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The Koolaid is tasting a little stale....

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by scott99, Oct 31, 2011.

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  1. scott99

    scott99 Rookie

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    #87 Jersey

    This is not a "woe is me" or a "the sky is falling" thread. It's more of a reality check. Some people may not agree with me or may attack me or may flame me, but some may also agree.

    The team is now 6 years past the days of the Dynasty years, and several massive blunders have been made in drafting and coaching in those 6 years. Our defensive co-ordinator, who happens to be our head coach, has seen the NFL pass him by. He is no longer the mad scientist who took a mediocre defense and came up with a scheme to beat the 15-1 Rams in SB 36. He is no longer the "genius" who is able to make half time adjustments to beat "Good-Great" teams. The Pats score a lot of points in blow out wins, and can't score when they face good defenses (sound familiar ?, Colts of the early 2000's).

    The destruction of the Dynasty started with horrendous drafting in the early 2000's which has continued to this day. The Bethel Johnson's over the Anquan Boldin's, The Chad Jackson's over the Greg Jenning's (though that looked good at the time). Picking up a quantity of draft picks instead of picking quality has hurt this team big time. Though every year, the pundits seem to praise Belichick for going off of the board by making the "interesting" pick instead of picking the good player available, proclaiming, this is the "Patriot Way", this is why the Patriots win championships, yet they are talking about Ghosts. Every year, I see the Pats highly graded post draft, yet every year, I wait to see these players perform, yet they almost always wind up as terrible players (Tate, Crable, Butler, etc), or they can't make it to the field (IR, street clothes, etc). It reminds me of the Emporer's new clothes, the way the pundits praise Belichick's drafting. Yet I don't see it. So many of us have justified not picking certain players, because "they wouldn't fit" in the Patriot's system, I think that is a load of BS.

    Now please note, I'm not complaining, I'm a Patriot's fan since 1975. I've seen the 1-15 and 2-14 teams, and stuck by them through thick and thin, and will stick with them during the impending decline. It's unfortunate, but sports is very cyclical, for instance, look at the 49er's. 5 Championships in 14 years, and then at least 10 years of mediocricy until they are back on the upswing. Same for the Raiders and Redskins, both winning 3 SB's in a 10 year period, and then dissapearing off of the face of the earth. As long as we have Brady/Belichick, the Patriots will be competitive, may even win a few more AFC East Titles, hopefully a few playoff games. But the game has passed Belichick by, the glory years are a distant memory. Unless Belichick can start drafting players that can help this team become a champion again, and can start getting back to smashmouth football, we are destined to fade away like the 49er's. Hopefully that's not the case, but that's what I'm seeing.
  2. RhodyPatriot

    RhodyPatriot Rookie

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    Spot on!!!! I think what's so unfortunate is that the Pats won SB's early in Tom Brady's HOF career. Oddly it's been during Brady's prime that Belichick has blown opportunities to build on the dynasty. This has not been a case of an aging QB dragging the team down. Brady has been in his HOF prime and we're not winning championships because the guy buying the groceries has done a lousy job.
  3. R_T26

    R_T26 Banned

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    DaBruinz should be here soon to scold all the non-believers in 3-2-1...
  4. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I suggest you find a better team to root for.
  5. RodThePat

    RodThePat Rookie

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    Yes, because we all know true fans would NEVER criticize this team in any way, and should all just be deeply grateful for all those recent regular season wins that amount to absolutely nothing when the marbles are on the table.
  6. Bertil

    Bertil Rookie

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    I second this. Why should we ignore what is plainly evident? I agree with everything expressed in the first post in this thread. We've all looked for some change in the trajectory of the Patriots' fortunes, but there is exactly NO change from year to year. It continues to be "what it is"... and that is no good if you want Championship contention to be the goal. If you want to be better that the Rod Rust era, then, Woo Hoo, we're there!
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2011
  7. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Rookie

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    I've had none of the kool-aid........

    this is still a good football team..........but given teh resources available to the team such as draft picks and sound cap management, it baffles the mind that this organization and staff would produce the worst defense in the NFL
  8. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Rookie

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    Sometimes I really wonder if Belichick wakes up in the morning and doesn't realize that Bruschi,Harrison,Vrabel and Seymour are no longer putting thier uniforms on in the Gillette locker room.

    Sure seems like that sometimes.....
  9. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    No, true fans should be critical....... You only become less believable as a "true fan" when all you are is critical. A quick glance at your posting history reveals you as OVERWHELMINGLY critical on almost every post. Therefore, as a poster, the continuous negative crap you post become just background noise and you look less like a true fan and more like a troll.

