Someone tell me why Mayo and Crable are going to buck the Pats LB trend

[Deus Irae]

I thought we resolved that, didn't we?

You agreed - actually came right out and stated - that Stallworth was NOT used as a deep threat, and nor was anyone else deemed a deep threat besides Moss.

No, that's not what I stated. That would make no sense at all, given that Moss didn't play every snap. If I did state that, it would clearly have been an error.

The question is whether McDaniels couldn't or wouldn't use Stallworth as a deep threat WR.

No, it's not. You keep arguing a falsehood and acting as if you're producing the holy grail.

If it's "couldn't" then the lack of use of Stallworth deep is understandable. If it's "wouldn't" - well then the question remains, why wouldn't an OC use a proven deep threat when an alternative to Moss would have been a help in many ways?

I don't have the answer to the "couldn't or wouldn't" yet and admit it.

Given that the numbers proved your argument wrong, why don't you just stop posting about it rather than making erroneous assertions and then weaseling out with the "couldn't or wouldn't" backslide?

Others feel that they DO have the answer - and the answer is Stallworth, despite his previously proven skills - is NOT a viable deep threat option. Therefore McDaniels couldn't use Stallworth deep and is above criticism, and as such they get very angry should anyone actually consider this question far from closed.

100% of the NFL wide receivers, tight ends, running backs and quarterbacks are a 'viable deep threat' under the right conditions. It all depends on the meaning behind the label. That's why I used your definition for "deep" in the first place. Your own definition proved your point wrong. Accept it and move on.

Personally, I think its a better practice around here for people to keep an open mind than to make up their minds before all the information is in - but that's just me.

In any event I believe there is an active thread regarding the "status quo" of the offense and suggest you make related remarks there.

Funny, I gave you the information and you denied it, ignored it, then tried to re-define everything despite it being your definition being used. When did that equate to keeping an open mind?

 

[JoeSixPat]

No, that's not what I stated. That would make no sense at all, given that Moss didn't play every snap.

Randy Moss was in on 90% of the offensive snaps.

Are you SURE you don't have a split personality?

Both Stallworth and Gaffney were used deep, as their numbers show.

Being used deep does not make one a "deep threat", as anyone who understands what's meant by "deep threat" knows.

100% of the NFL wide receivers, tight ends, running backs and quarterbacks are a 'viable deep threat' under the right conditions.

I'm not quite sure how to offer a coherent response to an incoherent string of arguments

Amazingly now you're going so far as to say that Maroney or Brady or apparently any player on the field should be considered "viable deep threats" (under the right conditions as you say)? That's nothing short of bizarre - and I don't think anyone's going to buy the fact that Maroney - or apparently Tom Brady used as a "viable deep threat" is going to do anything to ease the intense coverage Moss encountered.

I'm reminded of the Abe Lincoln line - how many legs would a dog have if you counted its tail as a leg? Four. Just because you call a tail a leg doesn't make it so.

A legitimate deep threat alternative to Moss would help. Calling Kevin Faulk, Lawrence Maroney or Matt Cassell a deep threat doesn't make them one.

I think you're back to arguing with yourself again - and I'm probably speaking for most when I suggest you take that argument to a relevant thread.

 

[Deus Irae]

Are you SURE you don't have a split personality?

Call me when 90%=100%


As for the rest, you making the claim that something is incoherent does not make it so, any more than your "deep threat" claim was correct. The whole point was that you manufactured your definition of "deep threat" and then couldn't accept it when the facts destroyed your argument.

Have a nice evening.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Call me when 90%=100%


As for the rest, you making the claim that something is incoherent does not make it so, any more than your "deep threat" claim was correct. The whole point was that you manufactured your definition of "deep threat" and then couldn't accept it when the facts destroyed your argument.

Have a nice evening.

Sounds good.

Just as long as you call me when Tom Brady's being used as a deep threat WR

100% of the NFL wide receivers, tight ends, running backs and quarterbacks are a 'viable deep threat' under the right conditions.

Classic Deus! You've probably got some stats to prove QBs are a deep threat too!

 

[AzPatsFan]

I think many of you are thoughtless, and want to play with nice, shiny, new toys. You should know Belichick better than that by now.

Belichick, off his history, develops his players, before they play. First rounders earn playing time and start getting some minutes but usually not starting by the end of their rookie years. So the starting day ILBs will be Bruschii, the signal caller, and Hobson, with occasionally some plays by AD,and or Seau. Mayo will see the field over the season, and might work his way up to 1/3 the snaps by the playoffs, maybe. He would have to be a Superstar to do better. Even SeyMonsta had to earn his playing time as a rook.

At OLB, you forget that Pierrre Woods is now in his third year in the system. He has improved every year. He has far outdistanced Izzo as the special team leader, as Izzo continues to fade. Woods had the most ST tackles by far last year and the year before too.

Woods is currently playing strongside OLB behind Vrabel, but that was because he was a better fit there, as a run contain OLB, when Rosey and AD were in the the ROLB position. Now Rosey is gone and AD inherits the job, almost fulltime. When AD moves inside for some snaps, they need an experienced guy to pass rush and hold the weakside run. I think Pierre is the logical guy to do it, instead of rookie Crabel or Hobson.

