So which OLB would you pick at #22

[Marqui]

Derrick Morgan if he magically falls to 22 or Corey Wooton who is reportedly being viewed by 3-4 teams as an OLB. I'll believe BB taking a 6'2 or under OLB high in the draft when I see it.

 

[BelichickFan]

I realize the poll is flawed in many ways but I am stunned that Sapp only has 1 vote out of 40 as he's a good athlete and the only one with the height our OLB usually have (though I didn't vote for him either).

After looking at Griffen and Wooten's pro day numbers I have to admit to being a little turned on at getting one of them for the strong side and still looking at a Sapp in the second round.

FYI. I bolded the best of the comparison of the three, Wooten's 20 and 3 cone are great for his size, it's too bad most numbers today are pro day not combine so it's not a real apples to apples comparison.

Wooten :

Height: 6060
Weight: 270
40 Yrd Dash: 4.92
20 Yrd Dash: 2.79
10 Yrd Dash: 1.66
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 20
Vertical Jump: 32
Broad Jump: 09'00"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.28
3-Cone Drill: 7.00

Griffen :

Height: 6033
Weight: 273
40 Yrd Dash: 4.60
20 Yrd Dash: 2.67
10 Yrd Dash: 1.61
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 32
Vertical Jump: 34
Broad Jump: 09'07"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.36
3-Cone Drill: 7.25

Morgan :

Height: 6030
Weight: 266
40 Yrd Dash: 4.77
20 Yrd Dash: 2.72
10 Yrd Dash: 1.60
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 21
Vertical Jump: 34
Broad Jump: 09'04"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.43
3-Cone Drill: 7.12

 

[Nonentity]

After looking at Griffen and Wooten's pro day numbers I have to admit to being a little turned on at getting one of them for the strong side and still looking at a Sapp in the second round.

FYI. I bolded the best of the comparison of the three, Wooten's 20 and 3 cone are great for his size, it's too bad most numbers today are pro day not combine so it's not a real apples to apples comparison.

I genuinely don't understand Wooten's numbers. A 4.9 40 and then amazing short shuttle and 3 cone numbers. I know it's not all about straight line speed but that is ridiculous. Which tells me that we can't simply rely on the numbers.

I googled and found an interview in which Wooten said he expected to run a 4.7 40. And I believe him. Those shuttle/cone numbers fit a 4.7 player but not a 4.9.


So - does that affect how Wooten looks? Or are we simply falling into the trap of looking at measurables over tape/production?

 

[SeauOUCH]

I hope we get Graham @22 to play strong side & take Worilds with the last 2nd or in a trade down in the 3rd. I think Worilds is gonna be a stud playing weak side if he can stay healthy.

On passing downs we could line up Graham at DE, with both TBC & Worilds as OLBs.

 

[Marqui]

So - does that affect how Wooten looks? Or are we simply falling into the trap of looking at measurables over tape/production?

Wooton's 08 tape/production heavily suggests he can play OLB.

 

[patchick]

Wooton's 08 tape/production heavily suggests he can play OLB.

Unfortunately, one of the big questions is whether we'll ever see the '08 pre-injury Wootton again.

 

[reflexblue]

I went with graham over hughes, in watching film graham had a non stop motor a quick first step and had the speed and strength to run around or through blockers.

 

[VJCPatriot]

BTW, check out Gholston's #s; they're insane. Why isn't this guy a dominator (yet)?

Gholston looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane. I think where the numbers are this close for the prospects, thats where productivity and film study come into the picture.

I like Jerry Hughes because on film, he comes off as a relentless pass rusher, he consistently pushes offensive linemen back due to his superior leg drive. His motor appears nonstop and he has an explosive first stop along with high agility when making pass rush moves.

Hughes repertoire may appear limited to a few moves but he appears to be a far superior pass rusher to a Sergio Kindle who can be stood up and doesn't generate the push to get off blocks once a lineman gets into his pads.

