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So like...when did the Giant's defense become the 85' Bears?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by PushnPencils, Feb 2, 2012.

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  1. PushnPencils

    PushnPencils Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    I have respect for what NY has in D-lineman...and they've had a nice playoff run. I was in awe of the pressure they were able to bring in 2007.

    But this has gotten ridiculous.

    It's very simple. If the Giants are able to bring pressure on Brady it's going to be a tight game similar to 07'.

    If they can't, well it's going to be a long day for them. Their D, unlike the Ravens' that has some smart, instinctive guys like Lewis and Reed, depends on pure athleticism from all those DE's.

    They are one trick ponies. Granted, they excel hugely in that one trick.


    I like our O-lines chances against them this year...
     
  2. Dr Pain

    Dr Pain Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    They are the 25th ranked scoring D giving up over 25 points a game. Scarey stuff
     
  3. Ron Sellers

    Ron Sellers 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    They held that incredibly awesome Alex Smith and the 49ers offense to 17 points (thanks in part to two fewer possessions because Harbaugh didn't have a genuine punt returner); therefore they are the best defense in the history of the NFL.

    If you don't believe me, just read those incredibly intellectual, objective and unbiased writers at the NY Post, NY Daily News, and BSPN NY; they all said it was a fact so it must be true.



    :rolleyes:
     
  4. Dr Pain

    Dr Pain Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Yea but that monsoon really favored the 49ers offense so it is even more impressive
     
  5. PatsGirl2011

    PatsGirl2011 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Colin cowherd had a segment on the Giants defense and how people are overrating their performance the past few games . He said outside of the front 4 they are pretty average. He compared this game to USC vs Texas when no one was giving Texas a chance and people were talking about how USC had the best D. In addition, he mentioned the Pats had over 400 yards of offense with 4 turnovers and yet still was winning near the end of the game. I think he even opened his eyes a little too.

    If you look at it, they really only had one game in which they were really dominant and that is the Atlanta game. Even so, I thought Atlanta was overrated anyways. Green Bay was moving the ball on them and the Packers dropped a lot of passes and missed TD's. I remember the game thread where I said the Giants would need a TO to win the game because that was only way they could pull the game out.
     
  6. BaltimorePatsFan

    BaltimorePatsFan Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Aaron Rodgers had one of the best seasons ever by a QB and the Giants D absolutely humiliated him and the Packers O in Lambeau.

    'Nuff said.
     
  7. PatriotSeven

    PatriotSeven In the Starting Line-Up

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    Well i tried to explain it in full detail here but I think I did too good a job disguising my sarcasm since it appeared no one caught on and the only response actually believed it, despite "the gay sex" references.

    So let me try to summarize it in a shorter, more obvious way:

    You see, in 2007 the Giants defense stopped the "greatest offense in NFL history" which can obviously only mean that they had "the greatest defense in NFL history". I mean how else do you stop "the greatest offense in NFL history" if you don't have the "greatest defense in NFL history". It can't be done, right?

    So if this year's defense is even better than their 2007 defense, it has to be better than any defense that has ever existed in the history of the NFL and in the future of the NFL. Of course that is only until the Giants end up in the Super Bowl again one day. Then that defense is obviously going to be the new greatest defense in the NFL.

    DUH!!!

    .
    .
    .
    .
    .

    Or it could simply mean the 2007 Pats offense and GB's offense sucked when they played the Giants but that doesn't sound nearly as "great" and the reality version of the story doesn't make for good TV ratings on ESPN.
     
  8. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    While I agree with you to some extent, in the aspect of them getting healthy and gelling well towards the end of the season; I also feel that we just had a pretty nice tune-up with the Ravens last week as well.

    So, yes--I do think they are a tough a formidable defense, but no--I don't think they are quite the Baltimore Ravens either.

    The bottom line is that we'll have to play better than we did against BAL to win, at least as a whole team. But I do see the offense being able to look at the Baltimore game and fix some of the challenges and mistakes that we made vs them, in preparation for the NYG.

    So in some aspects they probably are overrated. At the very least I don't think they deserve the hype they are getting.
     