    That's MG's point. If all you are gonna be is critical, then find another team that you are less critical of, and then you'll be free to "enjoy" the game, your team and the sport in general. Posters who just post negative crap pretty much rule themselves out of the discussion because they are less believable. Even when they have good points to make.

    This team isn't horrible. We certainly have issues that we need to overcome and certainly some of the moves we've made personnel wise are peculiar to say the least, to sit here and post a thread titled "The Koolaid is tasting a little stale" is beyond silly.

    We lost to a 5-2 team in an away game to a team that was in the Super Bowl last year. It's not like the Steelers are not an elite team or anything. It's not like this was like the Cleveland loss last year to a crappy team. The biggest surprise to me is not that we lost (most reasonable fans knew this was gonna be a tough win), it was how anemic we looked coming off a bye. That is something that is is uncharacteristic for us.

    So yeah.......... if the Kool-aid tastes a little stale after a tough road loss to one of the best teams in the AFC, then perhaps you do need to move on to one of the "trendy" teams where the Kool aid is fresher. :rolleyes:
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2011
  10. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Bertil and Rod,

    I'm sure that there are teams that better meet your high standards. Find one.

    Those who think that the game has passed by Belichick should find a better coach.

    No one is suggesting that the team should never be criticized. The decision with to cut both Sanders and Meriweather was an awful decision.

    However, anyone we have the best team in the nfl over the past decade, and the best franchise in all of sports. We have the best ownership in all of sports. We are not the team of 2003 and 2004. No one is. Over the past five years, we are one of 3 top teams in the entire nfl. We have OWNED our division for a decade. We were 11-5 even when Brady was out.

    I do understand that this just isn't good enough for some. They think that the league has passed us by, and that Belichick has made terrible choices.
    ============

    As of Friday, we were one of the 3 best teams in the nfl THIS YEAR. As of Friday, we were one the top 3 teams of the last decade, and even the last 5 years.

    Yesterday, we were beaten by one of the other 3 best teams in the nfl, and ofne of th other top 3 teams of the last decade, and of the last 5 years.
    ============

    That is reality.
    ===========

    HOWEVER, we each have the choice to spin the reality in any way we wish. My suggestion is that those who find that this team is a failure should find a team that is better fit for what they think a team should be. The patriots are not changing much anytime soon, not as long as the team is built around the best coach-quarterback combo in the history of the nfl.
    ============

    This nonsense has happened after every loss since 2004. Many don't bother responding. I guess that is better than trying to suggest sanity.





















    Last edited: Oct 31, 2011
  11. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    And yet the defensive front seven (and our strong safety) were the least of our worries yesterday. The offense scored 10 points (not counting the gimmee and lost 2. The defense does have a fine strong safety in Chung.

    Last edited: Oct 31, 2011
  12. RodThePat

    RodThePat Rookie

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    This response is mind blowingly immature. Are you saying the criticism put forth on threads like this isn't valid? The thread starter wasn't even that venomous on his observations, in my opinion. The problem with some fans is that they think we should all be thankful just for having a winning record and we shouldn't be so negative about a loss to a good team.

    If I felt this iteration of the Patriots was a serious SuperBowl contender in it's current state, I wouldn't be that bothered by a regular season loss. The thing is, this team has the same deficiencies that have prevented it from achieving it's goal for the last 5 years. We are seeing that same film over and over again, and it's very frustrating to see things unfold in apparently the same way, because that indicates that the final result won't be that different from previous seasons. That is all.

    If I criticize, it's because I care enough about this team to spend 3 hours of my day arguing on a messageboard like an idiot. This whole "go root for another team, then" argument is childish and adds nothing to a conversation. It's basically the "you criticize, and thus, you are wrong" argument, condensed in an immature sentence.
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2011
  13. sbpatfan

    sbpatfan Banned

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    The offense wasn't great, but they never really had a chance. Every time Pittsburgh had the ball they methodically moved down the field eating up huge chunks of time. Dallas did the same thing to us, but they weren't able to pull it out in the end. Our defense can't get off the field, even in favorable situations (how many freakin' third and longs did Pittsburgh convert yesterday?).
  14. NEPatriot

    NEPatriot Banned

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    I was never into the whole "dynasty" thing. Even at the beginning of this season there were posts about "who we will face in the SB", "Brady MVP", etc. It used to drive me crazy when I'd read threads about "are we the greatest dynasty ever" etc. I try to just enjoy the season one game at a time. We're a good team, but we're not an elite one.
  15. makoute

    makoute Rookie

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    Drafting have been an issue with this team, I think the biggest problem have been coaching, this team is poorly coached, if it isn't working they don't have a plan b during a game. And that is on both sides of the ball, Offense and Defense. I think it is time we get an OC and a DC.
  16. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    No..... Not at all. I'm speaking directly to you...... You post nothing but negative stuff, so people take your negative posts for granted and give them less weight.

