The BEST New England defense yet?

[VJCPatriot]

I've been thinking it over, and this could be the YEAR that this Pats defense becomes the most dominating unit in the NFL.

Up front of course we've got the established vet talents now in Seymour, Warren, and Wilfork. Jarvis Green and Mike Wright will be backing them up. Maybe that Guyton guy can get some minutes if he makes the roster.

The biggest difference though is in the linebackers corps. This unit just got a whole lot younger, faster, and talented.

Mayo is a top 10 pick and figures to man the middle with true sideline to sideline speed. When's the last time we've had that? Hobson and Bruschi are also in the starting rotation. Seau hopefully will make a comeback. But we have the flexibility to move Vrable or even Thomas inside if need be.

Now check out the outside linebackers. Starters Thomas and Vrabel. OLB is Thomas natural position and I believe that he will prosper there this year. With another year of the system under his belt expect AD to start to dominate some games with his talent. The main backups are Pierre Woods and Shawn Crable. Crable is very athletic, tall, and long. BB feels that Crable is a lot like Woods, so you've got some talented youngsters backing up.

The secondary is pretty much the same, minus samuel but plus Wheatley, Wilhite and a couple of free agent corners. The corner quality is dropped off a bit with the loss of Samuel but the safeties look to be better this year. Harrison and Sanders are the vets here, but look for former 1st round pick Meriweather to challenge for playing time, and likely winning a spot eventually. Tank Williams is a physical young safety with something to prove, and Slater has the flexibility to fill in at safety as well if needed.

In summary, the 3-4 defense needs solid DL to function, and I believe we have that base covered. But the 3-4 really shines when you get serious talent into the linebacker unit. The Pats have that infusion of speed and talent now in the form of Mayo, Crable, and Woods. I expect this defense to dominate ballgames and pitch a few shutouts. 2007 will be remembered as the year of the offense, but 2008 will be remembered as the year of the defense.

 

[Tunescribe]

I've been thinking it over, and this could be the YEAR that this Pats defense becomes the most dominating unit in the NFL.

Up front of course we've got the established vet talents now in Seymour, Warren, and Wilfork. Jarvis Green and Mike Wright will be backing them up. Maybe that Guyton guy can get some minutes if he makes the roster.

The biggest difference though is in the linebackers corps. This unit just got a whole lot younger, faster, and talented.

Mayo is a top 10 pick and figures to man the middle with true sideline to sideline speed. When's the last time we've had that? Hobson and Bruschi are also in the starting rotation. Seau hopefully will make a comeback. But we have the flexibility to move Vrable or even Thomas inside if need be.

Now check out the outside linebackers. Starters Thomas and Vrabel. OLB is Thomas natural position and I believe that he will prosper there this year. With another year of the system under his belt expect AD to start to dominate some games with his talent. The main backups are Pierre Woods and Shawn Crable. Crable is very athletic, tall, and long. BB feels that Crable is a lot like Woods, so you've got some talented youngsters backing up.

The secondary is pretty much the same, minus samuel but plus Wheatley, Wilhite and a couple of free agent corners. The corner quality is dropped off a bit with the loss of Samuel but the safeties look to be better this year. Harrison and Sanders are the vets here, but look for former 1st round pick Meriweather to challenge for playing time, and likely winning a spot eventually. Tank Williams is a physical young safety with something to prove, and Slater has the flexibility to fill in at safety as well if needed.

In summary, the 3-4 defense needs solid DL to function, and I believe we have that base covered. But the 3-4 really shines when you get serious talent into the linebacker unit. The Pats have that infusion of speed and talent now in the form of Mayo, Crable, and Woods. I expect this defense to dominate ballgames and pitch a few shutouts. 2007 will be remembered as the year of the offense, but 2008 will be remembered as the year of the defense.

Wish I could share your optimism. This defense has a long, long way to go. Both the linebacking and backfield are in a state of flux. Anytime you bring rookies and journeymen free agents into the equation there's going to be a period of adjustment and chemistry building. If we had solid returning vets at corner and inside linebacker I'd feel much better about our prospects. The skills of Bruschi and Rodney are diminishing, Hobson is OK but not a dominating player, depth at OLB is suspect, Hobbs is very average and his counterpart on the other side has yet to be named. The only solid unit is the line. I'd rate the current defensive roster as average until it proves otherwise.

 

[JoePats]

I don't know about best in the NFL, but it will be up there. But I do think this year's D will be the best Patriots defense since the last Super Bowl team of 2004.

Clearly the biggest reason to me is depth at linebacker, combined with what I'm thinking would be an improved pass rush with Thomas outside full time this season.

