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The Inevitable "Draft Robert Quinn" Thread

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by MrNathanDrake, Sep 29, 2010.

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  1. MrNathanDrake

    MrNathanDrake Rookie

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    First and foremost, Robbert Quinn will easily be a Top 5 Pick.

    So the question is, what pick do we end up with from the Raiders? Without a doubt it will be in the Top 10, but where? As early as the NFL season is, it's hard to say, but I'd be willing to bet it's right around the #5 mark, give or take a couple spots. Cleveland, Jacksonville, Buffalo and Carolina are probably going to have the worst records in the NFL. Detroit and STL have shown some potential to Win some games. SF started out bad but could turn it around as they have a lot of talent. So The Raiders pick could be anywhere from 4 to 9.

    The question is this.. Will there be a Rookie Salary Cap? You have to think it's coming sooner than later, and with alot of changes being made this off-season, this will be something the Owners will push for and the NFLPA won't fight against because it won't affect them.

    If there is not a rookie salary cap I expect BB to trade down as usual. No way he wants to pay a rookie the kind of money they demand these days in the top 10.

    Now if there IS a rookie salary cap, Will BB trade up to draft Quinn? We have tons of ammo to easily pull it off, and we're at a point where we don't need to draft a whole bunch of players. Instead we need 1 or 2 high impact players that can make a different. Robert Quinn fits that profile and also fits BB/Parcells ideal OLB (6'4, 260lbs, former DE). Quinn is probably as close to DeMarcus Ware as any prospect in the past 5 years.

    So would you want to trade both our 1st rd picks to move up and select Quinn? For example: #6 overall and #24 overall, for #2 overall to draft Quinn.


    Keep in mind we would still have Carolina's 2nd round pick which will probably be around #33 to #36 overall.



    Me? I'd do it in a heartbeat (assuming Quinn grades out well in interviews). The one thing our team have lacked in the past few years is someone who could rush the passer. We dont need to trade down anymore and accumulate picks. We are stacked on our depth chart and have so many young players that a 3rd rounder from last year couldnt even make the team (McKenzie). Why stockpile mid rounders who may or may not make the team when we can go after a position we've sorely been lacking and need an upgrade at.




    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNoYxbvKxXE

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqJrjwjf55c
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2010
  2. alphilip77

    alphilip77 Rookie

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    With the way things are going right now, it's definitely possible that Oakland's pick is AT LEAST #6 overall. That being said, if BB likes what he sees in Quinn, we should be able to get him. Here's why:

    So far, the teams that look like they are going to be drafting ahead of us are St. Louis, Carolina, Cleveland, Buffalo, Jacksonville, and Detroit. While having all these teams draft ahead of us would push our pick back, there's a good chance that only 4 will finish worse than Oakland. Looking at each of their needs furthers my reasoning for why we have a shot at Quinn.

    1) St. Louis: They have their QB of the future in Bradford, but they have no playmaker WR for Bradford. I fully expect them to be looking at Julio Jones or AJ Green. Other areas that could definitely could use some improvement are their secondary and their O-line.

    2) Detroit: Their needs are almost identical to St. Louis', except that there is more of a need in the secondary. I expect them to be looking at Peterson or Amukamara.

    3) Carolina: Seeing as they already drafted Jimmy Clausen, Carolina could go a number of ways here. I think it will either be WR (whoever is left of Green and Jones) or D-line. Although they could grab Quinn, I think they will lean towards Marcell Dareus or Cam Heyward.

    4) Cleveland: Either a QB or a WR.

    5) Buffalo: QB

    6) Jacksonville: :confused: IDK, everything's a mess!! Seriously though, I think they'll grab a QB or a CB to replace Rashean Mathis.
  3. Warren94

    Warren94 Rookie

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    Scott Wright's got us taking Von Miller and Mark Ingram in the first round.
  4. Coach42

    Coach42 Rookie

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    2 things, 1.) if there is a rookie salary cap what is it at? It could still be cost prohibitive which means another trade down. 2.) If the cap is reasonable a top five picks trade value completely changes. I'm guessing teams would be reluctant to trade out.
  5. jsull87

    jsull87 Rookie

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    The 1st round teams who i could see taking him are.

