in reality it is different hot-reads based on the coverage or a SIMPLE MISCOMMUNICATION (with huge consequences). So 50-50 fault; or blame it on the coaches for not having a single synchronized hot-read.

Maybe you can still say is Fitz fault as he looked left first and maybe didnt see exactly where McC was standing when Graham was about to make his cut; OR maybe McC baited him a little - McC says he read the QBs eyes too. (golly gee, what wonderful things happen when you look in the direction of the ball!!!)
But all in all - there was a reason he threw it there; not obvious to us-viewers, and it was not simply Fitz suks; but even so it doesnt really absolve the Pats D of any of its other atrociousness.

 

[jeman022004]

I knew Fitzpatrick couldn't complete a game without throwing a pick, fortunately it came at the right time!

 

[CityOfChampions]

Bills fans are extra pathetic after this loss. First Wilfork is dirtier than Suh, then Spikes intentionally hit Jackson to knock him out (uh it was hard clean hit cry more), and now I'm seeing them complain about Mayo's hit on Fitz out of bounds ya know the type of thing that happens once a game to every team. Mayo and Spikes should be fined and suspended according to them hahahahaha. If Brady was hit like Spikes hit Fitz and Mayo hit Fitz the same thing would've resulted penalties and a fine (for Spikes presumably) yet they would whine if Brady got those calls saying that the league babies the Patriots and you can't touch Tom Brady!! I just needed to share what I've been seeing because it's cracking me up.

 

[jeman022004]

Bills fans are extra pathetic after this loss. First Wilfork is dirtier than Suh, then Spikes intentionally hit Jackson to knock him out (uh it was hard clean hit cry more), and now I'm seeing them complain about Mayo's hit on Fitz out of bounds ya know the type of thing that happens once a game to every team. Mayo and Spikes should be fined and suspended according to them hahahahaha. If Brady was hit like Spikes hit Fitz and Mayo hit Fitz the same thing would've resulted penalties and a fine (for Spikes presumably) yet they would whine if Brady got those calls saying that the league babies the Patriots and you can't touch Tom Brady!! I just needed to share what I've been seeing because it's cracking me up.

I remember watching the spikes hit on Jackson in slow motion. That was all on Jackson lowering his head right before impact. If he wouldn't have flinched, the hit would have been in the chest area.

 

[Kontradiction]

Gotta love the BS you spew. The fact of the matter is that the Pats defense was up and down all game. You seem to have missed the forced fumble on the 1 yard line just a couple series prior to the interception. I didn't. And the reason that Fitzpatrick hit McCourty between the numbers is because TJ Graham ran the wrong route and Fitzpatrick couldn't see McCourty. You claim to know so much about football, but you miss the basics on a play like that.

To me, it looked very much like Fitzpatrick was expecting and throwing to a receiver running a drag route. Either one of two things happened in that play. One, Fitzpatrick saw McCourty and tried to thread the needle anyway. Two, Fitzpatrick didn't see McCourty due to the wrong route being run. Either scenario has more to do with Fitzpatrick and the Bills' offense's ineptitude than it does with the Patriots defense forcing the turnover.

For another, the Patriots defense didn't play an "up and down game". They were horrible, especially against the pass. Only a man arguing what he knows to be a losing stance would say that. The Patriots yielded nearly 500 yards of total offense, 31 points, and 33:50 TOP to the 15th ranked, middle of the pack, Buffalo Bills offense. That's the definition of horrible defense, not "up and down". It's also the latest in many examples of why the team made a move for Talib. In the end, in spite of the Bills committing 148 yards in penalties, the Patriots still needed a gift from Fitzpatrick to seal the game (as the Bills were deep in our territory, mind you).

BTW, if I was "talking down to you", I be using words like moron, idiot, lame-brain, etc. Things that you readily would understand. Do yourself a favor and stop while your behind. You'll do everyone a world of good.

Not surprising in the least that someone who has spent so many years here talking down to people is completely lost on what it really means to do so. One can easily talk down to people without using any of the words that you just described in your piss poor definition. Managers and superiors do it all the time. A good example of trying to talk down to someone is the final two sentences in the very post that I just quoted.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

McCourty had such an up & down game. He was beaten constantly but he also had those 2 big turnovers (Yes, the forced fumble was big because it took 2 minutes off of clock). I am intrigued to hear your guys' opinions on his performance.

Where he was playing he wasn't being consistently beaten...his replacement was. The forced fumble had the potential be be a big play because it should have taken at least 2 minutes off the clock. Problem was Josh decided to go all pass and ended up taking 19 seconds off the clock... And that kind of decision making/playcalling moreso than uncharacteristic intermittent failure to execute is what continues to grate on this offense. Same deal at the end of the game when we opt not to run time off the clock inside the 10 and end up settling for the FG anyway. I know we want 7 there, but we also want to run every possible second off the clock. There were ways to go in this game that would have not even allowed Buffalo a last gasp that Fitz once again blew.