Now Hughes is not an 'ideal' pick because he's 'only' 6-2 with 33" arms, but his constant motor and pass rush abilities make him a more attractive prospect than most others after a slight trade down.

I've heard the arguments for and against Brandon Graham and I'm not quite convinced. However I think after a trade down to say the top of the 2nd round he could be a pretty good prospect if his size doesn't neutralize his effectiveness in BB's 3-4 2 gap. He's listed as 6'1 with 32 1/4 inch arms. Graham does appear to have an edge in sheer bulk though which could be useful in setting the edge vs the run. NFL Events: Combine Player Profiles - Brandon Graham

 

[patsfan55]

Wooton's 08 tape/production heavily suggests he can play OLB.

I have really liked Wooten throughout this offseason, however I've been back and forth on him as a de or olb in our system. He weighs just 270 but ran only a 4.9 40 that's not exactly a formula BB looks for.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Gholston looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane. I think where the numbers are this close for the prospects, thats where productivity and film study come into the picture.

I like Jerry Hughes because on film, he comes off as a relentless pass rusher, he consistently pushes offensive linemen back due to his superior leg drive. His motor appears nonstop and he has an explosive first stop along with high agility when making pass rush moves.

Hughes repertoire may appear limited to a few moves but he appears to be a far superior pass rusher to a Sergio Kindle who can be stood up and doesn't generate the push to get off blocks once a lineman gets into his pads.

Now Hughes is not an 'ideal' pick because he's 'only' 6-2 with 33" arms, but his constant motor and pass rush abilities make him a more attractive prospect than most others after a slight trade down.

I've heard the arguments for and against Brandon Graham and I'm not quite convinced. However I think after a trade down to say the top of the 2nd round he could be a pretty good prospect if his size doesn't neutralize his effectiveness in BB's 3-4 2 gap. He's listed as 6'1 with 32 1/4 inch arms. Graham does appear to have an edge in sheer bulk though which could be useful in setting the edge vs the run. NFL Events: Combine Player Profiles - Brandon Graham

I keep going back to the fact that over the years BB has passed on literally scores of OLB/DE types because of one minor wart here or there. How can he justify taking a Hughes or Graham after passing on a warrior with measurables like Mathews last year?

Sapp is the only OLB/DE type in this draft that BB has film on showing a DE/OLB type playing with his hand off the ground and playing in coverage and rushing the passer. If BB thinks that Sapp is powerful enough to set the edge against the run, then I can see BB taking Sapp.

When I line them up side by side I get the following:

Best pass rusher - Kindle
Best run stopper - Graham
Best in coverage - Sapp (by default)
Best intangibles - Hughes

 

[patchick]

I keep going back to the fact that over the years BB has passed on literally scores of OLB/DE types because of one minor wart here or there. How can he justify taking a Hughes or Graham after passing on a warrior with measurables like Mathews last year?

Well, he could always point out that the "warrior" had only 5 total sacks in his college career. (Hughes and Graham rang up 28 each.)

But I'm totally with you on the broader point. I don't think we have any clue what Bill Belichick is looking for in an OLB/DE. He has so consistently passed on EVERYBODY that we're flying blind.

 

[Marqui]

Well, he could always point out that the "warrior" had only 5 total sacks in his college career. (Hughes and Graham rang up 28 each.)

But I'm totally with you on the broader point. I don't think we have any clue what Bill Belichick is looking for in an OLB/DE. He has so consistently passed on EVERYBODY that we're flying blind.

Actually he clearly stated multiple times exactly what he's looking for in a DE/OLB. It's just that there's pretty much only one of them per draft and their always top 15 picks (out of the Pats range). Belichick wouldn't have passed on Orakpo and he wouldn't pass on Derrick Morgan if he magically fell to 22.

 

[MaineMan]

I keep going back to the fact that over the years BB has passed on literally scores of OLB/DE types because of one minor wart here or there. How can he justify taking a Hughes or Graham after passing on a warrior with measurables like Mathews last year?

