Stephen Jackson vs Maroney

[PonyExpress]

Once upon a time, a certain rb suffered a rib injury in the 11th game of the season. Up to that point he had been a sensation, there was talk of him maybe becoming the best rb in the NFL. After that rib injury his team faced a crucial stretch of 4 games that would decide their playoff fate. This rb, talented both running and receiving, averaged less than 3.4 yards per carry during that stretch, 12 yards receiving per game, scored ZERO TDs, and was benched in his team's most important game of the season after being completely ineffective, in the dome at Indy vs. Indianapolis. People questioned whether he was on the downside, had lost a step, was dancing in the hole, if his back-up should be given a bigger share of the load. The year was 2005. The running back was Ladainian Tomlinson.

Maroney was just hitting his stride, rushing and receiving, when he tore his rib cartilage. He had a very strong game against the Packers, going for 82 yards rushing and scoring on a pretty 20 yards screen pass. The Bears were determined not to let Maroney and Dillon beat them going into the game, and stacked the box, sure that their pass defense, ranked #1 in the NFL at the time, would dominate the Pats unheralded receiving corps. They were wrong, and their run defense-first mindset allowed Brady to march up and down the field, the 1st time all year the Bears had allowed more than 300 yards of offense in a game.

Maroney was injured against Detroit, didn't play vs. Mia and Houston. In his 1st game back, he appeared to ice the victory with a 27 yard TD run. Against Tenn, he torched them to the tune of 73 yards on 13 carries and a long run to the 1 yard line setting up Testaverde's garbage TD. Vs. the Jets he led the team in rushing with 69 yards. HOWEVER:

after his rib injury, he was rarely used as a receiver, a role in which he had abused the Packers and shredded the Bears. The reason? As a receiver out of the backfield you leave your ribs unprotected. IMO Maroney had a serious rib issue that was reaggravated in the Jet game. He played though it, demonstrating his toughness and earning the respect of his teammates. Of course, that's not enough for some fans.

As for Steven Jackson, if anyone watched him closely his rookie year, he played like a ****y down the stretch when he was slightly injured, going down at the slightest contact to avoid injury. He angered Martz (that isn't hard to do) with his soft play, and lost some face with the Ram fans and his teammates. He has since turned it around and demonstrated the tough running style he was predicted to have out of college (although his YPA is always low, even against the putrid run defenses of the NFC West).

As for the Pats O-line over the last 8 games... here are the running stats (minus victory kneel downs to close out games):

vs. Det: 21/82 (no Maroney)
vs. Mia: 25/123 (no Maroney)
vs. Hou: 34/109 (no Maroney)
vs. Jack: 27/120
vs. Ten: 30/172
vs. NYJ: 37/159
vs. SD: 20/52
vs. Ind: 24/93

What I see here is in the 3 games after Maroney returned from injury, the Pats averaged 150 yards rushing per game, and 4.8 yards per carry. Those are monster performances. Then, the bottom fell out. What happened?

With a healthy front 7 SD is the best team in the AFC vs the run and has been since 2005. An extra week of rest only adds to the effectiveness. I also speculate that Maroney reaggravated his rib injury vs. the Jets. Against Indy, the Pats simply abandoned the run, inexplicably, in the 2nd half. They decided to try to match blows through the air vs. Indy, and the strategy backfired.

 

[JackBauer]

no OL cant block just fine. theres a reason why Maroney and Dillon got stuffed a lot of the time. even with 8 men in box the OL doesnt seem to be working as a group and the scheme just might be bad overall

Oh n0es, they must be the only RBs in the league who get stuffed behind the line.

Despite what you would have the rest of us believe, the Pats were 12th in the NFL in total rushing this year DESPITE having close to the worst starting WRs in the NFL.

So in other words, complete nonsense.

 

[shmessy]

Addai did a good job and is a good player, but a LOT of the time the guy ran into nickel D's with teams concentrating on EVERYONE EXCEPT HIM. There is a huge difference between their circumstances.

Exactly. How many times did Addai run against "Eight in the Box". How many times did Maroney?

Case closed.

 

[DaBruinz]

I don't think your judging the line correctly. Look at the last 8 games. Your telling me that they could run block? Or the previous year? Or the playoffs? Please, figures don't tell the story, they need help!

OK, busterbrown. You haven't shown you know what you are talking about, but you want me to believe you? Its amazing that everyone is telling you the same thing and they have a TON more credibility than you do.

And YES, I am telling you they can run block. Why don't YOU go back and look at the last 8 games again because its clear you are severely mis-informed.

As for the previous year, do you insist on being stupid or are you truly that ignorant that you didn't read my post?

