The fact that this VERY BAD...doofin team...

[JR4]

guys come on play nice, same team.

right ... I'm having a weak day.

 

[stcjones]

I see you've found someone on your level to talk with... I watched the PC and BB only expressed frustration with the mediot who asked about running up the score.

The hysteria and hystrionics here are just incredible. Some of you should be drummed out of the fan base and forced to root for a loser team as pennance.

Yeah..you are right......thank god there are still intelligent, realistic fans on here......instead of the idealistic meatballs like yourself......

Look at his response as to why Brady had to come in (and even Gutz) and you may get the point..........also......the media never asked him any questions about the D.........

 

[Richter]

"Could they stand to improve? Yes"

Wait a minute.....are you contradicting yourself here? You are correct Rick....there are areas that need to be tightened up prior to us going up against Indy...Pitt....or even the skins next week......them's the facts.......

Yes, I never said there isn't room for improvement. There always is, no one ever plays a perfect game. What I take exception to is the idea that the defense has been bad, or that there is this vast gulf of improvement they need to traverse. I'm not going to sit here and say that the tackling is so awful because guys didn't wrap up too well in the second half of a blowout. See, I don't know if you've ever played sports at any level beyond grade school, but it's very difficult to maintain a high level of play when that scenario arises. You can say that the defense shouldn't be missing tackles at all, but it's going to happen, and it's going to happen a lot more when you're up by three or more touchdowns. Guys lose concentration, they don't quite go full out, it happens. Even for someone that is extremely competitive, like I tend to be, it happens. It's human nature. So no, I'm not jumping off a bridge because the Dolphins put up two garbage time scores.

 

[Richter]

I think that sums up pretty well what a lot of the people in this thread are trying to say.

Is the sky falling with the defense? No, otherwise the games would be MUCH closer.

Is there room for improvement with the defense? Abso-freakin'-loutely. They will, collectively, have to play much better as a unit when the Patriots play Indianapolis, the one team who can hang with them scoreboard-wise.

The defense is a HELL of a lot better than these scores indicate. The folks talking about "garbage time" are right for the most part. Even so, I personally would like to see that defensive intensity for 60 minutes, and I'm sure the coaching staff would as well. Hence, they're gonna get a nice big plate of humble pie this week.

Is the sky falling with the running game? No, it's still a top 10 rushing attack. The Patriots are so successful through the air, it just appears like they can't/don't run.

Is there room for improvement in the run game? You bet. Maroney's injury doesn't seem to be 100% healed yet, and Morris will be out past Indianapolis. It's a banged up group, but I think they're doing pretty well. For my own purposes, I would like to see them run more in the 2nd half and kill clock to keep the defense of the field, but then again, I'm not being paid multi-millions to make these decisions, so I think Belichick might have some idea as to what he's doing.

The problem is, it makes no sense to say that the defense has to play better against the Colts than it did against the Dolphins when the score was 42-7. You're comparing apples to oranges. Of course they'll need to play better than they did in the second half, but do you really think the second half is indicative of the sort of effort they'll put forth when the game against the Colts starts 0-0? That's what annoys me, you just can't say that because of what happened in the second half today, that the defense needs to play better in general, or that we can expect to be trashed by the Colts.

 

[RayClay]

your extrapolation is a non sequitur.

Since you decide to respond degradingly I'll follow suit.
All your wonderful math does not fix the run defense displayed by the
PATs today. But be happy you can add and multiply but you apparently should leave logic and deduction to someone else.

Somebody got a Thesaurus for Christmas. I'm impressed!

 

[TommyD4207]

The problem is, it makes no sense to say that the defense has to play better against the Colts than it did against the Dolphins when the score was 42-7. You're comparing apples to oranges. Of course they'll need to play better than they did in the second half, but do you really think the second half is indicative of the sort of effort they'll put forth when the game against the Colts starts 0-0? That's what annoys me, you just can't say that because of what happened in the second half today, that the defense needs to play better in general, or that we can expect to be trashed by the Colts.

That's not really what I said.
There's 2 ways to look at the Patriots defense in the 2nd half:

1) They took their foot off the gas, and coasted until the game was over.

-That would be fine, and I would accept that if you were talking about any other team, but let me ask you, how often have you seen a Belichick-led team in ANY phase of the game coast through until the end? I don't know that I've ever seen it.

2) They got tired in the 2nd half.

-It was 80+ degrees, and very humid, and they were on their 2nd straight road game. It wouldn't shock me if this were the case either. Now normally, this wouldn't be a big deal, and to be honest, it still might not be; but I remember a defense that was sucking wind in the 2nd half of the AFCCG last year, the same defense which gave up 32 points in the second half. I can see where some on here who make the connection between the two.