    Detroit (Making a very talented front 4) - But i think they'd prefer OL or CB
    Cleveland - But could be thinking QB
    Jacksonville - But could go do anything e.g last year
    Carolina - I think they would go for him or a WR
    Tampa Bay - In my opinion would go WR or DE maybe even RB

    The rest:
    Buffalo - will go QB
    St Louis - WR

    The good thing about this scenario for us is we have a QB and are solid at OT at the moment. These are usually the Blue Chip picks at this spot in the draft. That narrows our picks down to CB, 3-4 DE, 3-4 OLB and maybe WR (Jones or Green). The reason i love this is because say oakland pick 6-8. In my opinion at least 3 of the teams picking infront of us will be picking players we weren't going to pick anyway.

    I could easily see it Going
    1.) Buffalo - QB Luck e.t.c
    2.) St Louis - WR Green
    3.) Detroit - OL Costonzo e.t.c
    4.) Cleveland - DL Clayborne/heyward, CB Peterson, QB
    5.) Tampa - Could Go DE
    6.) Oakland - Us but we would have the number 1 or 2 on our total board
  6. Defsoul

    Defsoul Rookie

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    So what happens if Quinn doesn't declare for the 2011 NFL Draft? Mass suicide among draftniks?
  7. JoeShmoe

    JoeShmoe Rookie

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    Buffalo will stick with Fitzptarick, there favourites for Quinn IMHO
  8. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa Rookie

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  9. Axeshun

    Axeshun Rookie

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    I honestly haven't been following the draft prospects for a while and I don't know much about Quinn. Would you mind filling me in on who exactly this kid is?

    :D
  10. everlong

    everlong Rookie

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    I like Miller for a one gap 3-4 but he's lighter than Hughes and the Pats passed on him. Also Hughes was an all academic.
  11. reamer

    reamer Rookie

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    Sure thing. In high school, Robert Quinn was diagnosed with a brain tumor, and told that he would never be able to play sports of any kind again, let alone the violent collision sport of football. He proved the doctors wrong; not only did he get back on the gridiron, but he went on to win the state heavyweight wrestling championship for the second year in a row. He enrolled at North Carolina, and soon drew comparisons to former UNC great Julius Peppers, whose speed and agility numbers he has apparently surpassed (although that's an unsubstantiated rumor). In his sophomore year, he recorded 11.5 sacks and 19 tackles for a loss, with 64 tackles total--essentially, he lived in the opponent's backfield, and proved relentless as both a pass-rusher and in pursuit on running plays.

    These two short videos should give you an idea of why Pats fans are excited about the prospect of drafting this guy. He would give us an instant Willie McGinest type flying off the edge.

    YouTube - Robert Quinn vs. Anthony Castonzo

    YouTube - Robert Quinn vs. Virginia ('09)

    Enjoy the carnage. :D
  12. WhiteWesWelker88

    WhiteWesWelker88 Banned

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    to early to talk draft.....:eek:
  13. Axeshun

    Axeshun Rookie

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    I haven't watched the videos yet, but man, what an incredible story. Thanks a lot!
  14. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    I did not get excited at watching Quinn play the run. BC had success running striaght at him. He could not anchor or set an edge. He needs to get better against the run to survive in our defense.
  15. reamer

    reamer Rookie

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    I understand that it's a concern, but it didn't seem as bad to me as it did to you. Perhaps we have different standards? I'd like to improve my understanding of the game, though, so if you could point out to me 1) what in particular he does poorly on plays he's pushed back, and 2) how he could improve (hand placement, leverage, technique, etc), I'd appreciate it.

    To be fair, though, he was playing against the consensus #1 tackle in the draft, and seemed to more hold his own for the course of the game.
  16. rookBoston

    rookBoston Rookie

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    I don't see the appeal. Quinn is not a fit for the Pats, regardless of how he interviews. The video shows him playing 4-3 DE, which is precisely what he is. He's gonna end up with Tampa or some crummy team like that.

    Scouting reports have him at 280# which is too light for a DE in our scheme. All our ends are 300-310# on the light side. Warren and Brace are both much heavier. Brace is 330 and could play NT. If he could get it, I think BB would have three athletic NTs across our front.

