The big decision for Belichick

[mgteich]

Soon the last of the rookies will be signed and in camp. All the numbers are known regarding our free agent signings and veteran re-signings. The Brady contract terms will be known to the team (even if they are not yet official).
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The back office folks can produce the spreadhseets on some future cap scenarios.
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THEN THE DECISION

How much compensation is Mankins worth to the patriots? How much guaranteed monies is he worth to the patriots? Should Mankins be approached with a new offer?

This decision may already have been made. In any case, the decision could be re-visited at any time. Training camp and preseson play by the team's other guards might inform this decision.

In the end, the decision is not about apologies and bad feelings. The decision is about the best business interest of the patriots.

For me, the issue is clear. Mankins is greatly needed in 2010, 2011 and thereafter.
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[IcyPatriot]

ESPN could do a show on it ... "The Decision ... Mankins at bay".

 

[Schmo]

ESPN could do a show on it ... "The Decision ... Mankins at bay".

I think this is a brilliant idea, but there will be 2 noticeable differences:

1) the show would be over after 27 seconds (Mankins strikes me as that kind of guy)

2) There will be a championship ring in-frame.

 

[PatriotsInGA]

I think this is a brilliant idea, but there will be 2 noticeable differences:

1) the show would be over after 27 seconds (Mankins strikes me as that kind of guy)

2) There will be a championship ring in-frame.

But, they would have to but two 13.5 second halves. They gotta sponsor it somehow

 

[patfanken]

Very funny, but back to the point.

The Pats should offer the same deal as before only guarantee more money, or more money up front and then let Mankins decide. Upping the guarantee saves Mankins and the agent some face. However that should be it. If he doesn't take the deal, allow the agent to shop him a la Branch and get what you can (hold out for at least a 2nd).

What pisses me off is his outrage. I can understand his ego demands top money, but they are offering him top 5 money. That's not an insult, its just a disagreement. I don't understand the "outrage"

 

[Water Boy]

In the salary cap era, I don't like the idea of paying an offensive guard $7 million or more.

 

[mgteich]

Public statements during negotiations make little difference to me. What I do understand is that Mankins is never injured and is one of the best OG's in the nfl.

I agree that we should make a decision, make a new offer, and then move on with a trade if agreement cannot be reached.

I do not judge what is the right amount. Belichick decides what Mankins is worth to the team compared to playing without him. Besides, average annual reported compensation amounts mean nothing. Guranteed money is key, as well as incentives and whether the contract is backloaded.

Personally, I think that the leading lineman on a top 5 OL is worth $8M a year. I understand that he doesn't play LT, but the reality is that it is Mankins rather than Light that is the key to the production on the left side of the line.

Very funny, but back to the point.

The Pats should offer the same deal as before only guarantee more money, or more money up front and then let Mankins decide. Upping the guarantee saves Mankins and the agent some face. However that should be it. If he doesn't take the deal, allow the agent to shop him a la Branch and get what you can (hold out for at least a 2nd).

What pisses me off is his outrage. I can understand his ego demands top money, but they are offering him top 5 money. That's not an insult, its just a disagreement. I don't understand the "outrage"

 

[RussFrancis]

Mankins is done with this team. He sealed his own fate with his ignorant comments. He will not play for us again. Only question now with him is what kind of pick we end with after the trade.

 

[plk]

I can understand his ego demands top money, but they are offering him top 5 money.

I do not normally quote Ron Borges except to make fun of him, but I do believe that he may occasionally have bits of accurate information.

Last night, on Sports Tonight, Ron Borges said that we don't really know what Logan Mankins has been offered. He said that when you ask the Patriots about the details of the offer to Mankins, they don't say anything. Hopefully, we all know that X million dollars for Y years is absolutely meaningless without the details.

If anyone has a link to a report that they trust that gives the details of the offer to Mankins, I wish they would post it.

I am not picking on the above quote. This lack of information has been a problem through the entire discussion of Mankins' contract.

 

[mgteich]

I am certainly glad that belichick and Kraft do not run their team and business as you would, firing players because of ignorant comments. Many players made them and played for years, certainly including Bruschi, McGinest and Law.

To some, it is not public comments by non-ctracted players that are important. It is contributions by contracted players. Mankins is a good a guard as we have had under Belichick, by far.

Mankins is done with this team. He sealed his own fate with his ignorant comments. He will not play for us again. Only question now with him is what kind of pick we end with after the trade.

 

[Fogbuster]

This is a pity. So many quality -- and vital -- players going out the door, year after year. Was the Richard Seymour loss a good thing?? The Pats' D, particularly the pass rush, is limping. The "rush" is no threat anymore. Tully Banta-Cain?? How can the Pats go up against top-ranked offenses (Colts, Saints, even the Jets), without a pass rush and expect to dominate??