Bottom Line: I'm not going to worry until the Patriots are actually pushed in a game, and it's attributable to the defense or the lack of a running game. Right now, they're just KILLING EVERYONE. I'm going to enjoy it. I know that there is at least one team on the schedule that will give the Patriots a game this year, and a lot of times, I FORGET that this is the Kraft/Belichick/Brady Patriots, not the Kiam/Rust/Wilson Patriots, where anything that could go wrong, did. But until some team gets within 21 points of them at the end, I'm really not going to stress it.

It *is* food for thought though.

 

[Richter]

That's not really what I said.
There's 2 ways to look at the Patriots defense in the 2nd half:

1) They took their foot off the gas, and coasted until the game was over.

-That would be fine, and I would accept that if you were talking about any other team, but let me ask you, how often have you seen a Belichick-led team in ANY phase of the game coast through until the end? I don't know that I've ever seen it.

2) They got tired in the 2nd half.

-It was 80+ degrees, and very humid, and they were on their 2nd straight road game. It wouldn't shock me if this were the case either. Now normally, this wouldn't be a big deal, and to be honest, it still might not be; but I remember a defense that was sucking wind in the 2nd half of the AFCCG last year, the same defense which gave up 32 points in the second half. I can see where some on here who make the connection between the two.

Bottom Line: I'm not going to worry until the Patriots are actually pushed in a game, and it's attributable to the defense or the lack of a running game. Right now, they're just KILLING EVERYONE. I'm going to enjoy it. I know that there is at least one team on the schedule that will give the Patriots a game this year, and a lot of times, I FORGET that this is the Kraft/Belichick/Brady Patriots, not the Kiam/Rust/Wilson Patriots, where anything that could go wrong, did. But until some team gets within 21 points of them at the end, I'm really not going to stress it.

It *is* food for thought though.

Um, I don't know if you have an overly idealized view of the Patriots, but I've seen this team take their foot off the gas pedal in blowouts before. Heck, it came back to bite them in the ass in 2004 against the Dolphins. Now, the defense getting tired argument does hold some weight. It was hot, and they were out there a lot, especially because the offense kept scoring quickly.

 

[Pat_Nasty]

I feel like watching the soft D we played in the 2nd half, and with the offense having stolen the show in the first half, we're forgetting just how good a first half the defense had.

Look at all Miami's first half drives:

5 plays, 2 yards, fumble
9 plays, 79 yards, touchdown
3 plays, 3 yards, punt
4 plays, 11 yards, punt
3 plays, 0 yards, punt
5 plays, 11 yards, punt

They had six drives, and five of them gained 11 yards or fewer. You can't ask a D for more than that.

As for the problems in the 2nd half, with the score 42-7 going into the half, it's pretty clear the Pats D was primarily concerned with preventing the quick score, which they did.

 

[DaBruinz]

They put up 21, not 28. One TD was defensive. And two came in garbage time. These complaints about the defense are so incredibly stupid.

Richter -
How dare you question the wisdom of STCJones? I mean, he's so brilliant that I hear from my sister's boyfriend's mother's brother's uncle's cousin twice removed that Pioli was on the phone to STC to hire him to replace the Pats scouting staff because STC can judge that Cassel is a bust after seeing one play where Cassel threw a pick.

 

[DaBruinz]

TD's are TD's...no matter how they are generated..........are you CONVINCED that that was our team "PULLING" back? I don't see it....

Spoken like a moron who has no understanding of the game. Good job.

 

[DaBruinz]

great post.....insightful and deeply thought out,....just like all of yours.......at least you are consistent

Considering that you don't put thought into YOUR posts, you aren't one to talk about the posts of other people.

 

[DaBruinz]

Finally a voice of reason.........these friggin homers on here have ruined this board.....gawd forbid you post any REALISTIC post on here anymore.....gets their little panties in a bunch and cracks their little rose colored glasses......Good to see a true fan on here JR.....where you been? Where are the rest of the "originals"??? Alot of good football minds in the past on this board....sad to see what it has become.........no one can take any criticism..........thanks for your post JR.....wish there were more like them!!!!

Well, 1st off, there was NOTHING realistic about your post. You and JR4 BOTH had major screw ups in them, basically making them worthless and the points lost.

You certainly aren't one of the good football minds because you are too worried about being chicken-little.

I can take criticism just fine. I've made plenty of criticizing remarks about the Patriots. But I make sure I have factual support for my premise. Something that you seem to have failed at.

 

[PF1996]

I feel like watching the soft D we played in the 2nd half, and with the offense having stolen the show in the first half, we're forgetting just how good a first half the defense had.

