Sunday Nighter - Colts/Chargers

[Rob0729]

The most apt comparison between these two guys would be Marino and Montana. You mentioned when their skills started to decline in your last post.

How about Favre and Elway? Why Marino and Montana? Just because Brady and Manning are compared to them? Montana's back gave out on him and Marino lost the fire on his long ball. You can't guarantee that Brady will even have a back injury to give out on him. I don't think Manning has the long ball that Marino had to be the reason why he declines when he does.

Every QB is different. That is my point. There is no apt comparison because Brady and Manning will not have the same situations that caused the decline of other elite QBs. Their decline will be their own unique situation. My point is that since some elite QBs decline in the late 30s and other in their early 30s, there is no way to compare Brady and Manning.

 

[Joker]

Brayette Farver!!! set the precedent...Brady and Manning will play as long as they want to in this league now...or at least until they're too crippled to walk

 

[pwes]

I find it amazing how Colts fans put the blame on everyone but Manning for his picks. Unbelieveable.

 

[Kontradiction]

How about Favre and Elway? Why Marino and Montana? Just because Brady and Manning are compared to them? Montana's back gave out on him and Marino lost the fire on his long ball. You can't guarantee that Brady will even have a back injury to give out on him. I don't think Manning has the long ball that Marino had to be the reason why he declines when he does.

Every QB is different. That is my point. There is no apt comparison because Brady and Manning will not have the same situations that caused the decline of other elite QBs. Their decline will be their own unique situation. My point is that since some elite QBs decline in the late 30s and other in their early 30s, there is no way to compare Brady and Manning.

Yes, every quarterback is different. However, both guys are fast approaching their mid-30's. Again, guys like Favre are the exception rather than the rule. Age and time should tell you that, when Manning begins his decline (regardless or whether or not that is going to happen this year), that Brady won't be that far behind. For example, say that Manning's decline begins two years from now at 36 with Brady being at 35. What are the chances that Brady, with his body taking the amount of punishment that it has throughout his career, is going to be playing at an elite level still three years later at age 38? The chances are slim. It could happen but the raw data doesn't support it. More players decline in their late 30's than those that continue to play their best football.

 

[#12G.O.A.T]

Yes, every quarterback is different. However, both guys are fast approaching their mid-30's. Again, guys like Favre are the exception rather than the rule. Age and time should tell you that, when Manning begins his decline (regardless or whether or not that is going to happen this year), that Brady won't be that far behind. For example, say that Manning's decline begins two years from now at 36 with Brady being at 35. What are the chances that Brady, with his body taking the amount of punishment that it has throughout his career, is going to be playing at an elite level still three years later at age 38? The chances are slim. It could happen but the raw data doesn't support it. More players decline in their late 30's than those that continue to play their best football.

Kurt Warner played at an elite level till he was 38

 

[Rob0729]

1. You do realize that two-three years in between decline is really not that long of a period, yes? That was what my original point was.

2. Guys like Favre are, by far and away, the exception and not the rule.

3. I don't think either QB is declining at this point. Especially not Brady, who is playing some of the best football in his career right now.

1.) Two to three years is probably the minimum barring injuriesor just an unique situation. It easily could be 5-6 years.

2.) QBs being elite in their late 30s is not the exception. Elway, Gannon, Favre, Warner, Staubauch, Steve Young, Warren Moon, etc. all played at an elite level. Playing until 40 at an elite level is.

3.) I don't know if Manning is declining or not. He has played rather mediocre in the last month and I know that has a lot to do with injuries, but he has done a lot with nothing in the past (at least for short periods of time). I agree with Brady playing some of his best football, but Manning is playing some of his worst. I do respect Jaws' film study more than most even if I hate his ball washing on MNF.

 

[TriplecHamp]

I find it amazing how Colts fans put the blame on everyone but Manning for his picks. Unbelieveable.

its actually pretty funny, he's pretty much all they have left.

 

[jbb9s]

The Chargers don't scare me at all. We're not going to make the mistakes and shoot ourselves in the foot the way the Colts and Manning did tonight.

i'm glad you're confident that the Pats won't make mistakes; however, its the fact that the Chargers won't make the same mistakes they did earlier in the season again. Like lets say a rookie putting the ball on the ground after not being down by contact or a young RB not chasing down a lateral, etc.