    If you want to project him as an OLB in our system, we need to see him drop into coverage at least... well at least every once in a while. I would settle for once. He's got great agility to turn the corner in a pass rush, but can he drop backwards and cover a tight end or a running back in the passing game? He's never been asked to do it at NC, that I can tell.

    Let's not get to jazzed about Robert Quinn. I don't think BB is going to switch to a 4-3 base D just to accomodate this guy. And he's not going to spend a top-5 pick to convert 4-3 DE into an OLB prospect, if the guy has never done in college what we're going to ask him to do as a pro.
  17. reamer

    reamer Rookie

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    First off, he's about 260. Second, almost every single pro 34 OLB started off as a DE in college, and very few have experience dropping back into coverage more than once or twice a game. Quinn as the athleticism. Will he be the pick? Probably not. Until then, it's nice to dream about adding a pass-rushing terror to the Patriots.
  18. Taxed in Maine

    Taxed in Maine Rookie

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    Has he even played a single snap this year?? How does he 'improve' while under investigation?

    From what I have seen I agree, just another 4-3 end with a lot of athleticism. I'll pass, especially in the top 10?? Romeus is another 4-3 end that people think can play OLB. Jack Crawford seems to be in the same boat.

    No thanks.
  19. rookBoston

    rookBoston Rookie

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    So I'm not just dissing on Robert Quinn, I thought I'd find someone who feels like a legitimate OLB prospect for us.

    Here's one. Jeremy Beal, 260#
    YouTube - Jeremy Beal vs. Tulsa (2009)

    What I like
    - he plays standing up
    - he plays in a 3-pt stance
    - he gets to the QB
    - he forces a fumble
    - he controls his blocker then sheds to stop the run
    - he drops into coverage

    In the video, he over-pursues a few times, but he impressed me with his discipline against the run. He's 260# and plays for a competitive team. And he flashes some real ability as a pass rusher, too. Versatility is king. And best of all, he's not going to cost us a top-10 pick.

    In this one video, he's shown me more about what we'd need an OLB to do in our scheme than Quinn has. This guy would be probably be starting for us opposite Cunningham if he was on our roster right now.
  20. Defsoul

    Defsoul Rookie

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    I see a lot of Cunningham in Beal. They are about the same size and they have similar playing styles. Both are penetrators, not really speed rushers.
  21. Off The Grid

    Off The Grid Rookie

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    You might want to do a little research and actually get up to speed, before presuming to tell us how to feel about Robert Quinn.
  22. Metaphors

    Metaphors Rookie

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    Here are the things I don't understand about people who don't see Quinn as a fit for the Pats:

    1) Did you see DeMarcus Ware as a fit in 2005? He had the same question marks that Quinn has today (point of attack, playing in space). Not because they can't do it...just because they weren't asked to do it in college. Would you take Ware for the Pats in 2005 if you knew then what you know now? Abso-freakin-lutely.

    2) Are you pining for Clay Matthews? Quinn is bigger, stronger, faster and is 100x more productive in college than Matthews was. Matthews doesn't even pretend to play the run and is more lost in space than the Jupiter 2. Matthews just dives into the backfield hoping that the QB or ball carrier is around when he gets there (that gets you a number of sacks but can also contribute to Kurt Warner laying 50 on you in a playoff game). If you like Matthews, there isn't any possible reason for dissing Quinn. He is more disciplined in his pass rush, has a wider variety of moves, is stronger at the POA and has the length to influence the QB without getting a sack.
  23. D-Money

    D-Money Rookie

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    The guy would instantly bring something to this defense.I would even trade up to get him if possible without giving as much.
  24. Off The Grid

    Off The Grid Rookie

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    PERFECT. :rocker:

    BEAUTIFULLY put!! :rofl:

    It's funny 'cause it's TRUE!! :eek:


    Absolutely VINTAGE post, Brother Metaphor. VINTAGE. :cool:
  25. rookBoston

    rookBoston Rookie

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    Huh? what makes you think he has Demarcus Ware in him?!? Every year there are a dozen 270-280# DEs that get drafted. We haven't had a Demarcus Ware since 2005. Why is Quinn gonna be the next one? I did think well of Ware in 2005, but I still dont see the connection with Quinn. If you want to assume that Quinn is the next Ware, all I can say is that sounds great, but feels like wishful thinking.