    As to the OP. The point remains.

    if the Kool-aid tastes a little stale after a tough road loss to one of the best teams in the AFC, then perhaps you do need to move on to one of the "trendy" teams where the Kool aid is fresher.

    I have some issues with the way this team is playing, but losing to Pittsburgh (who is an upper their NFL team) is hardly enough to make one stop drinking the Kool Aid. If it is, perhaps you expect too much.

    True fans drink the Kool Aid EVERYDAY, even when some days it's not as delicious as others.
  17. scott99

    scott99 Rookie

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    #87 Jersey

    That's complete and utter BS. A true fan sits there with rose colored glasses on ? No, basically that's an unintelligent fan. A TRUE fan can still critisize their favorite team. A TRUE fan can see when the same old thing isn't working, and speaks up about it stating, "maybe it isn't working anymore", maybe we need changes. Sure, I'm not going to drink the Koolaid anymore because I don't believe it's working. Will I go to another team just because I believe my favorite team needs to change their ways, draft better, and coach better ? I've been a fan since before you were born, so that ain't gonna happen, just because you're insulted by my honest opion as a fan of my favorite team for 36 years.

    That's like saying I should get different parents because I disagree with them from time to time. Almost as assinine.
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2011
  18. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There are no elite teams other than Green Bay. How does that help the discussion?

  19. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Disable Jersey

    Foolish people drink the Kool Aid EVERYDAY. Intelligent people think for themselves.
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2011
  20. Dutchmaster617

    Dutchmaster617 Rookie

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    This is what you get when the defense fails to stop a third down conversion, and allows a team to score quickly in a tied game late.

    That doesn't happen we are 7-0 and this topic is electing Bill for back to back COTY.

    If wild card teams are winning titles how is not being the 7-0 media darlings anymore letting the league pass you by? The league today is in favor of the slept on but hard working teams. At least there is no pressure in the playoffs, everyone thinks we can't defend and Brady has no passion, so we can only go up.
  21. FCB02062

    FCB02062 Rookie

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    The original poster should know that one should post things like this at their own peril. Post anything negative about the team, owner, coach, quarterback, Jonathan City down there on Route 1, and you're labeled a Jets fan...
    Back to the original post...I agree with just about everything. I've been a fan of the team since the early/mid 80s and I've sat through the metal benches, pouring rain, driving snow, electrical storms - what have you - as a former season ticket holder for about 18 years or so.
    Considering my family and I have made quite a financial contribution to Krafty Bob and his enterprise down there on Route 1 in Foxboro, I feel I have the right to be critical of the team, the owner, and the players - even moreso than some of the teenage fanboys that started liking the team when Brady started posting good fantasy numbers.
    When the team CONSISTENTLY TRADES DOWN to get value you get junk, broken down players who aren't that good. These players are available in the third and fourth rounds for a reason - because they're not that good. A point that's been sorely missed in this discussion is that in today's NFL, where a db can barely breath on a receiver, it's next to impossible to succeed with guys like Philip Adams and Alex Molden trying to cover guys. Earthwind Moreland, Randall Gay, Hank Poteat, et al., could get by on physicallity - but the NFL doesn't allow that anymore. Who knows, maybe Belichick would have this team in a few more Super Bowls if the league didn't change or enforce the rules differently (thanks Polian/Manning).
    In ten years, people are going to look back at the last 3 or 4 drafts and their jaws will drop when they examine how poorly the defensive side of the ball has been drafted.
    It's a crying shame because Tom Brady should have at least one more Super Bowl under his belt, but because Belichick and his Krafty boss have chosen to build a defense with pennies, not dollars, we have a team that CANNOT WIN unless Brady has a good game. In the "old days" the Patriots could win a game 14-10 with Brady throwing for 140 yards, but not anymore....it's just a damn shame, and the fanboys who're in denial really need to examine things more closely....:mad:
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2011
  22. RodThePat

    RodThePat Rookie

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    First of all this "you post nothing but negative stuff" comment isn't true. Second of all, I love how you can pinpoint how I am as a fan just by what I post in a goddamned message board. Some mystical powers you have there.

