Tavon Wilson signs 4 year deal: $4.2 mil, $1.5 mil signing bonus

[Deus Irae]

Of course, if you have an offense and defense that takes the pressure off your qb, you're more likely to get such statistics. Statistics like this tend to "group".

Good QBs improve their teams. Good teams don't improve their QBs nearly as much in that same manner. What good teams can do is limit the damage a bad/mediocre QB can do (See Ravens, Baltimore).

Obviously, if you have a crappy qb, you're likely to fail for many reasons.

The chief reason being that you have a crappy QB...

If you score a lot of points, it's better than less points, all being equal. Rothlisburger hasn't looked great in past super bowls, but he has advantages and the team is always solid.

Brady hasn't always looked great in past Super Bowls. I'm not seeing where this is at all relevant to the point about making the playoffs.

To me, if you have a system and you acquire players and maintain discipline to promote your system you'll likely be consistently in the hunt.

2000-2001 NEP is a pretty good example of what difference the QB can make.

More and more over the years I've come to the conclusion that being in the big games consistently is the only thing you can do. The ball takes funny bounces and betting too much on any one year leaves you open to injury, chemistry problem or just bad luck and getting back to the top is a lot harder, it's proved over and over despite the tremendous draft advantage perennial losers have.

Again, this really isn't relevant to the discussion and, again, consistent winners tend to have top QBs. That's been the case throughout NFL history. The biggest exception to this, that I can quickly think of, would be the Steelers of the early to mid-90's. That exception is vastly outnumbered by teams that fit the rule, however.

 

[BradyMossWelker]

No one said this, it's another absolute you are making up to argue against.

Another? Wasn't this what we were arguing about?

Whatever, I'm done with this.

 

[RayClay]

Good QBs improve their teams. Good teams don't improve their QBs nearly as much in that same manner. What good teams can do is limit the damage a bad/mediocre QB can do (See Ravens, Baltimore).



The chief reason being that you have a crappy QB...



Brady hasn't always looked great in past Super Bowls. I'm not seeing where this is at all relevant to the point about making the playoffs.




2000-2001 NEP is a pretty good example of what difference the QB can make.




Again, this really isn't relevant to the discussion and, again, consistent winners tend to have top QBs. That's been the case throughout NFL history. The biggest exception to this, that I can quickly think of, would be the Steelers of the early to mid-90's. That exception is vastly outnumbered by teams that fit the rule, however.

I just started to eat some Chinese food while I was in mid post, I wouldn't worry about the profundity of what i wrote. QB i the most important position, I'm not going to argue, I'm going to eat.

 

[Deus Irae]

I just started to eat some Chinese food while I was in mid post, I wouldn't worry about the profundity of what i wrote. QB i the most important position, I'm not going to argue, I'm going to eat.

Enjoy the Chinese...

 

[Ring 6]

He was pretty happy about that game actually. He said he finally proved the doubters wrong. Nough said because it was in the championship game.

So since he was happy to get close to winning, that is now a career day, and condemnation of the defense that beat him?
Your goalposts are on roller skates.

 

[BradyMossWelker]

So since he was happy to get close to winning, that is now a career day, and condemnation of the defense that beat him?
Your goalposts are on roller skates.

No you were the one who said that it wasn't a career day because he wasn't happy. You brought it up first. Then I replied that he actually was happy.

 

[Ring 6]

We should have been "rebuilding" the defense before it was necessary. That way we wouldn't have to go "order 11 defensive players". The 2008 defense was totally different than the 2009 one. Thats where I think BB missed. And even after that period he hasn't drafted enough impact players to fix that problem.

So now in addition to needing to field an excellent team on both sides of the ball every single season with no down years, hit on a substantially higher amount of draft picks than everyone else, you now expect BB to have a SB caliber replacement on the bench behind every player who may get injured, or age?

I'd like everything to be perfect and have unicorns peeing rainbows doing laps around the field, too, but I am in touch with reality.

 

[BradyMossWelker]

So now in addition to needing to field an excellent team on both sides of the ball every single season with no down years, hit on a substantially higher amount of draft picks than everyone else, you now expect BB to have a SB caliber replacement on the bench behind every player who may get injured, or age?

I'd like everything to be perfect and have unicorns peeing rainbows doing laps around the field, too, but I am in touch with reality.

Now you're taking what I said and taking it out of context. If you're fed up of the discussion like I am just shut up, don't make things up.

 

[Ring 6]

No you were the one who said that it wasn't a career day because he wasn't happy. You brought it up first. Then I replied that he actually was happy.

I didnt say anything about him being happy, I described his day and asked if you seriously think that qualifies as the best day/performance of his career.
Again, the goalposts move better than Cam Newton.
We started with you saying the defense sucked.
You moved to how could the defense not suck if EVERY QB had a career day.
I asked for one.
You gave Flacco, and have now turned it into he was happy.
Therefore you have moved the goalposts to our defense sucked because Joe Flacco was happy he came close to being them.

 

[BradyMossWelker]

I didnt say anything about him being happy, I described his day and asked if you seriously think that qualifies as the best day/performance of his career.
Again, the goalposts move better than Cam Newton.
We started with you saying the defense sucked.
You moved to how could the defense not suck if EVERY QB had a career day.
I asked for one.
You gave Flacco, and have now turned it into he was happy.
Therefore you have moved the goalposts to our defense sucked because Joe Flacco was happy he came close to being them.

No. You said QBs only had career games when it didn't matter. I said Flacco, championship game. You said he wasn't happy, therefore it wasn't a career game. I said he was happy.

 

[Ring 6]

Now you're taking what I said and taking it out of context. If you're fed up of the discussion like I am just shut up, don't make things up.