 

[PatsSteve1]

If I had to pick between Jackson and Marooney right now I'd take Jackson, obviously. Marooney will be OK. The Patriots faced a lot of teams that played 8 near the LOS and couldn't really do much about that. They didn't try to pass downfield often and weren't successful very often in those attempts. Making teams respect downfield passing will help the run game

 

[Patriot Missile]

If I had to pick between Jackson and Marooney right now I'd take Jackson, obviously. Marooney will be OK. The Patriots faced a lot of teams that played 8 near the LOS and couldn't really do much about that. They didn't try to pass downfield often and weren't successful very often in those attempts. Making teams respect downfield passing will help the run game

I think any sane fan would. Jackson is a seasoned vet now. I'm hoping for similar things from Maroney in the near future though. The thing that has amazed me about Jackson is the way he has developed into catching passes out of the backfield. He was magnificent this season.

 

[Krugman]

Many good points re Maroney,but I think he has a large upside,next year should answer any lingering doubts.The guy has amazing speed(I keep thinking of that burst he used on his TD run against JAX,looked like every one else was in slow motion).One must consider the many times he was stuffed for minus yards or very short gains,also.Whether this is because of stacked defences,bad run-blocking,bad play calling or just a lack of ability on his part will have to be seen next season....

 

[frankiesfly]

I think this would be a more fair match up after Maroneys next season. Jackson has 2 full seasons in. After Maroney plays a full season next year, i think it will be easier to compare the two. Right now after comparing them to the seasons they had last year. I take Jackson without hesitation.

 

[everlong]

I think this would be a more fair match up after Maroneys next season. Jackson has 2 full seasons in. After Maroney plays a full season next year, i think it will be easier to compare the two. Right now after comparing them to the seasons they had last year. I take Jackson without hesitation.

That's the entire point of the post. Jackson wasn't Jackson after his rookie year and in many ways he wasn't even Maroney when you consider all of the weapons the Rams had at that point.

Everybody be patient with LM it's coming.

 

[stcjones]

Addai did a good job and is a good player, but a LOT of the time the guy ran into nickel D's with teams concentrating on EVERYONE EXCEPT HIM. There is a huge difference between their circumstances.

great points

 

[stcjones]

Unless we draft another big lineman I would expect the same next year as this year. If you cannot run block the last 2 years, why would it change now? A deep threat WR may pull the defense off the line a bit, and that would help also.

The reasom Addai was good this year was because of Manning. Teams would rather give up 5 yards then 7 points. Manning is always a threat! What do you think would happen if Brady had those two WR's? Maroney would still be running!

You are right ...it obviously has to start with the O line.....(with a back like Maroney especially) for the RB to be successful. Our O line has been inconsistent for the past few years......Need to address this in offseason...

 

[Oswlek]

Once upon a time, a certain rb suffered a rib injury in the 11th game of the season. Up to that point he had been a sensation, there was talk of him maybe becoming the best rb in the NFL. After that rib injury his team faced a crucial stretch of 4 games that would decide their playoff fate. This rb, talented both running and receiving, averaged less than 3.4 yards per carry during that stretch, 12 yards receiving per game, scored ZERO TDs, and was benched in his team's most important game of the season after being completely ineffective, in the dome at Indy vs. Indianapolis. People questioned whether he was on the downside, had lost a step, was dancing in the hole, if his back-up should be given a bigger share of the load. The year was 2005. The running back was Ladainian Tomlinson.

Maroney was just hitting his stride, rushing and receiving, when he tore his rib cartilage. He had a very strong game against the Packers, going for 82 yards rushing and scoring on a pretty 20 yards screen pass. The Bears were determined not to let Maroney and Dillon beat them going into the game, and stacked the box, sure that their pass defense, ranked #1 in the NFL at the time, would dominate the Pats unheralded receiving corps. They were wrong, and their run defense-first mindset allowed Brady to march up and down the field, the 1st time all year the Bears had allowed more than 300 yards of offense in a game.

Maroney was injured against Detroit, didn't play vs. Mia and Houston. In his 1st game back, he appeared to ice the victory with a 27 yard TD run. Against Tenn, he torched them to the tune of 73 yards on 13 carries and a long run to the 1 yard line setting up Testaverde's garbage TD. Vs. the Jets he led the team in rushing with 69 yards. HOWEVER:

after his rib injury, he was rarely used as a receiver, a role in which he had abused the Packers and shredded the Bears. The reason? As a receiver out of the backfield you leave your ribs unprotected. IMO Maroney had a serious rib issue that was reaggravated in the Jet game. He played though it, demonstrating his toughness and earning the respect of his teammates. Of course, that's not enough for some fans.

As for Steven Jackson, if anyone watched him closely his rookie year, he played like a ****y down the stretch when he was slightly injured, going down at the slightest contact to avoid injury. He angered Martz (that isn't hard to do) with his soft play, and lost some face with the Ram fans and his teammates. He has since turned it around and demonstrated the tough running style he was predicted to have out of college (although his YPA is always low, even against the putrid run defenses of the NFC West).