 

[DefenseRules]

I just "heard" Shalize Mansa Young (excuse my spellling please) say that BB is going to personally take over the coaching of the Defensive Backs and a more hands on approach to the defense in general going forward. I don't know where she heard that, but that is what she said. They don't want Boyer to go anywhere near Talib either. BB is going to coach him personally according to her. We have all complained about the coaching. I really believe that is the problem. BB needs to get better coaches for his defense. Other than Pepper Johnson, I don't trust any of the defensive coaches.

Edit: Sorry guys. I typed too fast.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I just Shalize Mansa Young (excuse my spellling please) say that BB is going to personally take over the coaching of the Defensive Backs and a more hands on approach to the defense in general going forward. I don't know where she heard that, but that is what she said. They don't want Boyer to go anywhere near Talib either. BB is going to coach him personally according to her. We have all complained about the coaching. I really believe that is the problem. BB needs to get better coaches for his defense. Other than Pepper Johnson, I don't trust any of the defensive coaches.

Interesting. I invite SMY to elaborate here.

I for one am glad it's not his son taking over the DBs.

 

[Big-T]

I just Shalize Mansa Young (excuse my spellling please) say that BB is going to personally take over the coaching of the Defensive Backs and a more hands on approach to the defense in general going forward.

About time! Hopefully that means he knows there's a problem and both coaches in the secondary get fired and replaced by competent staff.

People on here have seen that Boyer/Flores are the weak link and I bet Pepper is as sick as a parrot that Patricia was given the DC gig over him.

 

[RodThePat]

I just Shalize Mansa Young (excuse my spellling please) say that BB is going to personally take over the coaching of the Defensive Backs and a more hands on approach to the defense in general going forward. I don't know where she heard that, but that is what she said. They don't want Boyer to go anywhere near Talib either. BB is going to coach him personally according to her. We have all complained about the coaching. I really believe that is the problem. BB needs to get better coaches for his defense. Other than Pepper Johnson, I don't trust any of the defensive coaches.

Belichick has surrounded himself with guys that don't present any "threat" to his authority and control on the defensive side of the ball. Most of our coaches were slowly brought into his system, and completely adhere to his philosophy. It's time to bring in someone with a new perspective, someone who's willing to challenge Bill on the coaching front. When you are in a position where everything you say is the gospel, and nobody has the guts to contradict you on it, people tend to become a little complacent. We have too many "yes-man" on the coaching staff, and while having coaches Belichick trusts, and helped bring up is important, you also need some outside views.

 

[NYCPatsFan]

I just Shalize Mansa Young (excuse my spellling please) say that BB is going to personally take over the coaching of the Defensive Backs and a more hands on approach to the defense in general going forward. I don't know where she heard that, but that is what she said. They don't want Boyer to go anywhere near Talib either. BB is going to coach him personally according to her. We have all complained about the coaching. I really believe that is the problem. BB needs to get better coaches for his defense. Other than Pepper Johnson, I don't trust any of the defensive coaches.

Wow! Hope its true, and if yes, it brings in excellent results.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

About time! Hopefully that means he knows there's a problem and both coaches in the secondary get fired and replaced by competent staff.

People on here have seen that Boyer/Flores are the weak link and I bet Pepper is as sick as a parrot that Patricia was given the DC gig over him.

Sitting behind the bench Sunday I sadly noted that Pepper now walks with a cane. Am I Captain Clueless just noticing this or is it new?

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Belichick has surrounded himself with guys that don't present any "threat" to his authority and control on the defensive side of the ball. Most of our coaches were slowly brought into his system, and completely adhere to his philosophy. It's time to bring in someone with a new perspective, someone who's willing to challenge Bill on the coaching front. When you are in a position where everything you say is the gospel, and nobody has the guts to contradict you on it, people tend to become a little complacent. We have too many "yes-man" on the coaching staff, and while having coaches Belichick trusts, and helped bring up is important, you also need some outside views.

It seems that way but I find it hard to believe that a truly competent and self confident manager would feel the need to do that. Maybe I'm biased because I was a manager in the high tech computer industry where it was imperative to surround yourself with the brightest possible folk which often led to "interesting" discussions sometimes at high volume.

 

[DefenseRules]

About time! Hopefully that means he knows there's a problem and both coaches in the secondary get fired and replaced by competent staff.

People on here have seen that Boyer/Flores are the weak link and I bet Pepper is as sick as a parrot that Patricia was given the DC gig over him.

I agree. At first, I blamed the players, but now I am starting to look at coaching. There are serious flaws in the technique of the Dbs. Someone is not coaching them right. How long have Flores and Boyer been coaching anyway?