    Maybe I should be posting here about how it was awesome that we didn't give up any kickoff returns for touchdowns, or how not every Steelers possession ended on a TD (because that's about all the positive you can take from yesterday's game). However, I prefer to have actual discussions about the team and it's shortcomings, because I'm not a Bill Belichick bobblehead, nodding in agreement with every move he makes.

    In my opinion those who drink the kool aid every day are the ones who ultimately don't care enough about the team to be bothered by the prospect of another failed season. If you think it's alright to lose to Pittsburgh because they are a good team, I've got some news to tell you: you can't win the SuperBowl without beating good teams.

    Maybe I'm spoiled as a fan, but all I'm seeing in 2011 is a team that exacerbates the few weaknesses they had in 2010 (weaknesses that, ultimately, led to a premature playoff exit). It's infuriating to see those same failed aspects of the team's play being repeated over and over again, even in victory. I worry not for next week or the next month, but for our chances of winning another title. I don't want to be like Jets fans, jumping up in joy for reaching the AFC Title game. The 2010 season was entertaining, but ended in disappointment. Maybe that's enough for some, but I always want the best for this team, because I know they can achieve greatness if they overcome some of their faults.
  23. D-Money

    D-Money Rookie

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    There will always be koola-aid drinkers on this board.Belichick has lost his fastball when it comes to defense.His moves are a joke!!!This is an embarrasing defense,It has been an issue for the last 2 years and its still the same.
  24. fluoropolymer

    fluoropolymer Rookie

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    I've been waiting for this thread for awhile... and it's a good one that hopefully will lead to additional threads where we "fans" postulate our possible solutions to the present team inadequacies. I for one would like to see this team get some cornerbacks that actually turn their heads around once in awhile. And wouldn't it be nice to see a middle linebacker or safety be in the right position to stop that wide open crossing pattern in the middle of the field. There are enough knowledgeable Patsfans contributors that ought to be able to help a non-football expert like me understand the ins and outs of coaching, rather than the ever so quick descent into petty bickering, insults, and questions of parenthood.

    I think the Kraft's and BB have done a GREAT job. This is a much more pleasant team to follow than in the 70's, 80's and 90's (although Raymond Berry's team was great to watch - especially stripping the ball). Would I like to win the SB every year... you bet. But I sure enjoy KNOWING that this team is going to be in the thick of things year-in year-out.

    So let's cut posters a little slack, enjoy the comments, and have some discussions that help us all understand what possible solutions might look like.
  25. NEPatriot

    NEPatriot Banned

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    It's my opinion. I'm sorry that you don't find it helpful. And you're right about GB. I watched the Falcons game and when they turn it on it's scary.
  26. D-Money

    D-Money Rookie

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    No elite teams.Thats all i hear from kool-aid fans after this team was whipped on both sides of the ball.All i know is that this team cant stop nobody and the offense has no wrs!!!They are a fluky 5-2 team.Its beyond the record.
  27. NEPatriot

    NEPatriot Banned

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    I would add out coached as well.
  28. stcjones

    stcjones Rookie

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    Here we go....the rose colored glass wearing, footy Patriots pajama donning HOMERS have now been represented. Get realistic Miguel....Pats have alot of issues right now....
  29. PatsFanSince74

    PatsFanSince74 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't guzzle the Kool Aid in good times or spit it out in bad times. As far as I'm concerned and until they demonstrate otherwise, the Pats are still on track for the 12--4 season I predicted before opening day, assuming that they craft a response to the new "man up" defense that every team will now duplicate when playing the Pats. I just don't see the Bills or Jets winning the division and 12--4 or even 11--5 will get that done.

    As for the "Playoffs!," how well they do there will be a function of whether they can put together a defense that learns to play together at a superior level by the end of the season.

    As for yesterday's performance, yeah, the D could have been better, but they kept Big Ben from the end zone several times in the red zone and 27 points, including two on a dubious, last minute safety, isn't really all that bad when you're playing a very good QB who is having a career day. And, we have to credit a very well-designed defensive scheme on the other side of the ball.
  30. MoVaughn4Prez

    MoVaughn4Prez Rookie

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    The fact that that sentiment was from a "moderator" of a fan forum is mind-blowing and just plain laughable.
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