Standing Up To The Patriots Works

[Pats726]

Yes, and players can choose to give discounts to teams like the patriots, steelers, giants and colts. However, it seems that fans are most willing to give discounts. How many of us would give up 1/3 of our salary if only our company had a good year?

Apples and oranges...Are you REALLY comparing a sport to a company?? Emplyers OF a company to players on a team?? If you wish to believe that fine.. but the anaalogy is way off base..

 

[mgteich]

Yeah, why compare a sport to a real business.

Players have worked for a decade to get their chance at the NFL. They will get their money over a very few years. It is not reasonable for them to take discounts unless they are on their third contract. Guys who have laready made it with their second contract sometimes take discounts to "win championships". They have already provided for their children and grandchildren.

Apples and oranges...Are you REALLY comparing a sport to a company?? Emplyers OF a company to players on a team?? If you wish to believe that fine.. but the anaalogy is way off base..

 

[DaBruinz]

Yeah, why compare a sport to a real business.

Players have worked for a decade to get their chance at the NFL. They will get their money over a very few years. It is not reasonable for them to take discounts unless they are on their third contract. Guys who have laready made it with their second contract sometimes take discounts to "win championships". They have already provided for their children and grandchildren.

With the money Wilfork has made, he's already provided for his children and his grandchildren if he made some smart investments and didn't piss it all away on cars and things of little long term value.

You are bouncing all over the place MG. First you try and claim that Warren and Koppen and many others took the Patriots to town for more money.. And now you are acting like the Patriots have never had a player take a discount on their second contract.

Its pretty funny how try to claim that OTHERS are saying that Wilfork is a greedy person, when its coming across that YOU are the one saying it.

 

[Pats726]

Yeah, why compare a sport to a real business.

Apples and oranges...Compare them as fruits..BUT not the same...and I think you know that..but that is OK..

 

[mgteich]

I apologize if I was unclear. I think that all our players have taken the money. All are greedy, and greed is good. I don't think that anyone has taken advantage of the patriots. No one is that good. Some have done better than others in getting more than they might have. Some have ended getting their paycheck elsewhere.

Seymour was greedy and is doing very well, and will do well in his next contract. I expect that Wilfork will do the same. DO YOU DISAGREE?

THE BOTTOM LINE
1) I don't think that Wilfork will or should sign a 5 year contract for $6M a year.
2) I SUSPECT that the patriots will offer and have him sign a contract for more before Game One of the season.

And I do bounce around. I used to believe that the patriots played hardball with all but a few of the top players. Now I think that it is more and less complicated than that. Kraft is running a business and he will do what is best for the business.

With the money Wilfork has made, he's already provided for his children and his grandchildren if he made some smart investments and didn't piss it all away on cars and things of little long term value.

You are bouncing all over the place MG. First you try and claim that Warren and Koppen and many others took the Patriots to town for more money.. And now you are acting like the Patriots have never had a player take a discount on their second contract.

Its pretty funny how try to claim that OTHERS are saying that Wilfork is a greedy person, when its coming across that YOU are the one saying it.

 

[TriplecHamp]

We are told how tough Kraft, Pioli and Belichick have been with players. After all, they are ruthless in cutting players and trading like Law, Milloy, McGinist and Vrabel. They are ruthless in not overpaying for UFA's like Woody, Banta-Cain and Givens.

HOWEVER, there is the rest of the story. The following players stood up to the patriots and either got extended contract or the oportunity to make more money elsewhere than the team was originally offering or perhaps ever offering. It is sometimes hard to tell. But suffice it to say, the players could pay for the groceries.
SEYMOUR
WARREN
KOPPEN
BRANCH
SAMUEL (after being forced to accept $8M, he sat out to exclude anopther year at $9M).

Even Law and Milloy received fine contracts elsewhere when they were pushed out. Obviously many free agents did very well contract-wise elsewhere.

In the end, it is still the market (albeit a very constrained market) that determines value.
============================================================

The bottom line is that the NFL, and Wilfork (as Seymour before him), is worth much more than he is being paid. Wilfork is doing what other patriots have before him. It seems unreasonable that he won't succeed as others have succeeded.

I am with you 100%. I am sure Wilfork wants to return but We need to pay the man and if we dont than Wilfork shouldn't play. I was on earlier and people were talking all this BS about "honoring contracts". Get out of here with that. How many coordinators have left with time still left on their contracts? If you play well you should be payed accordingly. If Kraft dosnt want to open up his wallet than wilfork should "forget how to put on his pads". As Asante would say..."get paid"

 

[TruthSeeker]

You can continue to misrepresent what other people are saying, too.

My thinking exactly.

 

[TruthSeeker]

I apologize if I was unclear. I think that all our players have taken the money.

I was amazed when I heard the details of Tom Brady's contract years ago. I still am. He was not greedy and did not go after the money. And I hear he can play a little, too.