Unlike many of you, I see Pierre evolving into a starter at Pass Rush OLB, i.e. ROLB.

Crabel is and has shown himself to be a fine power OLB, able to string the rush out to the sidelines, contain the run, and tackle the RB for a loss.

As such he will probably back up Vrabel, as that is logically his best position. He needs a year in the weightroom to beef up, ands SOLB is less of a pass rush position than WOLB. Vrabel is older than AD, but is a full timer at LOLB, and except for occasional blows, will play all the snaps. Crable therefor, can be groomed for the job at LOLB, strongside OLB, for a couple of years. Sounds reasonable as way to get him some experience.

Meanwhile, Pierre Woods is about ready now. The best place for his platooning, is with AD, who will be moving around, sometimes going inside, especially on coverage third downs.

Belichick likes Woods; he is as prone to toss compliments around as if they were twenty dollar gold pieces, but Bill has been fullsome in his praise of Woods. Plus Belichick considers him a draft day steal; and has said so. Lloyd Carr mismanaged Woods, (and Crabel), and bad mouthed him to the pro scouts. Off his sophomore production, Pierre was projected as a future first rounder; until he ended up in Carr's doghouse. So he went undrafted as a lazy headcase.

Well Belichick proved Carr wrong. You don't become the leader of ST, and the lead ST tackler by being a lazy goof off. Plus Pierre has the ideal size and speed to play OLB for the Pats at 6-5" 250#s and 4.6 speed. He reminds me of a young Vrabel, who sat on the bench in Pittsburgh, before blossoming first into a starter, and then a star under Belichcik. :rocker:

 

[AzPatsFan]

I would like to permanently put to to rest the idea that Belichick doesn't draft LBs. This year he took Mayo one and Crabel three.

But he took three LBs high, when he ran the Browns draft, taking Gerald Dixon and Mike Caldwell in the third round; and drafting Craig Powell in the first round.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Sedrick Ellis wasn't good value?

Not in the Pats system, he wasn't. He isi a penetrating, smallish, 3 position, DT.
We don't need those. Did Klecko make it?

 

[AzPatsFan]

Feeling ignored during the pissing match? Funny because you made a few comments that should have raised the ire of more than a few posters here.

Hobson in the OLB rotation? I think there's a chance of that, but a lot of posters would disagree. My sense is he'll take snaps at both ILB and OLB during TC, with the focus on ILB. But I wouldn't be surprised if we see him more than a few times in the regular season lined up at WOLB with AD at WILB on teams that can't match up at C and LG. With Seymour healthy, that's one heck of an inside rush and all Hobson has to do is tie up the LT and watch for the screen.

Personally, I'm thrilled with the Hobson signing and I think he'll have something of a Morris / Welker effect, surprising people with his performance as a starter. They scouted this guy carefully and I'm looking forward to a pleasant surprise. He won't keep Mayo off the field, but I'd be surprised if his presence at either ILB (moving AD to OLB) or at OLB won't effectively keep Woods and Crable off the field.

I wonder how well Hobson will do inside. Mangini's Jets needed an ILB and Hobson wouldn't do for the same system the Pats play. Why?

Maybe he didn't have enough time for the conversion. Maybe Vilma was too small, and Hobson didn't add enough beef, inside, along with him. But Mangini eventually spent a high pick on David Harris, who I thought would be a good Pats type LB; and proved it his rookie season with the Jets.

I reserve my judgement about Hobson, until i see more. Can he play a position in a Belichick 3-4? Mangini apparently didn't think so.

 

[flasox27]

I would suggest that there is a skill difference between the Pats coaching staff and the Jets coaching staff in the development of players starting with the head coach. Mangini did a great job utilizing Vilma whom Belichick loved too.

 

[fgssand]

At OLB, you forget that Pierrre Woods is now in his third year in the system. He has improved every year. He has far outdistanced Izzo as the special team leader, as Izzo continues to fade. Woods had the most ST tackles by far last year and the year before too.

.

Unlike many of you, I see Pierre evolving into a starter at Pass Rush OLB, i.e. ROLB.
Belichick likes Woods; he is as prone to toss compliments around as if they were twenty dollar gold pieces, but Bill has been fullsome in his praise of Woods. Plus Belichick considers him a draft day steal; and has said so. Lloyd Carr mismanaged Woods, (and Crabel), and bad mouthed him to the pro scouts. Off his sophomore production, Pierre was projected as a future first rounder; until he ended up in Carr's doghouse. So he went undrafted as a lazy headcase.

Well Belichick proved Carr wrong. You don't become the leader of ST, and the lead ST tackler by being a lazy goof off. Plus Pierre has the ideal size and speed to play OLB for the Pats at 6-5" 250#s and 4.6 speed. He reminds me of a young Vrabel, who sat on the bench in Pittsburgh, before blossoming first into a starter, and then a star under Belichcik. :rocker:

Well, I sure do hope you are right and you very well may be.
2008 could be the coming out year for one Pierre Woods.

Mix in heavy doses of Bruschi, Vrabes & AD, add in the two rookies along with Hobson, bring back JR for depth & experience and we have the making of the strongest LB group since we won Superbowls.

Look for the "D" to return to dominance, once again, this year lead by the revamped LB core.