Someone tell me why Mayo and Crable are going to buck the Pats LB trend

[JoeSixPat]

I'm as excited as everyone else to have two young LBs added to the roster, especially a Top Ten pick like Mayo...

But I'm having a tough time forgetting that Belichick is so particular about which LBs can fit in his system that he's pretty much passed on drafting any LB high in the draft since - well, forever.

That's a pretty stark fact noting that BB is a guy who is always drafting with the future in mind - and hasn't been willing or able to use the draft to gain some up and coming talent even as his LB corps gets older and slower.

He's preferred to look to proven NFL veterans as a barometer of whether they can fit in the system - and even then he's been wrong.

So can someone tell me why, once the euphoria from draft weekend dies down, that I should expect Mayo and Crable to do what Belichick never felt rookie LBs were able to do in the past and step right in and contribute? (or the first ones that BB even felt were a worthy investment for the future?)

Not trying to throw cold water on our draft picks - just trying to be realistic when everyone seems to have these guys starting in their minds.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

I'm as excited as everyone else to have two young LBs added to the roster, especially a Top Ten pick like Mayo...

But I'm having a tough time forgetting that Belichick is so particular about which LBs can fit in his system that he's pretty much passed on drafting any LB high in the draft since - well, forever.

That's a pretty stark fact noting that BB is a guy who is always drafting with the future in mind - and hasn't been willing or able to use the draft to gain some up and coming talent even as his LB corps gets older and slower.

He's preferred to look to proven NFL veterans as a barometer of whether they can fit in the system - and even then he's been wrong.

So can someone tell me why, once the euphoria from draft weekend dies down, that I should expect Mayo and Crable to do what Belichick never felt rookie LBs were able to do in the past and step right in and contribute? (or the first ones that BB even felt were a worthy investment for the future?)

Not trying to throw cold water on our draft picks - just trying to be realistic when everyone seems to have these guys starting in their minds.

You answered your own question.

 

[RayClay]

I'm as excited as everyone else to have two young LBs added to the roster, especially a Top Ten pick like Mayo...

But I'm having a tough time forgetting that Belichick is so particular about which LBs can fit in his system that he's pretty much passed on drafting any LB high in the draft since - well, forever.

That's a pretty stark fact noting that BB is a guy who is always drafting with the future in mind - and hasn't been willing or able to use the draft to gain some up and coming talent even as his LB corps gets older and slower.

He's preferred to look to proven NFL veterans as a barometer of whether they can fit in the system - and even then he's been wrong.

So can someone tell me why, once the euphoria from draft weekend dies down, that I should expect Mayo and Crable to do what Belichick never felt rookie LBs were able to do in the past and step right in and contribute? (or the first ones that BB even felt were a worthy investment for the future?)

Not trying to throw cold water on our draft picks - just trying to be realistic when everyone seems to have these guys starting in their minds.

I seriously believe they painted themselves in a corner by not acquiring young talented LBs during the last 6 years when BB says they were looking for them.

Necessity is the mother of invention, hence, all of a sudden, you don't need to be an experienced vet anymore.

Apparently, you don't need to be a DE convert anymore either (Mayo).

I'm guessing with Capers on board, they are prepared to coach the hell out of young linebackers similar to the successful model they've adopted with the secondary.

 

[Bella*chick]

Maybe BB decided to try something a little different this time.

 

[borg]

Depth. With Colvin going down at the end of last season, the Pats no longer had a rotation at LB with only spot substitutions. Asking the OLBs to rush the passer, cover TEs, and chase RBs out of the backfield for 60 minutes was too much to ask. Assuming Seau returns, the Pats LB Corps is now the deepest group on the roster. Hobson, Mayo and Crable have added youth, athletism, and depth.

 

[Caspir]

I think that anyone who expects Mayo, and especially Crable to contribute immediately will be disappointed. I think Mayo will be a third down LB, and Crable will be situational as an edge rusher, and they'll both get burn on pecial teams. I think it will be 2009 by the time either of them get any regular playing time on defense, giving them each a year under the veterans on the team to learn the techniques. I still think they're really good picks though.

 

[onegameatatime]

If the Pats liked Crable so much, why were they willing to take a chance of him being snatched by someone else?

As it turns out, if they truly were going to use the 1st 3rd rounder for Crable, that means they got a second rounder next year and Matt Slater for a seventh rounder. Not bad.

 

[dante828]

I'm as excited as everyone else to have two young LBs added to the roster, especially a Top Ten pick like Mayo...

But I'm having a tough time forgetting that Belichick is so particular about which LBs can fit in his system that he's pretty much passed on drafting any LB high in the draft since - well, forever.

That's a pretty stark fact noting that BB is a guy who is always drafting with the future in mind - and hasn't been willing or able to use the draft to gain some up and coming talent even as his LB corps gets older and slower.

He's preferred to look to proven NFL veterans as a barometer of whether they can fit in the system - and even then he's been wrong.

