Stephen Jackson vs Maroney

[NEPatriot]

Dont get me started on Jackson! While I was very happy with the draft that year, I think Jackson would be the perfect back for us. He's big, strong, runs with power and has speed. While I like Maroney, I think we'll have a much better idea what we have next year. The lilne should be more settled, he'll have a year under his belt, and I think we'll be more committed to a ballanced attack.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I would lay some of Maroney's 2nd half season problems on Josh McD. I noticed that the majority of the time M enters the game, he's immediately given the ball on a running play. Good Ds noticed this, keyed on it, run blitzed and often caught him for a 2-3 yard loss. Not to sound like the other old geezer here, but more creative use of playfaking might have improved this obvious call situation.

And no, I do not think JMcD should be replaced, just criticized for his poorer strategies, just like Weis whom I really liked but pissed me off beyond belief on occasion.

I'm interested to see how Maroney performs next season.

 

[Patstopia]

Unless we draft another big lineman I would expect the same next year as this year. If you cannot run block the last 2 years, why would it change now? A deep threat WR may pull the defense off the line a bit, and that would help also.

The reasom Addai was good this year was because of Manning. Teams would rather give up 5 yards then 7 points. Manning is always a threat! What do you think would happen if Brady had those two WR's? Maroney would still be running!

 

[NEPatriot]

Unless we draft another big lineman I would expect the same next year as this year. If you cannot run block the last 2 years, why would it change now? A deep threat WR may pull the defense off the line a bit, and that would help also.

The reasom Addai was good this year was because of Manning. Teams would rather give up 5 yards then 7 points. Manning is always a threat! What do you think would happen if Brady had those two WR's? Maroney would still be running!

We ran the ball early on in the year. I think our line will be just fine. If we draft a lineman earlier than the 4th round, I'll be surprised.

 

[Patstopia]

We ran the ball early on in the year. I think our line will be just fine. If we draft a lineman earlier than the 4th round, I'll be surprised.

I dont think 8 out 16 games is "just fine" but a 4th rounder or later will get a good guard. That would be fine.

 

[unoriginal]

I dont think 8 out 16 games is "just fine" but a 4th rounder or later will get a good guard. That would be fine.

The interior of the line is deep. Really, the entire line is above-average and deep, but especially the guards. Mankins, Neal, Hochstein and Yates is nothing to sneeze at. Lower-round picks would be a redundant waste, just like Stevenson, and we have greater needs than OL for the first day selections.

Who says we couldn't run block the last two years? Heath Evans put up 82 yards on MIAMI for god's sakes. When Faulk's in the game he manages to do just fine, even against 8 man fronts. What we didn't have this year was a load-bearing running back and receiving corps; if Gaffney and Maroney improve for next year like they should, the offense should click next year, even with almost the exact same personnel.

 

[Ice Cold Bruschi]

if nothing else he's really demonstrated that he fits in with the team really well, a patriots player all the way.

 

[Fanfrom1960]

Addai also had no-one on defense playing the run (OK, an exaggeration) because of that "decent" passing game they have. Addai looked good but with Harrison and Wayne at WR the comparison is not fair.

I don't believe this "you have to have a great QB and WRs to be a good running back" stuff. Who did Gale Sayers play with? OJ Simpson? Barry Sanders? Nobody to all of them. OK, I'll back off with the hall of famers. How about Frank Gore? Alex Smith was abolutely horrible last year as a rookie, came along this year kind of OK. But, the 49ers have probably the worst receivers in football, both years. Yet, Frank Gore started in the pro bowl. He has pretty good physical skills, but more importantly, he has phenomenal desire. For those that speak of Maroney's injury, even he was joking about it after missing a couple of games, implying that maybe there wasn't one. What was that all about? The jury is still out with Maroney. Way out.

