TE situation - I don't like it.

[PittPatriot]

I've received a couple negative responses in the draft forum for ranking TE high in my early assessment of 2009 team needs. Games like these first three from the TEs are working hard to make me look smaht.

I am not worried about the TE position because Bioli has been stockpiling TE. Oh wait...we already ran through Thomas, Watson, Mills, and others whose names are not worth remembering.
I think we pick up a FA along the way...we did it with Wiggins for Chrissakes!

 

[MoLewisrocks]

We need to use Watson like Clevland uses Windslow JR, or how Shockey was used...

His main asset is to run routes in the open field... as long as you keep him in to block, it lets a LB off the responsibility to cover him and you left with an average NFL TE... When watson stays in to block, there is nothing special about him.

When he is able to run a route ( line him up as a WR sometimes ) he would be great...

Which just underscores that at the end of the day the root of the problem is the OL. They grind up TE's before they have a chance to emerge. Graham was a much better blocker, but he didn't stay here because that's not how he wanted his career to unfold and ultimately end...

Sometimes when you try to upgrade athletically you screw the pooch. Wiggie was a bowling ball and they didn't use him for much beyond blocking until the season was on the line and all of a sudden a football player emerged. It wasn't pretty, just effective. Kinda like Fauria who was a middle of the pack but servicable versatile veteran.

Graham and Watson both struggled with the physical as well as mental demands here out of the gate. Graham eventually emerged as the better overall player, but that transition was not swift or pretty either which is why Watson even landed here. Watson could run over people early on, but he struggled to catch the ball because he struggled to cope with demanding route running discipline and adjustments and blocking assignments. He got so much love for that ultimately meaningless athletic TD saving tackle of Champ Bailey that most failed to notice whose missed block led to Brady throwing that pick on the fly to begin with...

Ultimately they need to address that line. With a better one Brady can hit WR's not named Randy Moss all day long. Absent it even he struggles at time to hit Moss, let alone a receiving TE. The NFL is a copycat league. Bill hinted he knew that and expected we would see an effort across the board to follow the blueprint for stopping Tom Brady's offense. I'm sure like most he believed few teams would be constructed to pull it off. But enough are likely capable of approximating it well enough on any given Sunday versus this OL minus Neal (which is like saying half of the time) not to mention this offense minus Brady to have made it a potentially costly calculated risk.

 

[aluminum seats]

A lot of people are putting things on the QB, it's the easy way out and popular for that reason.

Dave Thomas was getting manhandled by Bryan Thomas in the Jest game, he did better when he was allowed to work on Pace, but he was still disappointing. Sunday I recall Thomas dropping at least one ball, and I'll need to take my time watching that game in order to find a good block from the TE position...but heh, it's all on the QB. Let's grab a beer and b*tch about BB's failure to sign a more proven loser.

Calm down. A lot goes into the mix, obviously, and the OL play, as many haved noted, was fairly wretched. Many ingredients in the blame stew...the QB is one.

 

[BionicPatriot]

I just hope we look toward an all around TE this time. Enough with these athlete TE's, they don't work well for us. I still miss Graham. Although he would be so ineffective at times, his blocking was a life saver. I wouldn't call Thomas a bust yet, the jury is still out on him.

 

[CrazyDave]

This year or last game? Were there problem weeks one and two also?

I noticed Watson missed a block, but did not see that as an indictment of the entire TE situation this year, especially as I'm not sure how much better the TEs were last year if you compare this year to last year.

I don't know, last year we played a lot of 4 wide and stuff.
In years prior to that, it seemed we were a TE oriented offense.
2 TE's, TE's in motion, TE's split wide etc.
Now, I know some of it is the old "scheme" thing, but regardless of scheme, we need SOMETHING from the TE position.
Now granted, I don't go back and review games, and I don't study a lot of stats, but it seems something is missing.
If we're not getting catches downfield, not getting "security blanket" type short receptions, and we're not getting good run blocking/pass protection, than what ARE we getting?
I have'nt reviewed the film, but it seems to me we ain't gettin much.
Feel free to correct me anyone if I'm wrong.