So can someone tell me why, once the euphoria from draft weekend dies down, that I should expect Mayo and Crable to do what Belichick never felt rookie LBs were able to do in the past and step right in and contribute? (or the first ones that BB even felt were a worthy investment for the future?)

Not trying to throw cold water on our draft picks - just trying to be realistic when everyone seems to have these guys starting in their minds.

Though I think you make a fair point, I also think that you forget the last time this happened, when the Pats drafted Logan Mankins. The Pats had rarely drafted an offensive lineman so high before (Klemm and Light being exceptions, but those were only second round, and the Pats haven't drafted a lineman that high since). At the time they needed a left guard, they had someone they liked, and drafted them. Not saying that Mayo or Crable will end up just as good as Mankins is at his position, but its not unprecedented that Belichick will draft outside his normal drafting patterns if the situation and player warrants it. That's what makes the Belichick Pioli team so good, and why they have earned the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

 

[Franchise12]

other teams that employ the 3-4 defense are able to infuse youth at the Lb position, so I often saw BB's desire to have veteran lb's more so as a preference and not a necessity. with his team falling short of its ultimate goal the last few years Belichick is simply unergoing an overall philosophical transformation . it started with the realization that the offense needed to put up 28+ a game to pretty much ensure victory (ala the colts, and 99-2001 rams) so he brought in the pieces to make that happen. I think that Belichick came to the realization that the day of the Ted Johnson "thumper" style of linebacker is nearly extinct. I believe that he realized this a few years ago and its indicative of his reported interest in Vilma when he entered the draft and with Willis and Beason last year. this year we were finally in the position to draft higher rated linebacker that we coveted. usually they were gone when we picked in the late 20's and 30's. all in all mayo is athletic, smart, and has very good speed and when you consider the fact that he will be protected by one of the best D lines in football, one can only think of the things bb will do with this guy. :rocker:

 

[BelichickFan]

I don't expect to see much of Crable until 2009, other than special teams. He can add about 20 pounds to his frame and I think he job this year will be to play special teams, learn the defense and be 260 pounds in 8/09.

Mayo will play quite a bit and will add speed to the middle of the defense but that doesn't mean he'll "start". We have Vrabel and Thomas outside. Some combination of Bruschi, Hobson and (sounds like) Seau inside. If an OLB gets hurt it could thin out depending on whether Woods plays or Hobson goes outside as he clearly can do; then Mayo would be a more obvious need. I don't expect Mayo to be a full time starter until 2009 unless injuries force the issue or if Mayo is just too good to have on the sidelines.

 

[RussFrancis]

I think the team's prolific offense makes it entirely possible to mix Crable and Mayo into the lineup more than other rookies have in the past. Crable probably not so much, because I look at him really as more of a core special teamer until he's able to beef up that lower body. Though Im sure he'll see some action. But how many times was the team beating someone 35-14 last year, and all our starting backers were still out there on the field?? Get those old guys on the sidelines and give them some rest already! Last season, we didnt have a Jarod Mayo-quality backup stud LB standing on the sidelines. If we had, maybe he'd have been brought in to spell those guys. But last year was an aberration in a few ways. Belichick had the foot on the gas the whole way, and seemingly just didnt want to let up on teams anyway. But this year, I think we'll see the team mix in some of the younger guys when we have 3 score leads.

Now, maybe the O's not as prolific as it was last year. That's very likely. I still think Mayo's going to see a ton of time. And it wouldnt shock me if he ends up getting as much time on the interior as Bruschi or whoever else is on the inside. Crable's just not in the same boat, obviously. Our weakness was not on the outside so much. But with Woods and Crable, I expect to see a more liberal rotation than last year on the outside.

But these 2 guys are dynamic playmakers and have speed. If Im not mistaken, Crable led the NATION in tackles for loss last year. That's a guy who knows how to make plays. Bottom line there with him. And Mayo led the entire SEC in tackles. We just havent been able to get our hands on a player like this. Give Mayo a few months of hanging around Bruschi, Thomas and co. Because those guys know the deal. They see the light at the end of that tunnel, and they see this young fella as a big-time key to winning a title. Theyre gonna give him every ounce of help, every nugget of knowledge they possibly can. We've been missing the big plays on the inside of the front 7 for a couple years now. I expect this year that'll change a bit. I for one am really looking forward to it.

 

[satz]

I do not understand the trend you are talking about . forget the age as bb wants certain skill sets and production out of a player if you can generate it he does not care about your age.

In 01 SB and ther following dorminant runs we had upto 11 LB on the rooster .from 230 lb tweener coverage lb who step in 4-3 packages and nickel and dime to increase coverage speed but not give up too much against the run to pure rush sets with 260 lb + OLB coming in to rush in goaline and 3rd down package.

so i think they have selected and putting together this LB core back where 4 starters are asked to do everything , but 8-9 starting caliber LB in different size and skill set playing according to the defensive game plan. Last 3 yrs our LB core was really depleted and we used harrison as LB as we did not have any coverage LB and once seau and colvin went down we did not have any one to put in their.