That is what your comments add up to.
You call a defense that was 6th in points allowed and 2nd in takeaways over a 3 year period that included 37 regular season wins, 3 division titles and a trip to the SB terrible, and argued that it was because BB failed.
You named a few draft picks that didn't work, out of a group that has worked out at least as often as the average.
Then you say that BB failed because he didn't replace players before they were gone.
Its easy to find a bunch of things to whine about and act as if perfection is a reasonable expectation. That is what you are doing. You are taking good results and picking out flaws in a process that rife with flaws every step of the way, and calling them egregious.

You are doing the equivalent of looking at the .350 hitter calling him bad because he makes an out 65% of the time.

 

[Ring 6]

No. You said QBs only had career games when it didn't matter. I said Flacco, championship game. You said he wasn't happy, therefore it wasn't a career game. I said he was happy.

Are you reading this discussion?
I asked you for examples of guys who had a career games against us MEANINGFULLY. I assumed you would understand meaningfully included winning.
You came back with Flacco, who didn't have a career game, and lost.
I never said anything about happy, I asked if you felt he considered that day to be the best game of his life, ie CAREER DAY.

 

[BradyMossWelker]

That is what your comments add up to.
You call a defense that was 6th in points allowed and 2nd in takeaways over a 3 year period that included 37 regular season wins, 3 division titles and a trip to the SB terrible, and argued that it was because BB failed.
You named a few draft picks that didn't work, out of a group that has worked out at least as often as the average.
Then you say that BB failed because he didn't replace players before they were gone.
Its easy to find a bunch of things to whine about and act as if perfection is a reasonable expectation. That is what you are doing. You are taking good results and picking out flaws in a process that rife with flaws every step of the way, and calling them egregious.

You are doing the equivalent of looking at the .350 hitter calling him bad because he makes an out 65% of the time.

No, I'm looking at a .350 hitter with 150 strikeouts, saying he should improve in that area.

 

[BradyMossWelker]

Are you reading this discussion?
I asked you for examples of guys who had a career games against us MEANINGFULLY. I assumed you would understand meaningfully included winning.
You came back with Flacco, who didn't have a career game, and lost.
I never said anything about happy, I asked if you felt he considered that day to be the best game of his life, ie CAREER DAY.

Again, just because Brady and the offense won the game doesn't mean the other QB didn't have one of the best games of his career, which many QB's have had against the Patriots.

 

[Ring 6]

No you were the one who said that it wasn't a career day because he wasn't happy. You brought it up first. Then I replied that he actually was happy.

What in my response, reposted below indicates that his happiness has anything to do with what I am saying?

Do you really think that Joe Flacco would consider losing that game his best game of his career? Really?
Are you serioulsy going to tell me that scoring 20 points when your defense forces 3 turnovers is a great day?
That 61% completion when 30 of your 36 passes are considered 'short' and throwing an Int is a career day?
Baltimore Ravens at New England Patriots - January 22nd, 2012 - Pro-Football-Reference.com

"Nuff said? Sure because you have nothing else to add that could support that opinion.

I am very glad to hear that the best reason you have for trashing our defense is those awfiul stats we allow while winning.

Are you saying Flacco had his career day in that game, for real?

 

[Ring 6]

Again, just because Brady and the offense won the game doesn't mean the other QB didn't have one of the best games of his career, which many QB's have had against the Patriots.

You aren't answering the question.
Do you think that game, scoring 20 points while getting 3 takeaways from his defense, and completing 61% of his passes while throwing a pick, is the best day of his career?
You need to stop saying MANY when I asked for examples and you came up with one that is incorrect.

 

[Ring 6]

No, I'm looking at a .350 hitter with 150 strikeouts, saying he should improve in that area.

Yet calling a .250 hitter with 100 strikeouts a better hitter.
Actually a .250 hitter with 150 strikeouts but you are pretending the .350 hitter must have struck out more because 150 must be a lot.

 

[BradyMossWelker]

You aren't answering the question.
Do you think that game, scoring 20 points while getting 3 takeaways from his defense, and completing 61% of his passes while throwing a pick, is the best day of his career?
You need to stop saying MANY when I asked for examples and you came up with one that is incorrect.

He said it was the game that he finally proved the doubters wrong. Sounds like a career game to me. Fitzpatrick has had good games, Sanchez has had good games, Matt Moore, Chad Henne, Colt McCoy... But it really doesn't matter.

What we take out of this discussion is, I think our defense is mediocre, I think BB should have prepared better the 2008 to 2009 defensive transition, and hasn't done a good job reloading (until 2012). Which results in the bad defense we've had until last year. I base my opinion on actual played games

You think our defense is average to above average, and Bill has done all he could. You base your opinion on defensive stats.

I still think I'm right, and nothing you say is going to change that. And nothing I say will change your opinion. So why keep arguing?

 

[BradyMossWelker]

Yet calling a .250 hitter with 100 strikeouts a better hitter.
Actually a .250 hitter with 150 strikeouts but you are pretending the .350 hitter must have struck out more because 150 must be a lot.

Just because I said the Ravens are doing a better job rebuilding the defense then we are, in no way do I think they're better than us, cause they're not.

 

[Ring 6]

Just because I said the Ravens are doing a better job rebuilding the defense then we are, in no way do I think they're better than us, cause they're not.

That curious comment wasn't what I was referring to, but please expound on how they are doing a better job rebuilding the defense since 2008 with the 5 1-3 round picks they made from 09-11, only 2 which look like much help at all.

What moves did the Ravens make that show a better job rebuidling the defense that what the Patriots did?
I'm not talking about you saying they had a better defense last year, because you are talking about them doing a better job replacing their aging players. I can't see where you are getting that from.