 

[JackBauer]

I don't believe this "you have to have a great QB and WRs to be a good running back" stuff. Who did Gale Sayers play with? OJ Simpson? Barry Sanders? Nobody to all of them. OK, I'll back off with the hall of famers. How about Frank Gore? Alex Smith was abolutely horrible last year as a rookie, came along this year kind of OK. But, the 49ers have probably the worst receivers in football, both years. Yet, Frank Gore started in the pro bowl. He has pretty good physical skills, but more importantly, he has phenomenal desire. For those that speak of Maroney's injury, even he was joking about it after missing a couple of games, implying that maybe there wasn't one. What was that all about? The jury is still out with Maroney. Way out.

Yeah, except for the small fact that 2006 wasn't Gore's rookie season. Otherwise this comparison would be completely apt.

 

[zippo59]

Everybody is giving Maroney a pass for some reason. Joseph Addai was also a rookie and a lot of people thought he should have been MVP or co-MVP for the SB. Yesterday I was trying to think of a RB in the playoffs that didn't look better than Maroney, or at least Maroney in the second half of the year. I couldn't think of anybody. He jukes and jives and doesn't hit the hole unless it's five yards wide. As for being a rookie, again, even running in college is not a whole lot different, and he did play 3 years at Minnesota. OK, he did average 4.3 YPC this year, but he just didn't look good down the stretch. Running with the football is so instinctive and reactive that I'm not sure how you work with him on this either.

As others have said the comparison to Addai is just not far because most teams played the majority of their snaps on defense in nickel which is a running back's dreams.

Hesitancy and dancing when hitting the whole is not at all uncommon for a rokkie running back, especially one that is injured.

Another thing to consider is Dillon is a better player than Dominic Rhodes so naturally he would take more carries away from Maroney than Rhodes would from Addai.

 

[zippo59]

I don't believe this "you have to have a great QB and WRs to be a good running back" stuff. Who did Gale Sayers play with? OJ Simpson? Barry Sanders? Nobody to all of them. OK, I'll back off with the hall of famers. How about Frank Gore? Alex Smith was abolutely horrible last year as a rookie, came along this year kind of OK. But, the 49ers have probably the worst receivers in football, both years. Yet, Frank Gore started in the pro bowl. He has pretty good physical skills, but more importantly, he has phenomenal desire. For those that speak of Maroney's injury, even he was joking about it after missing a couple of games, implying that maybe there wasn't one. What was that all about? The jury is still out with Maroney. Way out.

All the Hall of Famers were put on offenses where they were THE GUY. They were made the focal point and everything was designed to revolve around them. Maroney simply was not put in that position.

And by the way the 49ers had a pretty decent offense this year. Between Alex Smith, Frank Gore, Antonio Bryant, and Vernon Davis they played pretty well.

But I still find it curious that you're getting on Maroney for not being as good as some of the greatest running backs to ever play the game in his rookie year, in a year that can only be termed as a "transition" year for the entire offense.
??????????????

 

[BelichickFan]

I don't believe this "you have to have a great QB and WRs to be a good running back" stuff. Who did Gale Sayers play with? OJ Simpson? Barry Sanders? Nobody to all of them. OK, I'll back off with the hall of famers. How about Frank Gore? Alex Smith was abolutely horrible last year as a rookie, came along this year kind of OK. But, the 49ers have probably the worst receivers in football, both years. Yet, Frank Gore started in the pro bowl. He has pretty good physical skills, but more importantly, he has phenomenal desire. For those that speak of Maroney's injury, even he was joking about it after missing a couple of games, implying that maybe there wasn't one. What was that all about? The jury is still out with Maroney. Way out.

First, Maroney averaged 4.3 YPC. He was a good running back. That puts him right in the pack of solid running back averages. Dillon averaged 4.1. Maroney did just fine. No-one has said that the fact that we had little at WR excused a lousy season - because Maroney didn't have a lousy season; he had a good one.

He averaged 4.1 on grass and 4.4 on turf.
He averaged 4.3 in the first 8 games and 4.2 in the second 8.
He averaged 3.9 in the first half of games and 4.7 in the second halves.