In the year before eric alenxander at 245 is not going to give the coverage skill of a 225-230 lb pure coverage LB but against the colts we did not have harrison or another 220 lb safety or a 230lb LB so he was put in a position of mismatch.

 

[Watson's IQ]

\
So can someone tell me why, once the euphoria from draft weekend dies down, that I should expect Mayo and Crable to do what Belichick never felt rookie LBs were able to do in the past and step right in and contribute? (or the first ones that BB even felt were a worthy investment for the future?)\

Who do you think drafted them? It was obvious that BB coveted both players intensely, which to me also suggests he's sure he'll be able to work them in and see them succeed in his system.

 

[Metaphors]

Belichick seems to team-build with an eye on addressing the key pain points from the previous season. Easy examples are getting run at down the middle during the 2002 season (Ted Washington and eventually Wilfork/Traylor) and not being able to put away the Colts in 2006 AFCC game (Moss and Welker).

The pain point from the 2007 season was getting picked apart by mediocre quarterbacks in the middle of the field. Samuel and Gay didn't have the speed to cover when forced to play across the field (slants and drag routes). Rodney did an admirable job for the most part covering TEs over the middle but that resulted in him effectively playing linebacker for a good portion of the year. The pass rush was generally good, until the opposing offense got in a rhythm passing and then didn't have the extra gear to stop the momentum.

I'm sure Belichick would have loved to get veterans to deal with these issues, but he likely didn't find any available that were long-term answers. Mayo has the skill set to eventually (sooner rather than later) take over the cover role from Rodney. Wheatley and Wilhite were most likely taken because their hips and short-area speed allow them to pursue those horizontal routes and disrupt the play. Crable needs some time to develop (physically and mentally) into an every down player, but I think he was drafted to be the guy to inject energy into the pass rush this season...particularly later in the season when Vrable and AD may start to get a little gassed.

Even O'Connell fits along these same lines. Belichick saw Brady get beat up a little and couldn't have been very pleased with the prospects of Cassel leading the team in a key situation. Gutierrez is a developmental QB, but I think Belichick wanted to have a solid #2. O'Connell is raw but I think Belichick sees the game management skills he wants in a #2. I think the "Brady successor" talk is way premature since it is hard to determine the ceiling on any QB until they develop in the NFL for a year or two.

I could go into a similar discussion about special teams (Slater, Ruud) but you get the point. Belichick addresses needs, but at a deeper level than just positional needs. This draft didn't yield the perfect Patriot linebackers...but it may have provided the perfect linebackers for this particular team.

 

[patsox23]

The Patriots HAVE been willing to draft LB in the past, the board just hasn't fallen that way. They were very interested in Vilma, they were close on Willis last year but missed out on him, and even Beason (but took Meriweather instead). They wanted Stewart Bradley in last year's draft, as well.

I think your thread, while a good one, is perhaps built on a mistaken premise.

 

[Kontradiction]

In the next couple of years, between AD, Crable, Mayo, Hobson, and Ruud (not mentioning Bruschi and Seau at this point) we should have one of the quickest/biggest LB corps in the NFL. Looking forward to the days of the 'D' returning to New England.

 

[Sicilian]

I think what we're seeing is BB's attempt to adjust to the changing environment in the NFL.

As more and more rules are made to favor the offense, we've already seen the Patriots move towards a high flying speed based offense (Moss, Welker, Stallworth for one year, Maroney, Chad Jackson... all fast and quick).

Now we may be seeing BB adjust by trying to add speed and youth to areas of the defense where he used to value experience higher. Not that experience doesn't matter anymore, he still wants it obviously, but youth and speed has become a bigger piece of the equation.

 

[Kontradiction]

I might as well post this in here instead of starting a new thread: Am I the only person that thinks that Crable will make a more immediate impact on the defense than Mayo?

 

[State]

Well, we coveted Jonathan Vilma from Miami but the Jets got him before we could.

I also know we had last year's incredible rookie Patrick Willis very highly rated,though he was out of reach for us.

So it's not that the Pats are against LBers per se--it just has to be the right one.

And we nailed it with Mayo, who will almost certainly contribute from Day One, much more than Crabble, who I predict will be a special teams warrior.

 

[DarrylS]

In the next couple of years, between AD, Crable, Mayo, Hobson, and Ruud (not mentioning Bruschi and Seau at this point) we should have one of the quickest/biggest LB corps in the NFL. Looking forward to the days of the 'D' returning to New England.

Missed the memo that stated the Defense "left", imo this whole thing about starting is way overrated as this team uses so many situational sets of players dependent on the need...

Mayo is a very good pick and Crable isn't bad, Mayo will be involved in a lot of plays this year and Crable will get an increasing work load.. that is what is great about this team, we are not going to just put Mayo in the middle for 3 downs every time and expect him to be a pro bowler.. Bruschi and Seau are excellent "bridge players" for Mayo and Vrabel and Thomas much the same for Crable..