Oh, and thanks for all your responses, I thought this thread was dying on the vine.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Looking at NFL Draft Scout's top 100:

#11Brandon Pettigrew, OK ST, 6'6" 260 - good blocker, athletic, decent receiver
#19 Chase Coffman, MO, 6'6" 247 - decent blocker, good receiver, treated for bone spurs so bears watching this season.
#47 Travis Beckum, WI, 6'3" 237 - effort (he tries) blocker, good receiver
#58 Ryan Purvis, BC, 6'4" 258 - decent blocker, good receiver
#65 Bear Pascoe, Fresno ST, 6'6" 258 - good blocker, decent receiver
#97 Shawn Nelson, So. MS, 6'5" 242 - no breakdown of his skills

I don't know if there's another Grahambo on this list, Pettigrew seems the most likely, but will hopefully be well out of BB's reach when the final season standings are done.

 

[captain stone]

Which just underscores that at the end of the day the root of the problem is the OL. They grind up TE's before they have a chance to emerge. Graham was a much better blocker, but he didn't stay here because that's not how he wanted his career to unfold and ultimately end...

Sometimes when you try to upgrade athletically you screw the pooch. Wiggie was a bowling ball and they didn't use him for much beyond blocking until the season was on the line and all of a sudden a football player emerged. It wasn't pretty, just effective. Kinda like Fauria who was a middle of the pack but servicable versatile veteran.

Graham and Watson both struggled with the physical as well as mental demands here out of the gate. Graham eventually emerged as the better overall player, but that transition was not swift or pretty either which is why Watson even landed here. Watson could run over people early on, but he struggled to catch the ball because he struggled to cope with demanding route running discipline and adjustments and blocking assignments. He got so much love for that ultimately meaningless athletic TD saving tackle of Champ Bailey that most failed to notice whose missed block led to Brady throwing that pick on the fly to begin with...

Ultimately they need to address that line. With a better one Brady can hit WR's not named Randy Moss all day long. Absent it even he struggles at time to hit Moss, let alone a receiving TE. The NFL is a copycat league. Bill hinted he knew that and expected we would see an effort across the board to follow the blueprint for stopping Tom Brady's offense. I'm sure like most he believed few teams would be constructed to pull it off. But enough are likely capable of approximating it well enough on any given Sunday versus this OL minus Neal (which is like saying half of the time) not to mention this offense minus Brady to have made it a potentially costly calculated risk.

This about says it all for me, with a couple of postscripts:

After Grahambo signed w/ the donkeys, I was hoping that the FO would sign ex-bungle Tony Stewart. Though he was drafted the year before him, Stewart is younger than Graham; and while he's not a better run-blocker, he's just as effective in pass-protection. My #1 choice was Reggie Kelly, one of the best blocking TEs in football, but he re-signed w/ Cinci for 3 years/$10M. Much further down my list was old, slow Kyle Brady, who wasn't very good at all with Jax in '06.

Wiggie from Eastie should've been a Patriot through '05, and then should've been re-signed after Dave Thomas was IRed last year. He, Patten, Troy, Antoine Smith & even JR Redmond sure helped an inexperienced, 2nd-year QB that magical, romantic season.

Watson's lack of production at Georgia should have been a warning to the FO on draft day '04. If he were such a gosh-darn physical specimen, then the lousy Bulldog QBs should've been looking for him even more than for the WRs. I wanted LB Karlos Dansby then, and I'd rather have Dansby now.

If we could win with Light, Compton, Woody, Andruzzi, GRR, Brock Williams, Koppen, Hochstein & Ashworth, then why can't we win with Light, Mankins, Koppen, Hochstein, Yates & Kaczur? Has the loss of Stephan Neal irreparably ruptured the OL's structural integrity? And why didn't the FO prepare for this scenario by at least drafting a possible RG of the future in Roy Scheuning in the spot that the useless - so far - Matt Slater was taken?

And it would be nice if a team's LS could also serve as a 2nd FB-3rd/blocking TE. I understand that it would be a lot to ask of him.

 

[tuckeverlasting]

This about says it all for me, with a couple of postscripts:

After Grahambo signed w/ the donkeys, I was hoping that the FO would sign ex-bungle Tony Stewart. Though he was drafted the year before him, Stewart is younger than Graham; and while he's not a better run-blocker, he's just as effective in pass-protection. My #1 choice was Reggie Kelly, one of the best blocking TEs in football, but he re-signed w/ Cinci for 3 years/$10M. Much further down my list was old, slow Kyle Brady, who wasn't very good at all with Jax in '06.