There's nothing to not like. But the fact remains that if he'd had a HoF passing attack around him the holes would have been bigger.

One last stat :

At home he averaged 3.2, on the road he averaged 5.3. Getting him off that dirt all of next year I bet his home average moves way up. How many games did Addai play on dirt and mud ?

 

[DaBruinz]

Everybody is giving Maroney a pass for some reason. Joseph Addai was also a rookie and a lot of people thought he should have been MVP or co-MVP for the SB. Yesterday I was trying to think of a RB in the playoffs that didn't look better than Maroney, or at least Maroney in the second half of the year. I couldn't think of anybody. He jukes and jives and doesn't hit the hole unless it's five yards wide. As for being a rookie, again, even running in college is not a whole lot different, and he did play 3 years at Minnesota. OK, he did average 4.3 YPC this year, but he just didn't look good down the stretch. Running with the football is so instinctive and reactive that I'm not sure how you work with him on this either.

Thank you for not considering that he was running with a rib cartelidge problem for the second half of the year. If you are going to get down on him, make sure you look at the hole picture. Also, this garbage about juking and jiving unless the hole is 5 yards wide is just that. Garbage.

You work with players on their timing. so that they are getting to the hole just as it opens. Not before and not after. There were times when Maroney went to hit the hole, but it wasn't open yet. There were times that he got to the hole after it was starting to close. Part of the problem is that our run blocking between the guards and tackles wasn't the greatest. Probably from the hole getting clogged by the lead blocker.

 

[zippo59]

Although Maroney and Jackson physically look diiferent (except for the hair) I think the comparison is appropriate because they have both been criticised for similar things earlier in the year. I definitely remember that in Jackson's rookie year he did have some hesitancy hitting the whole, as did Maroney. Jackson has clearly overcome that and silenced all the critics and I think Maroney will do the same. Jackson spent his first year splitting carries with the agin great Marshall Faulk, and Maroney with the aging great Corey Dillon. There are definitely some interesting comparisons. They are both great players.

Jackson sort of reminds me of a younger Corey Dillon. Big, powerful, and defenders don't hit him, he hits them. When Scott Linehan first became the head coach last year he was in one the team's offices and he saw Steven Jackson outside the window, but only his back was facing him and he said to someone 'who is that defensive lineman?' Jackson also has some quicks. I got to watch a little bit of him this year and he has some nice moves.

Maroney is the speedier, quicker running back, but I also think he has underrated size and strength. People act like he is a scat back but at 6 feet, 220 lbs., with room to get bigger, he definitely is not. I also recall him powering through people at times this year.

The offseason leaves time for rants like this!

 

[DaBruinz]

Unless we draft another big lineman I would expect the same next year as this year. If you cannot run block the last 2 years, why would it change now? A deep threat WR may pull the defense off the line a bit, and that would help also.

The reasom Addai was good this year was because of Manning. Teams would rather give up 5 yards then 7 points. Manning is always a threat! What do you think would happen if Brady had those two WR's? Maroney would still be running!

This is just absolute foolish thinking.

1) The Pats DID run block and did so very well. If you look at Dillon, Maroney and Faulk, they each had a YPC over 4. To say they couldn't run block is just ignorance.

2) Last year, the Pats had a TON of injuries on their offense. If you are going to criticize the team, make sure you know what you are talking about. Matt Light missed 13 games last season and Don Koppen missed 7. Ashworth missed 2 games and Kaczur missed 2 games as well. At one point, Light and Ashworth were both out, forcing Kaczur to be the starting LT and Gorin the starting RT. Add to that Mankins and Kaczur being rookies and its understandable that the Pats running game wasn't great.

3) Also, last year, Corey Dillon missed 4 games and didn't play in 3 more. And the last 4 games of the season he was playing hurt. Kevin Faulk missed 8 games last season. Patrick Pass missed 4 games. At one point the Pats had to rely on Heath Evans to be their running back. How is the running game supposed to be good when you have 5 major components HURT?