 

[Zeus]

My guess is that the Patriots assign a value - the maximum amount of money they will pay for any particular player. They then try to negotiate the best deal they can within those parameters. If the team and the player disagree on that value, the player walks. Some guys stay even though they might have gotten more elsewhere; some leave.

This doesn't mean that the Patriots don't make mistakes - they do. But they are less inclined to overpay than others; that's the mistake that they try to avoid.

I also think that the players who show up for work and keep their negotiations out the the media tend to do better. Rewarding the holdouts and public bellyachers would only serve to encourage others to act the same way.

 

[Deus Irae]

To the best of our knowledge, 6 high profile players have had 'issues' that were considered significant and put up any degree of a stink:

Law
Milloy
Branch
Seymour
Watson
Samuel

Watson caved. Law lost money, as did Milloy. Seymour got money, Branch got freedom (the Patriots got a 1st round pick and the Seahawks got the raw end of the deal in hindsight), and Samuel got freedom from the Franchise tag after one year of it.

That's probably best looked at as a 3-3 split.

 

[DaBruinz]

To the best of our knowledge, 6 high profile players have had 'issues' that were considered significant and put up any degree of a stink:

Law
Milloy
Branch
Seymour
Watson
Samuel

Watson caved. Law lost money, as did Milloy. Seymour got money, Branch got freedom (the Patriots got a 1st round pick and the Seahawks got the raw end of the deal in hindsight), and Samuel got freedom from the Franchise tag after one year of it.

That's probably best looked at as a 3-3 split.

Just a point of information. Watson didn't have an issue with the contract the Patriots offered. Tom Condon did. And Watson's contract was done within 2 days of him being able to hire another agent.

Seymour got money, but as I pointed out, the Patriots agreed that he could stay home until they could officially do the contract. And that had to wait until a certain day because they had already modified his contract the previous year.

 

[Deus Irae]

Just a point of information. Watson didn't have an issue with the contract the Patriots offered. Tom Condon did. And Watson's contract was done within 2 days of him being able to hire another agent.

Seymour got money, but as I pointed out, the Patriots agreed that he could stay home until they could officially do the contract. And that had to wait until a certain day because they had already modified his contract the previous year.

Watson didn't have an issue because he caved in a hurry, but I get your point. I score it 3-3 because the player = the agent for negotiation purposes, so I count Condon since he was there at the start. Others might score it 3-2 players, or give the Patriots a draw with Branch since they got the 1st round pick.

Seymour's an interesting case because he kept it mostly out of the media. He is, so far, the only one who did that. I think it's probably not a coincidence that he's the only one who 'won' and is still with the team, given that approach.

 

[Leave No Doubt]

Seymour's an interesting case because he kept it mostly out of the media. He is, so far, the only one who did that. I think it's probably not a coincidence that he's the only one who 'won' and is still with the team, given that approach.

:agree: and I think that's one reason he sometimes slips under the radar; he's not a media ho, he's a man of few words even in his post-game pressers. That's a really good point Deus; I'd imagine this kind of attitude makes it that much easier to just get the deal done, sans the bs.

The mouthy ones tend to move on more often than not I think; sometimes it seems like the more publicity the less likely it is that a deal gets worked out.

 

[Miguel]

To the best of our knowledge, 6 high profile players have had 'issues' that were considered significant and put up any degree of a stink:

Law
Milloy
Branch
Seymour
Watson
Samuel

Watson caved. Law lost money, as did Milloy. Seymour got money, Branch got freedom (the Patriots got a 1st round pick and the Seahawks got the raw end of the deal in hindsight), and Samuel got freedom from the Franchise tag after one year of it.

That's probably best looked at as a 3-3 split.

How did Milloy lose money???

 

[spacecrime]

A handful of greedy bad apples has yet to spoil this pot.

I've read this sentence several time and it makes my brain hurt.

I'm sorry, but there is something horribly wrong with the metaphor combinations. Perhaps you could work in something about not crying over spoiled apples in the pot not boiling, and or maybe some apples being in the pot and others in the bush ....

 

[ausbacker]

I apologize if I was unclear. I think that all our players have taken the money. All are greedy, and greed is good. I don't think that anyone has taken advantage of the patriots. No one is that good. Some have done better than others in getting more than they might have. Some have ended getting their paycheck elsewhere.

Seymour was greedy and is doing very well, and will do well in his next contract. I expect that Wilfork will do the same. DO YOU DISAGREE?

THE BOTTOM LINE
1) I don't think that Wilfork will or should sign a 5 year contract for $6M a year.
2) I SUSPECT that the patriots will offer and have him sign a contract for more before Game One of the season.

And I do bounce around. I used to believe that the patriots played hardball with all but a few of the top players. Now I think that it is more and less complicated than that. Kraft is running a business and he will do what is best for the business.

You're reading like someone who knows their argument is nonsensical, yet stick to it anyway out of obligation to previous posting in the thread.