Wiggie from Eastie should've been a Patriot through '05, and then should've been re-signed after Dave Thomas was IRed last year. He, Patten, Troy, Antoine Smith & even JR Redmond sure helped an inexperienced, 2nd-year QB that magical, romantic season.

Watson's lack of production at Georgia should have been a warning to the FO on draft day '04. If he were such a gosh-darn physical specimen, then the lousy Bulldog QBs should've been looking for him even more than for the WRs. I wanted LB Karlos Dansby then, and I'd rather have Dansby now.

If we could win with Light, Compton, Woody, Andruzzi, GRR, Brock Williams, Koppen, Hochstein & Ashworth, then why can't we win with Light, Mankins, Koppen, Hochstein, Yates & Kaczur? Has the loss of Stephan Neal irreparably ruptured the OL's structural integrity? And why didn't the FO prepare for this scenario by at least drafting a possible RG of the future in Roy Scheuning in the spot that the useless - so far - Matt Slater was taken?

And it would be nice if a team's LS could also serve as a 2nd FB-3rd/blocking TE. I understand that it would be a lot to ask of him.

i'm pretty sure brock wasn't doing a lot of blocking or much of anything for that matter.

 

[captain stone]

Oops...that would be Grant Williams, not Brock Williams the CB and waste of a 3rd-round '01 pick, when the FO could've had Anthony Henry instead.

 

[CrazyDave]

After what I saw last night, I'm resurrecting this thread.
Our TE's are doing nothing.

 

[Kontradiction]

I too have not been impressed with the tight end situation since Graham left. IMO, we need to shop Matt Light and Ben Watson this year and see what we can get for them draft pick wise. Watson is a good receiving tight end when healthy and I think there are teams out there that will give up a 3rd-4th for him. Light is aging but this offseason he will be one year removed from a Pro Bowl season so he might generate some interest. I think we're going to need to spend an early pick on a safety (isn't Rodney in the last year of his contract?) and some linemen but we can probably get some later round picks for Watson and Light to secure some defensive players and a blocking tight end. Then again, I never claimed to be a draft whiz.

 

[CrazyDave]

I too have not been impressed with the tight end situation since Graham left. IMO, we need to shop Matt Light and Ben Watson this year and see what we can get for them draft pick wise. Watson is a good receiving tight end when healthy and I think there are teams out there that will give up a 3rd-4th for him. Light is aging but this offseason he will be one year removed from a Pro Bowl season so he might generate some interest. I think we're going to need to spend an early pick on a safety (isn't Rodney in the last year of his contract?) and some linemen but we can probably get some later round picks for Watson and Light to secure some defensive players and a blocking tight end. Then again, I never claimed to be a draft whiz.

Well, ya gotta figure we're going OL in rd 1 or 2.
As for TE, it seems to me we've burned up a lot of draft picks to be in this situation.

 

[NEPatriot]

Kyle brady lost his position with the Patriots after his pathetic blocking in the Superbowl.

he was fired after having 1 bad play. Cassel is not fired after having bad plays.

It's a huge difference.

 

[CrazyDave]

O.K., I'm bringing this thread up AGAIN.
I'll trade Watson and Thomas for a case of jock straps.
And wtf with McDaniels?

 

[CrazyDave]

Some people are saying that Thomas had a fine game besides that penalty.
You should all put the crack pipe down.
Thomas sucks. He has done nothing for this team ever.
And Watson is right behind him.
We would be better off with a 3rd tackle in the game than either of these guys.
Seriously, we have all of these receiving weapons, why are we throwing the ball to these clowns?
Josh? Hello?

 

[JFK]

Yea we do need a better TE. Let's use this year to evaluate Thomas. Watson is good but inconsistent. Play much better with Brady.

 

[bronk37]

how long are we on the hook with watson. also don't shoot me but what would it have looked like if shockey was our tight end, I know hes a lousy blocker but he can run the seem and catch and not drop the ball unlike watson who has to catch everything off his chest. Blocking wise any chance we get graham back for rd 2?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

how long are we on the hook with watson. also don't shoot me but what would it have looked like if shockey was our tight end, I know hes a lousy blocker but he can run the seem and catch and not drop the ball unlike watson who has to catch everything off his chest. Blocking wise any chance we get graham back for rd 2?

Mention Shockey, why shouldn't we shoot at you? Funny how the NYG suddenly got on track once he was injured and Kevin Boss was their #1 TE.