 

[Big-T]

I agree. At first, I blamed the players, but now I am starting to look at coaching. There are serious flaws in the technique of the Dbs. Someone is not coaching them right. How long have Flores and Boyer been coaching anyway?

Brian Flores (31 years old) - Became special teams assistant in 08/09 after being promoted(?) from being a scout, it's his first year as safeties coach.

Josh Boyer (35 years old) - Graduate assistant from 2000, DB coach at Bryant in 04 then went to the Patriots after being DC for a year at some College I've never heard of.

So masses of experience!

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Like I said..you go GET that BB....he was the one who called a three man rush on third and nine at the Bills 22...it just LOOKED like Patricia made that call...BB made ALL the calls, you're right...I'm gonna go over here-------------> and carry on ,OK?...you go get that BB...

Bill doesn't wear that headset to make a fashion statement. And he has the initial and final say on gameplans, particularly on defense. Patricia like RAC and Eric (who had a little more input until BB took his headset away midway through his lone season as a DC here) are conduits, period. The buck stops with BB. He's the one who has to beat some situational sense into McDaniels and he's the one who makes the fundamental call on whether we play coverage and feature that ugly soft zone defense or get aggressive up front and remain stout against the run.

A bad day at the office by multiple defenders (penalties, missed tackles) exacerbated the situation yesterday. But you never saw Bill grabbing Patricia's headset or screaming into his own, what you saw instead was that befuddled look again on BB's mug like why isn't it working... It may just be because he hasn't managed to secure the kind of talent it takes to make that scheme work and/or because he refuses to throw in the towel on his scheme and adapt it to the talent he has at hand. Those philosophical decisions are, as they say, made above Matt Patricia's pay grade. Bill's coordinators are never more than an extension of Bill. Unlike in places where the HC is one sided and either his OC or DC in fact brings a scheme of their own to the table or the GM is in charge and reliant on a HC or coordinators to provide a scheme that fits his talent or provides him a blueprint on which to base future acquisitions.

More experienced assistants may at times have forced Bill to think outside his comfort zone box. But then again butting heads with him is what ultimately led to Eric's departure, and probably Pees departure, while the desire to stand alone clearly drove RAC's departure which hasn't exactly panned out for him. RAC was never the genius behind the earlier defenses. He was just the experienced installation and maintenance technician on what were generally more talented and and increasingly system veteran heavy defenses. This defense is a whole other kettle of fish, most of whom are young and inexperienced and some of whom are vastly lesser talents.

 

[randomk1]

I just "heard" Shalize Mansa Young (excuse my spellling please) say that BB is going to personally take over the coaching of the Defensive Backs and a more hands on approach to the defense in general going forward. I don't know where she heard that, but that is what she said. They don't want Boyer to go anywhere near Talib either. BB is going to coach him personally according to her. We have all complained about the coaching. I really believe that is the problem. BB needs to get better coaches for his defense. Other than Pepper Johnson, I don't trust any of the defensive coaches.

Edit: Sorry guys. I typed too fast.

God i hope that's true. It just ain't working right now.

 

[Marqui]

I just "heard" Shalize Mansa Young (excuse my spellling please) say that BB is going to personally take over the coaching of the Defensive Backs and a more hands on approach to the defense in general going forward. I don't know where she heard that, but that is what she said. They don't want Boyer to go anywhere near Talib either. BB is going to coach him personally according to her. We have all complained about the coaching. I really believe that is the problem. BB needs to get better coaches for his defense. Other than Pepper Johnson, I don't trust any of the defensive coaches.

Edit: Sorry guys. I typed too fast.

If true, then there goes the "coaching isn't a problem" argument.

 

[Triumph]

I just "heard" Shalize Mansa Young (excuse my spellling please) say that BB is going to personally take over the coaching of the Defensive Backs and a more hands on approach to the defense in general going forward. I don't know where she heard that, but that is what she said. They don't want Boyer to go anywhere near Talib either. BB is going to coach him personally according to her. We have all complained about the coaching. I really believe that is the problem. BB needs to get better coaches for his defense. Other than Pepper Johnson, I don't trust any of the defensive coaches.

Edit: Sorry guys. I typed too fast.

I dont.

DBs that leave NE dont go on to stellar careers like they were being held back from their potential because of poor coaching.

 

[The Gr8est]

I just "heard" Shalize Mansa Young (excuse my spellling please) say that BB is going to personally take over the coaching of the Defensive Backs and a more hands on approach to the defense in general going forward. I don't know where she heard that, but that is what she said. They don't want Boyer to go anywhere near Talib either. BB is going to coach him personally according to her. We have all complained about the coaching. I really believe that is the problem. BB needs to get better coaches for his defense. Other than Pepper Johnson, I don't trust any of the defensive coaches.

Edit: Sorry guys. I typed too fast.

As I recall, this worked well the last time I remember BB doing this; when Eric "The Rodent" Mangini was DC.