 

[Rob0729]

Yes, every quarterback is different. However, both guys are fast approaching their mid-30's. Again, guys like Favre are the exception rather than the rule. Age and time should tell you that, when Manning begins his decline (regardless or whether or not that is going to happen this year), that Brady won't be that far behind. For example, say that Manning's decline begins two years from now at 36 with Brady being at 35. What are the chances that Brady, with his body taking the amount of punishment that it has throughout his career, is going to be playing at an elite level still three years later at age 38? The chances are slim. It could happen but the raw data doesn't support it. More players decline in their late 30's than those that continue to play their best football.

John Elway says hi. He took more beatings than most QBs and played at an elite level at 38. Again, the data doesn't support your argument since there are plenty of QBs who have taken a lot of poundings through their career and still played at an elite level at 37 or 38. I listed some of them.

Brady didn't start until he was 24 (many elite QBs including Manning become starters at age 21 or 22) and he also missed the entire 2008 season. So when he is 38, he will have four less years of punishment than Manning will have when he turns 38. That is significant.

 

[Joker]

John Elway says hi. He took more beatings than most QBs and played at an elite level at 38. Again, the data doesn't support your argument since there are plenty of QBs who have taken a lot of poundings through their career and still played at an elite level at 37 or 38. I listed some of them.

Brady didn't start until he was 24 (many elite QBs including Manning become starters at age 21 or 22) and he also missed the entire 2008 season. So when he is 38, he will have four less years of punishment than Manning will have when he turns 38. That is significant.

I wouldn't say elite level...I'd say "smart veteran"...since he essentially handed off to Terrell Davis in those Supe wins.When Elways was elite he LOST Super Bowls

 

[Deus Irae]

Great game. Manning put on a nice show for the Patriots fans.

 

[Joker]

so many faces to choose from...I want them all!!!!!

 

[SVN]

i wonder what jim caldwell does for the team. he should be able to coach up the colts problems ..right ?

 

[Kontradiction]

1.) Two to three years is probably the minimum barring injuriesor just an unique situation. It easily could be 5-6 years.

So you're going to be willing to bet that Brady will be playing at an elite level until he's 41 or 42? Do you understand how extremely rare that is?

2.) QBs being elite in their late 30s is not the exception. Elway, Gannon, Favre, Warner, Staubauch, Steve Young, Warren Moon, etc. all played at an elite level. Playing until 40 at an elite level is.

Sure it is. For every quarterback that you can name that played at an elite or even pro level late into his 30's, you can also name guys that fell off well before that. Examples: Dan Marino (last great season at 33-34), Troy Aikman, Jim Kelly, Drew Bledsoe, Dan Fouts, Joe Theismann, Boomer Esiason, Phil Simms, and Bernie Kosar are all guys going back two decades who were great in their times whose skills eroded before their late 30's. If I went back even further, I could find more examples. Again, quarterbacks playing at an elite level late into their 30's are the exception. Guys like Favre are, by far, the exception.

3.) I don't know if Manning is declining or not. He has played rather mediocre in the last month and I know that has a lot to do with injuries, but he has done a lot with nothing in the past (at least for short periods of time). I agree with Brady playing some of his best football, but Manning is playing some of his worst. I do respect Jaws' film study more than most even if I hate his ball washing on MNF.

His decline has everthing to do with who he is throwing to. His passes to Wayne are dead on. Tonight, you saw what happened with Garcon if a quarterback's timing with his receiver is off in a timing offense. Combine that with the O-Line, and you get the result that you currently see in Indy.

John Elway says hi. He took more beatings than most QBs and played at an elite level at 38. Again, the data doesn't support your argument since there are plenty of QBs who have taken a lot of poundings through their career and still played at an elite level at 37 or 38. I listed some of them.

Brady didn't start until he was 24 (many elite QBs including Manning become starters at age 21 or 22) and he also missed the entire 2008 season. So when he is 38, he will have four less years of punishment than Manning will have when he turns 38. That is significant.