Look at all Miami's first half drives:

5 plays, 2 yards, fumble
9 plays, 79 yards, touchdown
3 plays, 3 yards, punt
4 plays, 11 yards, punt
3 plays, 0 yards, punt
5 plays, 11 yards, punt

They had six drives, and five of them gained 11 yards or fewer. You can't ask a D for more than that.

As for the problems in the 2nd half, with the score 42-7 going into the half, it's pretty clear the Pats D was primarily concerned with preventing the quick score, which they did.

Did you even watch the game?

The first drive, the Dolphins were moving at will until Cameron called a stupid pitchout which cost them 3 yards. After that play, dumb Lemons DROPPED the ball and the Pats luckily recovered the fumble. That cost them a -11 yards. The Pats D did NOTHING on that drive, except fall on a dropped ball.

3rd drive ended due to a penalty - the Dolphins would have had a first down had they not gotten a penalty

4th drive, Lemons missed a WIDE OPEN Ginn, a throw that at least 50% of NFL QBs make. Samuel did make a couple of plays on that drive but the only reason the Dolphins didn't score was the Dolphins.

rest of the first half, Lemons missed WIDE OPEN recivers time and time again. Again, at least 50% of other QBs complete those throws.

By the way, if the Pats D wanted to "prevent the quick score", what's your excuse for why they allowed TDs once the Dolphins got in/close to the red zone? Did they not want to prevent TDs or did they not care?

Here's a basic fact that many homers seem incapable of grasping. The inability of the atrocioius Dolphins' offense to make plays in the first half doesn't mean that the Pats D played well.

 

[DaBruinz]

???????????????????????????

Let try it again ...

In the first Quarter the PATs were trying to stop R.Brown.

They could not do it as he ran for 6.2yds/carry.

They had a similar problem last week. Wilfork said
' they were not tackling well but they fixed it this week in practice"

They obviouly did NOT fix it ......

Not saying it is a major problem .... am saying it is a concern when a team
tries to something and it can't.

If they can not stop Colts run better than they played today ... that
could be a big problem.

I hope BB can find out why this happened and fix it because you can bet
Colts are going to want to see how R.Brown was able to get 6.2yds/carry.

How about you do some more research there chumly?

1) Ronnie Brown had 39 yards on 7 carries. That is 5.57 yards per carry. Not 6.2 per your claim.

2) The Pats were up 14 to nothing at the time. On their way to scoring 28 straight points in the 2nd quarter. THAT took Ronnie Brown out of the game, basically.

3) Through the next 10 carries, Ronnie Brown got 34 yards. He ended up with 17 carries for 73 yards.. 4.29 yards per carry. Not great for the Pats, but the Pats were up 42-7 by that point.

4) I can tell you WHY it happened. There was ONE carry that Brown had where Shelton pulled Warren's jersey. PULLED.. Shelton was beaten and Warren couldn't get to the play. And the refs didn't call it. Just like on Cobbs run, they didn't call Shelton for holding Harrison, though it was clear as daylight.

 

[PF1996]

Well, 1st off, there was NOTHING realistic about your post. You and JR4 BOTH had major screw ups in them, basically making them worthless and the points lost.

You certainly aren't one of the good football minds because you are too worried about being chicken-little.

I can take criticism just fine. I've made plenty of criticizing remarks about the Patriots. But I make sure I have factual support for my premise. Something that you seem to have failed at.

What were the "major screwups" in either post? What wasn't "realistic" about either post? How are the posts "worthless and points lost"? Are you another Bush supporter? I ask because you also display the typical Bush supporter trait of presuming that just because you proclaim something to be true, that it makes it true. Unfortunately for you, that isn't the case.

Stcjones claimed the defense allowed 28 points, rather than 21. Big freaking deal. Doesn't in anyway take away from his points about the defense because 21 points to an atrocious Miami team (which put up all of 16 against pitiful Houston) is not a sign of good defense. JR said that the score was 14/7 in the first qtr. Well, it was actually 14/7, three seconds into the second quarter. Being off by 3 seconds isn't a "major screwup" and doesn't make the point about the D being poor "worthless", because the defense gave up a TD within 1 qtr and 3 seconds.

What facts have you presented for your "premise"? I'll say again...simply making a claim doesn't make that claim true. Hopefully, you're a quick learner.

 

[nowayback]

yup...and they put up 7 when it counted....in the 1st half. next opponent please :rocker:

 

[ALP]

i missed the game, but when i saw the score, i worried about the D...i noticed we only let up 7 in the half, which was fine with me...but then let up 21 in the second half, (essintially 14)...

u guys are saying we didnt really play defense in the second half? makes me feel better...cuz if we WERE playing defense, and we let up 14 points in 2 quarters to a miami team w/o ronnie brown would have been bad

 

[DaBruinz]

What were the "major screwups" in either post? What wasn't "realistic" about either post? How are the posts "worthless and points lost"? Are you another Bush supporter? I ask because you also display the typical Bush supporter trait of presuming that just because you proclaim something to be true, that it makes it true. Unfortunately for you, that isn't the case.