Now the offensive line, particularly the critical LEFT side. Mankins stays healthy and he does top 5 work, so just pay the man. The Pats are not going to find another Mankins in free agency. Prolly not even close.

Or are they?

 

[RussFrancis]

I am certainly glad that belichick and Kraft do not run their team and business as you would, firing players because of ignorant comments. Many players made them and played for years, certainly including Bruschi, McGinest and Law.

To some, it is not public comments by non-ctracted players that are important. It is contributions by contracted players. Mankins is a good a guard as we have had under Belichick, by far.

When Belichick and Kraft re-sign Mankins, you can tell me how wrong I was. But when a man basically calls you a LIAR, challenges your "word", accuses you essentially of having no integrity, youre probably going to end that particular business relationship. Kinda makes it hard to want to pay that guy high-end money. So, lets see how this plays out.

Maybe "ignorant" wasnt the greatest choice of words. "Entirely unacceptable" was probably alot more accurate.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

The Pats should offer the same deal as before only guarantee more money, or more money up front and then let Mankins decide. Upping the guarantee saves Mankins and the agent some face. However that should be it. If he doesn't take the deal, allow the agent to shop him a la Branch and get what you can (hold out for at least a 2nd).

I for one do not 'know' what the Pats offered Mank. I do agree with the thought to sweeten the deal up front slightly thus seting the table for Mankins & his agent to state that the Pats made a new, better offer.

But you should read MoLewisRocks posts about the Branch 'mistake'. The Pats will not again put themselves in a position where faux trade offers by perfidious folks like the JESTs set bottom line conditions for departure of a talent. Should Logan hold out, the Pats should keep in control, be patient and await his return week 10 (for FA vesting purposes) where he can help thru the playoffs, as they should have done in retrospect with The Twig.

 

[mgteich]

If the RFA rules of the new CBA are the same as in this one, Mankins will be a UFA next year. He already has his four years of service required. This year was an exception and six years of service was required to be a UFA.

I for one do not 'know' what the Pats offered Mank. I do agree with the thought to sweeten the deal up front slightly thus seting the table for Mankins & his agent to state that the Pats made a new, better offer.

But you should read MoLewisRocks posts about the Branch 'mistake'. The Pats will not again put themselves in a position where faux trade offers by perfidious folks like the JESTs set bottom line conditions for departure of a talent. Should Logan hold out, the Pats should keep in control, be patient and await his return week 10 (for FA vesting purposes) where he can help thru the playoffs, as they should have done in retrospect with The Twig.

 

[Armen Da Pats Fan]

I agree we need Mankins.

I think he is our best offensive lineman, although I do think he (or his agent) have over-estimated his worth.

That said, I don't think the Pats mind overpaying for someone they feel is important to their overall scheme.

The only thing that worries me now about the Mankins situation is that he may have played his hand wrong by calling out the Pats, Kraft, Belichick, etc.

He may have entered Terry Glenn/Adalius Thomas territory with that move.

 

[mgteich]

If our best linemen in a decade puts himself in the same category as Thomas by the statements he's made, then if I were Mankins I wouldn't sign with the patriots under any circumstances.

Mankins has done everything that he possbily could have ON THE FIELD, with no injuries. He tremendously helps out the play of Koppen and Light. He is NOT under contract to the patriots. Therefore, he is free to say what he chooses, and the patriots are free to respond as they choose.

If the patriots ownership wants to value public subservience and loyalty (by an unsigned player during negotiations) more than production on the field, then I think this says a lot about patriot ownership and their priorities.
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I suspect that the patriots simply do not want to pay what Mankins wants to charge for his services. If that is the case, the patriots should move on. If the Front Office would like to pout for a month before acting, then so be it. The ball is in the court of the patriots. If nothing happens, Mankins will play for a new team in 2011, one that values guards more than the patriots. Mankins will likely earn less money over his career, but he will be more appreciated.
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Folks have compared this situation to Branch. There are at least TWO major differences. Mankins is not under contract to the patriots, and Mankins will not lose his UFA status by not showing up at all this year.

I agree we need Mankins.

I think he is our best offensive lineman, although I do think he (or his agent) have over-estimated his worth.

That said, I don't think the Pats mind overpaying for someone they feel is important to their overall scheme.

The only thing that worries me now about the Mankins situation is that he may have played his hand wrong by calling out the Pats, Kraft, Belichick, etc.

He may have entered Terry Glenn/Adalius Thomas territory with that move.

 

[spacecrime]

The Pats should offer the same deal as before only guarantee more money, or more money up front and then let Mankins decide.

Nooooooooo.

Don't offer him more. They already offered too much. $7 mil for a guard? If they are going to pay someone $8+ mil a year, then get Woodley off the Stillers.

Woodley would have a bigger impact on the Pats than Mankins.