    Let's get to the point: Quinn is more like Dwight Freeney than Demarcus Ware. They are all basically the same size. Freeney is skilled, and worth a top-10 pick... for someone. But our D emphasizes Ware skills and not Freeney skills. Trying to play Freeney at OLB would be a waste of time-- he's a 4-3 DE!!!!! That's what he is. Spending the pick on Freeney to convert him to an OLB is a waste of time. Take a guy thats really ready to play OLB.

    Nope, got no remorse over Clay Matthews. I'm skeptical of the entire USC program. And Quinn is not faster. Bigger, stronger yes. They are different players.

    I want players that are strong, athletic, versatile and mentally focused on what it takes to be a pro. Of these traits, the only thing I question for Quinn is versatile. Show me that he can cover a TE on a deep drop, and then we can talk. I just want some film on him covering someone, anyone, in coverage. Hey, Ware did it at Troy!

    Check my post on Jeremy Beal. Explain why you think Quinn is the next Ware and why Beal isn't that guy. Of the two, Beal is the guy I would choose to play in our defensive scheme, no question.
  26. Marqui

    Marqui Rookie

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    I want Quinn on this team so bad. Excellent against both the run and the pass. Perfect player for this defense.
  27. Metaphors

    Metaphors Rookie

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    Not assuming Quinn is the next Ware. That would be foolish. Just saying that his measurables (equal to or better than Ware), production and intangibles all compare nicely to Ware when he was in college. He has shown a variety of pass rush moves against some top OL talent. Any "cons" you place on him, you could probably place against Ware in 2005.

    My point is that you will never get a Demarcus Ware unless you draft him. And you will never draft a Demarcus Ware if you don't take a risk on a top college DE (6'5", 260lb players don't play LB in college) and project him to OLB. Quinn may never reach a Ware level of production as a 3-4 OLB in the NFL...but he looks to be the best chance to meet that expectation since Ware came out in 2005. If you think Quinn isn't worth that risk, I don't know who is.

    Don't even know how to respond to this. You obviously haven't watched Quinn play if you are honestly trying to compare him to Freeney. Freeney was an undersized one-trick pony in college but ran an obscene 40 time. He relies almost completely on speed and moves but is useless when a blocker gets locked on or he gets chipped.

    Quinn is HUGE compared to Freeney. He is fast enough to force an OT to retreat quickly to defend the outside rush...but is also strong enough to bull rush through the OT if their feet don't get set quickly enough (something Freeney doesn't have). Quinn may not be skilled at setting the edge (not asked to at UNC), but he is strong enough to do it. Freeney is a complete liability against the run.

    Quinn is 2 inches taller and 20 lbs heavier (has the frame to put on more weight in the NFL) so I would agree that they are different. I will be surprised if Quinn's speed/quickness numbers don't come in equal to or better than Matthew's...though Quinn may be stuffing his face with twinkees during this suspension, so who knows. Guess we will find out.

    Are you really saying that Ware is an All-Pro because he can drop back and cover? Really? Anyway, that is part of the projection. UNC doesn't ask Quinn to drop into coverage as they have very talented LBs behind him. I'm sure he will be asked to show that at the combine and in private workouts. If he is a complete waste moving backwards, I still want him for the havoc he creates moving forward.

    I'm the wrong person to ask about this since I'm higher on Beal than most. But he doesn't have the physical and athletic upside that Quinn has. Beal may turn out to be a better pro than Quinn and I wouldn't mind seeing Beal taken with that later 1st or early 2nd if the Pats decide to go DE, OT, RB or CB early. Beal doesn't have the physical makeup to be the next Ware, but that is no reason to dismiss what Beal could bring to the Pats. Beal maximizes his skills and adds plus intelligence and leadership to the mix. What's not to like?
  28. rookBoston

    rookBoston Rookie

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    This is unquestionably true. And BB has struggled to find college players to play OLB for him. He has been incredibly picky. That's what makes Cunningham such an intruiging pick, because BB has finally taken a leap of faith, and pulled the trigger on a player at the position. Cunningham was listed 6-4 266 at Florida. He did have responsibilities to set the edge against the run. And he sometimes played standing up, instead of solely in a 3-pt stance.