The Pats added O'Callaghan and Kaczur is another year better. That is more than enough reason to believe this team will be better running the ball.

 

[Patstopia]

This is just absolute foolish thinking.

1) The Pats DID run block and did so very well. If you look at Dillon, Maroney and Faulk, they each had a YPC over 4. To say they couldn't run block is just ignorance.

2) Last year, the Pats had a TON of injuries on their offense. If you are going to criticize the team, make sure you know what you are talking about. Matt Light missed 13 games last season and Don Koppen missed 7. Ashworth missed 2 games and Kaczur missed 2 games as well. At one point, Light and Ashworth were both out, forcing Kaczur to be the starting LT and Gorin the starting RT. Add to that Mankins and Kaczur being rookies and its understandable that the Pats running game wasn't great.

3) Also, last year, Corey Dillon missed 4 games and didn't play in 3 more. And the last 4 games of the season he was playing hurt. Kevin Faulk missed 8 games last season. Patrick Pass missed 4 games. At one point the Pats had to rely on Heath Evans to be their running back. How is the running game supposed to be good when you have 5 major components HURT?

The Pats added O'Callaghan and Kaczur is another year better. That is more than enough reason to believe this team will be better running the ball.

I don't think your judging the line correctly. Look at the last 8 games. Your telling me that they could run block? Or the previous year? Or the playoffs? Please, figures don't tell the story, they need help!

 

[JackBauer]

I don't think your judging the line correctly. Look at the last 8 games. Your telling me that they could run block? Or the previous year? Or the playoffs? Please, figures don't tell the story, they need help!

The OL can block just fine. What they really need is more receiving weapons (i.e. deep threat) so that opposing teams will respect our passing game and not load up against the run.

 

[Remix 6]

The OL can block just fine. What they really need is more receiving weapons (i.e. deep threat) so that opposing teams will respect our passing game and not load up against the run.

no OL cant block just fine. theres a reason why Maroney and Dillon got stuffed a lot of the time. even with 8 men in box the OL doesnt seem to be working as a group and the scheme just might be bad overall

 

[everlong]

I think our O-line does well pass blocking but they still need work run blocking. I would like to see them zone block more. I would also like to see more pitch outs to Maroney to get him to the edge quicker. Watch the 2001 America's Team or 3 Games to Glory. We used to pitch out a lot to Smith and Faulk. I'd like to see more of that. I also think O'Callahan is the best run blocking RT we had and that played a part in lower run numbers after he went out. Matt Light has been a better run blocker in other years, he was recovering from an injury so I hope that played a part in his not being up to par.

Although Jackson and Maroney are not clones my point when starting this was that Jackson was a big factor in the passing game his rookie year, he didn't hit the hole hard, and he was splitting time with a vet, so give LM a chance and he will give us Jackson numbers.

If this three year progression looks like Jackson nobody will be complaining.

 

[Fanfrom1960]

Thank you for not considering that he was running with a rib cartelidge problem for the second half of the year. If you are going to get down on him, make sure you look at the hole picture. Also, this garbage about juking and jiving unless the hole is 5 yards wide is just that. Garbage.

You work with players on their timing. so that they are getting to the hole just as it opens. Not before and not after. There were times when Maroney went to hit the hole, but it wasn't open yet. There were times that he got to the hole after it was starting to close. Part of the problem is that our run blocking between the guards and tackles wasn't the greatest. Probably from the hole getting clogged by the lead blocker.

As I recall, he made light of his injury though, implying that he didn't know why he wasn't being played more. Maybe he was misquoted. If he was injured, sure, all bets are off on my argument. Still, the general feeling around here is that the Patriots are set at RB, at least as far as Maroney is concerned. I wouldn't even say that about Addai, who played well all year and in the playoffs. Sophomore slump anyone? Maroney only showed what he can do for half a season, not enough yet to take to the bank. You think Belichick considers him a slam dunk? Bet he doesn't.