You forget that Brady missed the 2008 season with a devastating knee injury that effectively took him an entire year to come back from. Manning has no such injury in his career.

 

[Joker]

How braindead, rock,stump stupid are the Green Rat nitwits in NY???Just look at this picture and tell me THAT isn't a blatant tackle hold on the Bengal player....and these Post nitwits put it out there as an exciting Jet moment...I think they either KNOW the Omissioner has it all under control or they are just plain morons....

 

[SoonerPatriot]

If Manning becomes a scrub tomorrow, it doesn't mean Brady is anywhere close to declining. There is no exact science of when a player's skills erode. Some players, even superstars, burn out a lot quicker than other players.

Favre had the best year of his career at age 40. Rich Gannon won the MVP at 38. Elway won a Super Bowl at 38. Joe Montan's last elite year was at 34. Marino started to decline around 33. Both Brady and Manning could be elite till that age or one could be elite at 40 and the other could be mediocre in a year or two or both could burn out.

This is spot on. People age differently.

It's why someone like Nolan Ryan could throw no hitters in his 40s and others are finished by their early 30s.

It's a combination of a lot of things, including genetics.

Manning is seeing an erosion of the talent around him, if anything.

 

[SoonerPatriot]

So you're going to be willing to bet that Brady will be playing at an elite level until he's 41 or 42? Do you understand how extremely rare that is?



Sure it is. For every quarterback that you can name that played at an elite or even pro level late into his 30's, you can also name guys that fell off well before that. Examples: Dan Marino (last great season at 33-34), Troy Aikman, Jim Kelly, Drew Bledsoe, Dan Fouts, Joe Theismann, Boomer Esiason, Phil Simms, and Bernie Kosar are all guys going back two decades who were great in their times whose skills eroded before their late 30's. If I went back even further, I could find more examples. Again, quarterbacks playing at an elite level late into their 30's are the exception. Guys like Favre are, by far, the exception.



His decline has everthing to do with who he is throwing to. His passes to Wayne are dead on. Tonight, you saw what happened with Garcon if a quarterback's timing with his receiver is off in a timing offense. Combine that with the O-Line, and you get the result that you currently see in Indy.



You forget that Brady missed the 2008 season with a devastating knee injury that effectively took him an entire year to come back from. Manning has no such injury in his career.

Knee injuries aren't the only injuries that matter. Cumuliative hits are just as important. See:Troy Aikman, Drew Bledsoe and Steve Young.

 

[lightningbolt]

I think we all know how that would start:
"Phil's a great player..." :lol2:

I would lose some respect for Tom Brady if he outright admitted that Rivers is better than him, whether he thought it or not. A QB of his caliber has to believe that he's the best QB on the planet every season or else he will lose some of his competitive fire.

That said, Rivers is statistically the best QB in the league going on about 3 seasons now and he's arguably doing more with less than either Manning or Brady on offense, especially this season when most of his top receivers have been out and Gates has been out for lots of games as well and yet he's still shredding defenses to lead the league in QB stats.

When Manning and Brady become old, pathetic shells of their former selves Rivers will be unanimously viewed as the best QB in the league, as he's only 28 currently so he's got many more years to establish himself in the league whereas Brady and Manning have reached the midpoint of their careers and their skills will probably gradually decline from this point.

Here's how I currently rank the top 5 QBs in the NFL in terms of skill:

1) Rivers
2) Brady
3) Manning
4) Brees
5) Rodgers

In terms of legacy:

1) Brady
2) Manning
3) Favre
4) Brees
5) Roethlisberger


Rivers is currently better in terms of his level of play than any other QB currently in the NFL, but if he were to get hurt and never play another NFL game he'd rank very low in terms of his career legacy. He needs to win at least one super bowl to be considered an all time great and multiple super bowls to compete with Brady's legacy or another QB great like Montana.

 

[Nikolai]

its actually pretty funny, he's pretty much all they have left.

Almost reminds me of the early to mid 90s Dolphins and Marino.

 

[Pessimistic Pete]

Does anyone realize Kyle Orton has more passing yards than Phillip Rivers yet Rivers is the only one being talked about in terms of beating Marino's record?