But also the DL guys could still be in their growth phase, along with Seymour hopefully healthy, and 2nd year Meriweather in the secondary. There is plenty of reason to be optimistic.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

IMO Its really stupid to talk about having the most dominating defense when you are talking about a LB with several rookies who are UNPROVEN - What does youth and speed have anything to do with agility and playing with the big boys until they prove they are NFL Quality?.

I have yet to see Mayo and Crable play a down and you have a Detroit Lions,Buffalo Bills and San Fran 49ers rejects at CB - Unless this coaching group does something to resurrect thier average at best careers of those guys from other teams,we have ALOT to see to even think this defense will be anything near dominating - I would be happy to see wins like 34-31 this year then the fantasy several times shutouts you talk about with rookies and replacements all over this D,I want to know how you think this defense will be anything near 2004 and how you know what a rookie will do - hell its not even training camp yet.

You also have Seymour who has been near invisible the past 3 years with injuries and lackluster play at times and Harrison gets another year older as well as Bruschi

The OP is simply homerville dreaming in early May and nothing more - How about lets wait till at least week 5 before we say the defense is anything more than average?

In general all I can say is you better hope the rejects from other teams and our rookies become good fast or this defense may take a while to get back to 2003/2004 type seasons -Like I said I expect NOTHING good or bad till late october and then we will know quite a bit on what we got on D.

 

[JoePats]

The point is there have been a few additions, combined with several key players being in the growth stages of their careers, and only one significant contributor is gone. Of course Mayo and Wheatley are unproven. But Mayo, more than Wheatley obviously, should be expected at least to provide depth at the position, and he'll play significant time.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

The point is there have been a few additions, combined with several key players being in the growth stages of their careers, and only one significant contributor is gone. Of course Mayo and Wheatley are unproven. But Mayo, more than Wheatley obviously, should be expected at least to provide depth at the position, and he'll play significant time.

Mayo will play alot at LB but have you seen him play 1 full game or even seen him in contact in pads?

BB has had a good past in picking 1st rounders but success is NEVER guaranteed and even having a slightly above average player as a 1st rounder starting is a success - Most LBs in this years draft will make probably not make an immediate impact,some of them will not even make thier team - You just have to pray Mayo is one of those guys that does have that kind of impact quickly.

Of course depth is always good to have,As long as that depth has had shown some talent in the pros - Jarvis Green is one of those guys that has had IT as far as depth goes.

Its only May,Fantasizing is all you can do right now.

 

[BradyManny]

IMO Its really stupid to talk about having the most dominating defense when you are talking about a LB with several rookies who are UNPROVEN - What does youth and speed have anything to do with agility and playing with the big boys until they prove they are NFL Quality?

Gee, I don't know, let's ask Tom Brady what he thinks of Tuck and Osi right now. Youth and speed won the Super Bowl last season. PatsfaninPA, man you are a true glass half empty kind of guy, every post you make aims to suggest the 2008 Patriots have no chance at success.

VJC - I am with you 100%, I do believe this defense will be improved from last season - tremendously - and has a chance to be the best D the Pats have seen under BB, which says a lot.

 

[PatRiot]

the defence will be in the top 5 next year for sure IF they can stay healthy.

 

[BelichickFan]

The only doubt in my mind is if we can replace Samuel's (who replaced Law's) INTs. I realize stops are good too but the INTs do matter and right now the only guy who's resume says he can do it is 2nd round pick Wheatley.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Gee, I don't know, let's ask Tom Brady what he thinks of Tuck and Osi right now. Youth and speed won the Super Bowl last season. PatsfaninPA, man you are a true glass half empty kind of guy, every post you make aims to suggest the 2008 Patriots have no chance at success.

VJC - I am with you 100%, I do believe this defense will be improved from last season - tremendously - and has a chance to be the best D the Pats have seen under BB, which says a lot.

Where do I say the Pats have no chance of success? - Where did you see this?

A guy makes a claim that this defense may be the best of all time in the BB era and is full of unproven players in this system and besides its only May while none of these players have even played a down and I am wrong to say wait until we seen the D gel as a group?

This specualtion about the best defense is just pure stupidity with nothing to base it on but simple brainless homerism and nothing more - or back it up with proof that the rookies and rejected players will shine immediately with something other than 'as long as its a BB team the defense will be dominating BS'

Sometimes homers really go so far it makes no sense at all - If this team is in the top 10 in by late october I will agree with the sentiment here - Until then you are walking the yellow brick road hoping your wishes come true

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Gee, I don't know, let's ask Tom Brady what he thinks of Tuck and Osi right now. Youth and speed won the Super Bowl last season. PatsfaninPA, man you are a true glass half empty kind of guy, every post you make aims to suggest the 2008 Patriots have no chance at success.

VJC - I am with you 100%, I do believe this defense will be improved from last season - tremendously - and has a chance to be the best D the Pats have seen under BB, which says a lot.