Gee.. I would say having the SCORE wrong is as major screw up. And if you can't get your facts right, then your point is LOST because its not nearly what you make of it.

As your your idiotic political garbage, take your scumbag arse back to the political forum if you are going to make assinine comments like that. Typical of a person who couldn't win a debate to save their life.

Stcjones claimed the defense allowed 28 points, rather than 21. Big freaking deal.

It IS a big deal. Because the 1st team defense did NOT give up 28 points. Hell, they didn't give up 21. They gave up 14. And the second defense gave up the other 7.

Doesn't in anyway take away from his points about the defense because 21 points to an atrocious Miami team (which put up all of 16 against pitiful Houston) is not a sign of good defense. JR said that the score was 14/7 in the first qtr. Well, it was actually 14/7, three seconds into the second quarter. Being off by 3 seconds isn't a "major screwup" and doesn't make the point about the D being poor "worthless", because the defense gave up a TD within 1 qtr and 3 seconds.

Actually, it DOES take away from his point because the Pats defense went into PREVENT mode. You'd know that if you actually watched the game and didn't just stat troll.

What facts have you presented for your "premise"? I'll say again...simply making a claim doesn't make that claim true. Hopefully, you're a quick learner.

Well, you sure as hell aren't a quick learner nor are you that intelligent. I made no PREMISE other than looking at the facts that the Pats #1 defense did NOT let up 28 points. They let up 14. I also look at the FACT that on Chatman's run and on Cobbs run, Wilfork wasn't on the field. I also look at the fact that on the 2nd TD, Marvin Harrison would have made the stop had LJ Shelton not wrapped him in a bear hug. That's called HOLDING. Its a PENALTY. You might actually want to learn something about the game before opening your mouth to defend an idiot's chicken little rantings.

 

[patsox23]

stcJones is correct to be concerned about the PATs defense.

Against teams like Miami it doesn't matter. But when they go up against teams like the Colts that can score and have a good RB .... it IS a concern.

To bring some of you back to reality.

1. PATs went into this game trying to stop R.Brown.
2. Wilfork said thy had tackling problem against the BOYs but
they got it fix this week.
3. No one can say that in the 1ST Q the PATs D was not trying because
of the points

yet at the end of the 1st Q with the score 14 to 7
the PATs D was allowing R.Brown to run for an average of 6.2yds/carry.

It is a concern ... not saying it will remain a problem ....
but as of today .. it is a concern.:rocker:

Lets hope BB can find the cause of the problem and fix it.

thank you stcJones for your very correct observation.

You had me until that last part. It's perfectly acceptable to express concern, the D needs to tighten up. But stcjones' observation is hardly "very correct." It is breathlessly panicky and pathetic. This ALL or NOTHING B.S. is new to this site over the last 2-3 years and it's F-ing useless and lame.

There is middle ground. It's a concern but not a crisis. I expect they'll fix it to some degree, but it's not simply a matter of "trying hard" next time or anything. People need to relax and stop leaning toward the fringe of either argument. Sack up, people. On both sides.

 

[RayClay]

That's not really what I said.
There's 2 ways to look at the Patriots defense in the 2nd half:

1) They took their foot off the gas, and coasted until the game was over.

-That would be fine, and I would accept that if you were talking about any other team, but let me ask you, how often have you seen a Belichick-led team in ANY phase of the game coast through until the end? I don't know that I've ever seen it.

2) They got tired in the 2nd half.

-It was 80+ degrees, and very humid, and they were on their 2nd straight road game. It wouldn't shock me if this were the case either. Now normally, this wouldn't be a big deal, and to be honest, it still might not be; but I remember a defense that was sucking wind in the 2nd half of the AFCCG last year, the same defense which gave up 32 points in the second half. I can see where some on here who make the connection between the two.

Bottom Line: I'm not going to worry until the Patriots are actually pushed in a game, and it's attributable to the defense or the lack of a running game. Right now, they're just KILLING EVERYONE. I'm going to enjoy it. I know that there is at least one team on the schedule that will give the Patriots a game this year, and a lot of times, I FORGET that this is the Kraft/Belichick/Brady Patriots, not the Kiam/Rust/Wilson Patriots, where anything that could go wrong, did. But until some team gets within 21 points of them at the end, I'm really not going to stress it.

It *is* food for thought though.

3. They were up 42-7, so they played a prevent defense, meaning sitting their strong point, their linemen, while allowing the strong point of Mia., (Ronnie Brown, athleticism of Lemon) to shine.

Why did they do this?

They were up 42-7

Rinse, Repeat