As for the Pats O-line over the last 8 games... here are the running stats (minus victory kneel downs to close out games):

vs. Det: 21/82 (no Maroney)
vs. Mia: 25/123 (no Maroney)
vs. Hou: 34/109 (no Maroney)
vs. Jack: 27/120
vs. Ten: 30/172
vs. NYJ: 37/159
vs. SD: 20/52
vs. Ind: 24/93

What I see here is in the 3 games after Maroney returned from injury, the Pats averaged 150 yards rushing per game, and 4.8 yards per carry. Those are monster performances. Then, the bottom fell out. What happened?

With a healthy front 7 SD is the best team in the AFC vs the run and has been since 2005. An extra week of rest only adds to the effectiveness. I also speculate that Maroney reaggravated his rib injury vs. the Jets. Against Indy, the Pats simply abandoned the run, inexplicably, in the 2nd half. They decided to try to match blows through the air vs. Indy, and the strategy backfired.

I love your posts Pony, but there are a few things here that I have to question/disagree.

1) I see that you wrote IMO before it, but your first mention of Maroney's injury reaggravation against NY speaks as if it is fact, but then you say "speculate" the second time you bring it up. Do you have a reason to believe this other than the results of the following games? If not, why discuss how Maroney endeared himself to his teammates when you're not even sure if the event happened at all?

2) In the second half of the Indy game, Dillon and Faulk had injury issues and Maroney was completely ineffective. I would have liked to see NE run a little more, but is Evans really someone that you want pounding the ball? I would say it was a mistake if Dillon and Faulk were fine, but they weren't.

 

[Remix 6]

Oh n0es, they must be the only RBs in the league who get stuffed behind the line.

Despite what you would have the rest of us believe, the Pats were 12th in the NFL in total rushing this year DESPITE having close to the worst starting WRs in the NFL.

So in other words, complete nonsense.

k. when u have 3 RBs running the ball..youd expect to be top 15

LJ has been stuffed the most..but that doesnt take away from him being a great back

 

[PonyExpress]

I love your posts Pony, but there are a few things here that I have to question/disagree.

1) I see that you wrote IMO before it, but your first mention of Maroney's injury reaggravation against NY speaks as if it is fact, but then you say "speculate" the second time you bring it up. Do you have a reason to believe this other than the results of the following games? If not, why discuss how Maroney endeared himself to his teammates when you're not even sure if the event happened at all?

2) In the second half of the Indy game, Dillon and Faulk had injury issues and Maroney was completely ineffective. I would have liked to see NE run a little more, but is Evans really someone that you want pounding the ball? I would say it was a mistake if Dillon and Faulk were fine, but they weren't.

Good points all, and I plead guilty. My feelings about Maroney reaggravating his injury are pure speculation based on the fact he was never used in the passing game again, and ran so tentatively in the playoffs after the Jet game. My feelings about how Maroney's teammates feel about him are from BB's comments about the rookie after the Indy playoff loss, where BB spoke very highly of him, in a way that didn't seem justified by LM's on-field performance over the last 2 weeks. As for the Dillon injury rendering the running game obsolete in the 2nd half vs Indy, I would like to believe you are right. However, wasn't the reason for the 12 men in the huddle penalty in the 4th Q the presence of Dillon and Evans together? How hurt was Dillon? Unanswered questions are what make the pain from the Indy loss linger... how hurt was Dillon?

 

[Oswlek]

Good points all, and I plead guilty. My feelings about Maroney reaggravating his injury are pure speculation based on the fact he was never used in the passing game again, and ran so tentatively in the playoffs after the Jet game. My feelings about how Maroney's teammates feel about him are from BB's comments about the rookie after the Indy playoff loss, where BB spoke very highly of him, in a way that didn't seem justified by LM's on-field performance over the last 2 weeks. As for the Dillon injury rendering the running game obsolete in the 2nd half vs Indy, I would like to believe you are right. However, wasn't the reason for the 12 men in the huddle penalty in the 4th Q the presence of Dillon and Evans together? How hurt was Dillon? Unanswered questions are what make the pain from the Indy loss linger... how hurt was Dillon?

Evans was most certainly the 12th man, but I am not aware who the other guy was. If you are right and it is Dillon, than that means that Dillon was at least healthy enough to give it a go to seal the win. That doesn't mean that he was healthy enough to be a workhorse the rest of the time, but it adds to my disappointment a little. There is no way that Indy stops three straight plays where the run is a legitimate threat. And why wasn't Dillon at least on the field on the 3rd and 4 if Evans was just going to be a decoy (which he appeared to be considering how strongly Brady locked in on Brown)?

d%#*!@t Pony! Why'd you have to stir that up?