Sunday Nighter - Colts/Chargers

[Froob]

Itd be too funny if the chargers still don't make the playoffs. I think Chiefs can afford to lose to the chargers 2nd time around and still win it if they win the rest of their games.

 

[#12G.O.A.T]

If that truly is the case (I don't think so), then we as Pats fans might not want to have a good laugh about it, because Brady isn't that far behind.

I would strongly disagree with that, Manning started his career 3 years before Brady, plus Brady had the year with the injury off, so really Manning is 4 years ahead of Brady.

 

[condon84]

Credit the Chargers tonight for staying aggressive defensively even when they accumulated a large lead.

 

[Rob0729]

If that truly is the case (I don't think so), then we as Pats fans might not want to have a good laugh about it, because Brady isn't that far behind.

If Manning becomes a scrub tomorrow, it doesn't mean Brady is anywhere close to declining. There is no exact science of when a player's skills erode. Some players, even superstars, burn out a lot quicker than other players.

Favre had the best year of his career at age 40. Rich Gannon won the MVP at 38. Elway won a Super Bowl at 38. Joe Montan's last elite year was at 34. Marino started to decline around 33. Both Brady and Manning could be elite till that age or one could be elite at 40 and the other could be mediocre in a year or two or both could burn out.

 

[BigMike]

Marinos decline was aided by his nightime lifestlye choices as opposed to a healthier living i suspect Brady and Manning subscribe to. Its no wonder Marinos nose is still intact after all that snorting.

 

[Kontradiction]

I would strongly disagree with that, Manning started his career 3 years before Brady, plus Brady had the year with the injury off, so really Manning is 4 years ahead of Brady.

Manning has also never had a major injury in his career. Furthermore, declining skills have more to do with age than anything. Manning is only a year older than Brady. So, if his skills are declining, it surely isn't long before we see the same thing from Brady.

 

[Rob0729]

I would strongly disagree with that, Manning started his career 3 years before Brady, plus Brady had the year with the injury off, so really Manning is 4 years ahead of Brady.

A good argument that I totally forgot. Also, Brady's season ending injury could be an benefit to his longevity too. He did lose a year of the poounding and wear and tear of the NFL in 2008 rehabbing his injury. They used to say about RBs that they only have so many hits in their career. I thin QBs only can throw so many balls before their arm starts to go. Granted it is different for every QB.

 

[karguy85]

Trent Dilfer: "It have no hesitation saying Philip Rivers is the best QB in the league. It wouldn't surprise me if you called up Tom Brady and asked him and he agreed with me."

What a doofus

 

[pwes]

Trent Dilfer: "It have no hesitation saying Philip Rivers is the best QB in the league. It wouldn't surprise me if you called up Tom Brady and asked him and he agreed with me."

What a doofus

He's not that far off.

Going to the Colts board to wallow in their misery. Should be fun times

 

[Sciz]

Trent Dilfer: "It have no hesitation saying Philip Rivers is the best QB in the league. It wouldn't surprise me if you called up Tom Brady and asked him and he agreed with me."

What a doofus

I think we all know how that would start:
"Phil's a great player..." :lol2:

 

[TB=TD]

Trent Dilfer: "It have no hesitation saying Philip Rivers is the best QB in the league. It wouldn't surprise me if you called up Tom Brady and asked him and he agreed with me."

What a doofus

Rivers did far less to beat Manning than Brady.

 

[Kontradiction]

If Manning becomes a scrub tomorrow, it doesn't mean Brady is anywhere close to declining. There is no exact science of when a player's skills erode. Some players, even superstars, burn out a lot quicker than other players.

Favre had the best year of his career at age 40. Rich Gannon won the MVP at 38. Elway won a Super Bowl at 38. Joe Montan's last elite year was at 34. Marino started to decline around 33. Both Brady and Manning could be elite till that age or one could be elite at 40 and the other could be mediocre in a year or two or both could burn out.

Of course some players burn out at different points than others. But both Manning and Brady are on the other side of 30. It stands to reason that if Manning's skills are declining, Brady's aren't going to be all that far behind. Whether it occurs next year or two years afterward, it won't happen all that long after Manning loses his skills.

Personally, I don't think Manning's skills are declining at all. I think that the Colts made a major personnel error along the offensive line which has resulted in some weak protection for Manning. Furthermore, that offense is a timing offense. The injuries in the receiving corps have meant that Manning has had to play with back-ups for the most part. It stands to reason that his timing will not be as good with them as it is with guys like Collie and Clark. You can see it on the field as well.

 

[Rob0729]

Manning has also never had a major injury in his career. Furthermore, declining skills have more to do with age than anything. Manning is only a year older than Brady. So, if his skills are declining, it surely isn't long before we see the same thing from Brady.