Sapp is the only OLB/DE type in this draft that BB has film on showing a DE/OLB type playing with his hand off the ground and playing in coverage and rushing the passer. If BB thinks that Sapp is powerful enough to set the edge against the run, then I can see BB taking Sapp.

When I line them up side by side I get the following:

Best pass rusher - Kindle
Best run stopper - Graham
Best in coverage - Sapp (by default)
Best intangibles - Hughes

There's the thing - Best run stopper. He's also an accomplished pass rusher - doesn't need to try to run wide around the tackle to get to the QB. No, he's probably not great in coverage. OTOH, how often did TBC drop back into coverage? How'd he do? Did it matter?

 

[Nonentity]

I keep going back to the fact that over the years BB has passed on literally scores of OLB/DE types because of one minor wart here or there. How can he justify taking a Hughes or Graham after passing on a warrior with measurables like Mathews last year?

I think he might be slowly relaxing that prototype though. Certainly he's said that finding players to fit the prototype is getting harder and harder. Given the production of Dumervil and Woodley, perhaps Bill might give in and take a non-prototype players and see how it works out.


Or, maybe not.

 

[Nonentity]

There's the thing - Best run stopper. He's also an accomplished pass rusher - doesn't need to try to run wide around the tackle to get to the QB. No, he's probably not great in coverage. OTOH, how often did TBC drop back into coverage? How'd he do? Did it matter?

And if we start next season with TBC at one spot and Graham at the other, which one do you want to see dropping into coverage?

 

[dryheat44]

I think he might be slowly relaxing that prototype though. Certainly he's said that finding players to fit the prototype is getting harder and harder. Given the production of Dumervil and Woodley, perhaps Bill might give in and take a non-prototype players and see how it works out.

I agree.

Desperate times, and all that...

 

[cstjohn17]

I tried to limit it to what I see as the weak side guys or the more pure pass rush types as opposed to guys like Griffen, Dunlap, etc, who are more like strong side guys.

I'm with you, though, in that I'd love to get Griffen (1), Sapp (2), Edds (4) which would just end this LB travesty once and for all and we could still get a WR and something else in the second round.

I am looking more at the strong side guys as well, the cupboard is totally bare of players to play the Vrabel / McGinest role. TBC is the smaller Rosie Colvin type, he is not great but is at least average. Either Griffen or Dunlap could get significant reps in year one at SOLB, a WOLB would be further down the depth chart and there is more players in the 6'3, 250 range available later in the draft.

I would be ok with Griffen at 22 and then if they double dip at OLB a player like Sapp would likely be available

From Reiss
Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

“He’s 6-foot-3, 273 pounds and his strength is getting after the quarterback. He’s an excellent power-to-speed rusher, which means he uses his explosive first step to get under the pads of offensive tackles and knock them off balance. Once he 's free of the block, he closes very quickly. "

 

[Marqui]

I think he might be slowly relaxing that prototype though.

There's nothing really to relax though. To successfully run a 2 gap 3-4, OLBs have to be strong enough to stand up blockers and tall enough to see over them/read the play. I don't think he'll drop the prototype as long as he keeps using the 2 gap 3-4.

 

[patchick]

Actually he clearly stated multiple times exactly what he's looking for in a DE/OLB. It's just that there's pretty much only one of them per draft and their always top 15 picks (out of the Pats range). Belichick wouldn't have passed on Orakpo and he wouldn't pass on Derrick Morgan if he magically fell to 22.

Except he also drafted Shawn Crable, Jeremy Mincey and Justin Rogers, none of whom resemble Morgan and Orakpo...or one another.

It just doesn't seem very meaningful to define your "type" in a way that only ever applies to the #1 DE in the draft, taken in the top 10. The very best is EVERYBODY'S type.

 

[patchick]

There's nothing really to relax though. To successfully run a 2 gap 3-4, OLBs have to be strong enough to stand up blockers and tall enough to see over them/read the play. I don't think he'll drop the prototype as long as he keeps using the 2 gap 3-4.

Yet...last year's starters were both 6'2".