    Cunningham is unlikely to be the next Demarcus Ware, but I'm still hopeful that he might be the next Roman Phifer. It will take at least another year before we really know.

    And this is the key, in the end.

    I think we agree that Quinn is not a "ready now" 3-4 OLB based on what he does at UNC. You acknowledged that we have to project that he can drop into pass protection, that he can set the edge against the run, two of the things BB expects his OLBs to do.

    But consider what Quinn is going to cost us: a top-5 pick. Based on what we're going to pay him, we need to expect a pro-bowl player and the cornerstone of our franchise for the next 10 years ideally, 6 years minimum. He's got to be pretty close to a sure thing.

    Projecting a DE to OLB is the hardest thing for a 3-4 team to do, because it's a pretty inexact science. Could Quinn do it? Maybe? Are you willing to roll the dice with a pick that we could use on a game changing WR, RB, DT or OT that we KNOW would be a pro-bowler for us?

    It's a judgement call; we may just have to agree to disagree. To me, we spend the pick and the salary, hoping for a guy that will make the transition. If he doesn't, come next draft, we have to do it again. That approach can work with 2nd round selections, but we're only going to have a top-5 pick once every decade. Any player we take in the top-5 will have to match or eclipse what Seymour, Mayo and McGinest have meant to the franchise. The last time we chose a player this high in the draft was Drew Bledsoe, who became the face of the franchise. I have a hard time projecting Robert Quinn as the guy that will be the new cornerstone of our defense, defensive captain and all the stuff that comes with it.

    And this is where we diverge, I think. You're saying even if he doesn't project to OLB, then we should still draft him to be a pass rushing DE. To me, spending a top-5 pick on a guy that only comes onto the field on third down is just not good value.

    Not to make an unflattering comparison, but my mind jumps to Jarvis Green, who played that role for us, and is what Quinn would look like if he bulked up. Quinn would presumably be more disruptive and explosive than Green, but even so... a top-5 pick to play that role?

    And, now we're in agreement again. Beal is a guy that is much easier to project into our defense than Quinn, because we've seen him set the edge, we've seen him drop into coverage, we've seen him take on a block and release to tackle the ball carrier, we've seen him rush the passer and force the ball loose... he's done these things in college and it's all on his game tape.

    Beal is a 6-3 266# college DE that may not be as purely disruptive as Quinn, but a guy I can feel confident will transition well to OLB, a guy I'm willing to spend an early pick on and feel like it is good value.
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2010
  29. Metaphors

    Metaphors Rookie

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    I think Quinn is a prototype 3-4 OLB. He has elite pass rush size, strength, quickness and moves. He holds up well against the run...just not lining up wide and setting the edge since UNC doesn't put him in that position. Not sure what he can do in space since he was never asked to be in space. But this situation is a trap. Quinn is so disruptive in the backfield and he has good to great LBs behind him. That isn't an indictment of him...it is just the reality he finds himself in. Instead of focusing on what you haven't seen him do, focus on what he does at an elite level. It just happens to be the most pressing need for the Pats.

    Totally agree. He is as close to a sure thing as a rush OLB as you are going to find. In base formation, the Pats want their OLBs to be able to drop into coverage so the offense can't tell where the 4th rusher is coming from. If the QB is passing, I want Quinn going after him and I don't care if the offense knows it. In sub packages, the OLBs effectively become DEs anyway.

    I will agree that if he is a Freeney-like liability against the run, don't want him. But I haven't seen any indication that is the case so far.

    Elite 3-4 OLBs don't slip in the draft and you can't trade for them. The only way to get them is to make your best projection and roll the dice. If you don't have the nerve to do that, you end up with a bunch of JAGs forcing your DBs to hold up in converage for 5 seconds every 3rd down.
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2010
  30. rookBoston

    rookBoston Rookie

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    Agreed. There is one other way, that is to sign a UFA to a big contract, or take a UFA and teach him the position. That's how BB got Vrabel onto the team, and that worked well.

    I see Quinn as a roll of the dice. We're probably not going to pick this high again in the BB era. Big implications is it's a bad pick. You're higher on his potential than I am-- I'm suspicious of what I haven't seen him do.

    Your point that he has good LBs behind him is legit-- it's not his fault. That said, in my book, I think it unfortunately makes him less draftable.
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2010
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