As I said in my last post, Brady's injury could extend his career. Look at pitchers in baseball. A sizable percentage of them get rotator cuff injuries and other injuries caused by repetitive motions that come with throwing a baseball late in their careers because of all the innings they pitched. That can also affect QBs. Brady has four less years of wear on his arm than Manning.

Look at guys like Kurt Warner and Rich Gannon who didn't play much early in their careers and played at an elite level late in their 30s because they didn't have the wear and tear on their bodies.

Again though, I don't buy that just because Manning may be declining (say hypothetically), that Brady automatically is right behind him. There are plenty of QBs who played elite games in their late 30s while others burn out.

 

[karguy85]

He's not that far off.

Going to the Colts board to wallow in their misery. Should be fun times

Rivers is a great QB having a great year. I won't deny that. But to be so steadfast that Rivers is the best QB in the league right now with all that Brady has accomplished and with the fact that Brady is statistically having just as a good a year (potentially better) is overboard in my opinion.

And then on top of that to suggest that Brady would agree that Rivers is better than him right now is rediculous. Sure Brady would say Rivers is great, but he is way to competitive to concede that Rivers is better than him...

 

[Kontradiction]

As I said in my last post, Brady's injury could extend his career. Look at pitchers in baseball. A sizable percentage of them get rotator cuff injuries and other injuries caused by repetitive motions that come with throwing a baseball late in their careers because of all the innings they pitched. That can also affect QBs. Brady has four less years of wear on his arm than Manning.

Look at guys like Kurt Warner and Rich Gannon who didn't play much early in their careers and played at an elite level late in their 30s because they didn't have the wear and tear on their bodies.

Again though, I don't buy that just because Manning may be declining (say hypothetically), that Brady automatically is right behind him. There are plenty of QBs who played elite games in their late 30s while others burn out.

The most apt comparison between these two guys would be Marino and Montana. You mentioned when their skills started to decline in your last post.

 

[Joker]

yeah...Elway declined right into 2 Super Bowl wins when he was 37 and 38...go ahead, pull the patented Patsfans dot com glass half empty litany of denials now....

 

[Rob0729]

Of course some players burn out at different points than others. But both Manning and Brady are on the other side of 30. It stands to reason that if Manning's skills are declining, Brady's aren't going to be all that far behind. Whether it occurs next year or two years afterward, it won't happen all that long after Manning loses his skills.

Personally, I don't think Manning's skills are declining at all. I think that the Colts made a major personnel error along the offensive line which has resulted in some weak protection for Manning. Furthermore, that offense is a timing offense. The injuries in the receiving corps have meant that Manning has had to play with back-ups for the most part. It stands to reason that his timing will not be as good with them as it is with guys like Collie and Clark. You can see it on the field as well.

There is no coorlation between Manning and Brady. QBs do not have expiration dates and decline at the same level and same age.

If Manning is declining, he is doing it prematurely. He should still have at least 2-3 years before his skills decline. So if Jaws is right, Manning is declining faster than he should and Brady should still have 3-4 years before his skills should start to decline.

I'm sorry, but Brady could be an elite QB at 38 and Manning could be out of the league at 35 because his skills had declined to a point he would have to fight for a starting position. Or visa versa. No two QBs decline in skills the same way or the same time.

 

[Kontradiction]

yeah...Elway declined right into 2 Super Bowl wins when he was 37 and 38...go ahead, pull the patented Patsfans dot com glass half empty litany of denials now....

Are you talking to me?

 

[Nikolai]

The declining skills argument does little to address the approach that TFB brings to the game in the form of smart decision-making, in contrast to Manning's baffling ability to make terrible throws in key spots. Brady isn't a gunslinger that depends on a cannon-like arm. I think, barring injury, he'll be around for a while.

 

[Kontradiction]

There is no coorlation between Manning and Brady. QBs do not have expiration dates and decline at the same level and same age.

If Manning is declining, he is doing it prematurely. He should still have at least 2-3 years before his skills decline. So if Jaws is right, Manning is declining faster than he should and Brady should still have 3-4 years before his skills should start to decline.

I'm sorry, but Brady could be an elite QB at 38 and Manning could be out of the league at 35 because his skills had declined to a point he would have to fight for a starting position. Or visa versa. No two QBs decline in skills the same way or the same time.

1. You do realize that two-three years in between decline is really not that long of a period, yes? That was what my original point was.

2. Guys like Favre are, by far and away, the exception and not the rule.

3. I don't think either QB is declining at this point. Especially not Brady, who is playing some of the best football in his career right now.