BTW- Osimenyura is a bonafide Pro Bowler and you are comparing that to a Rookie LB or Fernando Bryant? - This is ridiculous - get a grip

 

[BradyManny]

BTW- Osimenyura is a bonafide Pro Bowler and you are comparing that to a Rookie LB or Fernando Bryant? - This is ridiculous - get a grip

I'm saying that Osi is young and fast. Tuck is even younger and fast. Mayo and Crable are both young and fast. You asked what getting younger and faster had to do with winning - I just told you.

 

[BradyManny]

This specualtion about the best defense is just pure stupidity with nothing to base it on but simple brainless homerism and nothing more - or back it up with proof that the rookies and rejected players will shine immediately with something other than 'as long as its a BB team the defense will be dominating BS'

Of course its speculation. That's what you do when something hasn't happened yet. The 2008/2009 season has yet to occur, therefore whatever we say will be speculative in nature.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

I'm saying that Osi is young and fast. Tuck is even younger and fast. Mayo and Crable are both young and fast. You asked what getting younger and faster had to do with winning - I just told you.

I could put a cheetah cub out on the field too but can he play great ball at a high level? - It shall be seen whether he can or is he just another Cheetah among others in the woods. - Got what I am saying here?

All rookies have talent or they would not be drafted,about 1/2 of them last longer than just a year or two in the big leagues - You just have to hope we drafted one of those special type guys that is hard to find and is a long term solution when you realize how much talent is out there.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Of course its speculation. That's what you do when something hasn't happened yet. The 2008/2009 season has yet to occur, therefore whatever we say will be speculative in nature.

I think if one is to say The defense should be pretty good is one thing and definately possible here,Dominating and the best or near the top in the league is another thing and a bit on the jumping too far ahead side.

Technically this defense is in transition and being rebuilt per say for this year and the next mainly in the back 7 and even if it does becomes good as a whole unit I don't expect much of that to show until the late fall/early winter months arrive.

Thats it really nothing more to elaborate on this while we are only in late spring - Any future arguments are in reality worthless until play begins - No one here can see ahead unless you are God,Specualting is fun but nothing more than a fantasy right now.

 

[BradyManny]

I could put a cheetah cub out on the field too but can he play great ball at a high level? - It shall be seen whether he can or is he just another Cheetah among others in the woods. - Got what I am saying here?

All rookies have talent or they would not be drafted,about 1/2 of them last longer than just a year or two in the big leagues - You just have to hope we drafted one of those special type guys that is hard to find and is a long term solution when you realize how much talent is out there.

Osi is a two time Pro Bowler, but really, who know of Justin Tuck before this season? He had a total of 1 sack in his first two seasons.

My point is, unproven talent does prove itself sometimes, and its not much of a leap to suggest that amongst the Mayo-Wheatley-Crable group, one of them will contribute to this defense, which oh by the way, is built to be great even WITHOUT them.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Osi is a two time Pro Bowler, but really, who know of Justin Tuck before this season? He had a total of 1 sack in his first two seasons.

My point is, unproven talent does prove itself sometimes, and its not much of a leap to suggest that amongst the Mayo-Wheatley-Crable group, one of them will contribute to this defense, which oh by the way, is built to be great even WITHOUT them.

Like I said in my post earlier in this thread I could not give a crap if the D has any shutouts or is even in the top 20 in defense

As long as the team wins games weekly with scores like 34-31 or 28-24 I am happy with that.

A great offense will always help out an average defense (See the Colts for the past decade) and vice versa on teams with a so so offense with a great defense (See the 2000 Ravens or 2002 Buccaneers) for example

 

[Kontradiction]

I wonder if, with all the speed we just acquired for the defensive side of the ball, we're going to go with more man coverage than zone coverage in the coming years. IMO, zone coverage is a killer and can be exploited over the middle as we saw last season. The only shutdown part of our defense last year was over the top where our corners played a lot of man coverage.

And, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't we go with more of a man coverage unit in 2001-2002? I think I may be wrong, but I'm not sure.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

I wonder if, with all the speed we just acquired for the defensive side of the ball, we're going to go with more man coverage than zone coverage in the coming years. IMO, zone coverage is a killer and can be exploited over the middle as we saw last season. The only shutdown part of our defense last year was over the top where our corners played a lot of man coverage.

And, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't we go with more of a man coverage unit in 2001-2002? I think I may be wrong, but I'm not sure.

The team will use coverage according to the strength of its players and if the rookies and new guys show great speed and agility in closing gaps then Zone may be used more,If they look better on man to man coverage than that will be used.

Once again obviously TC is the key here to what we see in September

 

[NEPatriot]

i'm not going to jump in and declare that pats has the best defense because it's too early to call. I like our new coach but i don't know how our new players are.

I will let you know after seeing the first 6 games. Check back with me later on. OK.?