  9. ExpatPack

    ExpatPack Practice Squad Player

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    With a tremendous amount of help from the Packers offense that couldn't hold on to the ball to save their lives.
     
  10. randomk1

    randomk1 In the Starting Line-Up

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    #12 Jersey

    Nevermind the 85 bears D....it's the legendary offense that has me pissing all over myself. Montana at QB to Rice,Moss,TO,Winslow Sr with Barry Sanders and Jim Brown back there. My god...
     
  11. randomk1

    randomk1 In the Starting Line-Up

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    #12 Jersey

    Nevermind the 85 bears D....it's the legendary offense that has me pissing all over myself. Montana at QB to Rice,Moss,TO,Winslow Sr with Barry Sanders and Jim Brown back there. My god...
     
  12. PatriotSeven

    PatriotSeven In the Starting Line-Up

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    Here's how it all works....

    1.If an average defense faces an average offense, who executes like an average offense, what will the results be? An average amount of points allowed, and an average defense, right? Of course. Everyone is ok here.

    2.If an average defense faces an elite offense, who executes like an elite offense, what will the results be? A high number in points allowed, and a terrible defense, right? Yes, you can nod safely. Offenses who execute at an elite level make average defenses look terrible.

    3.If an average defense faces a terrible offense, who executes like a terrible offense, what will the results be? A low number in points allowed, and a great defense, right? Right, you can nod safely. Offenses who execute terribly make average defenses look great.

    But in reality, in all 3 examples they are all average defenses who execute like an average defense. It's the opponent's offense that changes their perception and their stats.

    4.But what happens when an average defense faces an elite offense who executes terrible? What do you have then?

    The New York Giants defense = "The Greatest defense in the NFL".

    Most people get #1. But only about 1% make it to #4. That one causes nationwide logic breakdown and exploding heads. That's the one that makes Vegas and Birdman rich. They get it. 99% of the people don't.:D
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2012
  13. ExpatPack

    ExpatPack Practice Squad Player

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    Quit using your head you're making too much sense.

    Anyone who analyses the Giant-Packer playoff game will see that the Giants defense did not dominate the Packers. That's not to say that they didn't play well, but the Packers shot themselves in the foot so many times in that game it was shocking.

    I'd put odds that any team in that was still in the playoffs would have beaten Green Bay that day, that's how badly they played. NO, SF, NY, NE, Balt. . .they would have all beaten the Packers.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2012
  14. ivanvamp

    ivanvamp In the Starting Line-Up

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    Kind of, sort of. They allowed 388 yards of total offense. The Packers had 4 turnovers and *8* dropped passes. On the day, there were 3 fumbles, and the Giants recovered all three (which defies the odds somewhat).

    The Giants played great and absolutely, positively deserved to win that game...they were the better team. But the Packers were uncharacteristically bad and unfortunate that day (the Hail Mary at the end of the half...are you kidding me?). Some of that was due to terrific Giants' play, but some of it was due to simple Packer mistakes.

    So while the Giants clearly beat up Green Bay in that game, I wouldn't say their defense "humiliated" the Packers' offense.

    I will say this, however. If the Pats have 8 dropped passes, 4 turnovers, and give up a Hail Mary at any point in the game, they're pretty certain to lose on Sunday.
     
  15. Gumby

    Gumby 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    #11 Jersey

    agree there is a lot of giants dl ball washing.

    but some of you are quick to dismiss these turnover ratios as just giants luck. SOMETIMES (lets quickly exclude the 49ers game as most TOs /potential TOs were on STs) these TOs are being generated by that Defense and that makes those yardage totals irrelevant.

    Team B starts on own 20:
    Drives 70 yards and coughs up ball OR
    Drives 50 yards and kicks FG.

    If you are going to take the TO off the table; D2 looks better - less yards. But D1 takes points off the board; even after giving up 20 more yards. And even if their O doesn't score; they make the other O have to re-cover another 40-70 yards just to get back those same 3 pts.

    so; agree they don't pass the eyeball test as some insurmountable object; but lets just admit THEIR D-LINE is peaking for the playoffs/SB in health and capability. The same as our Secondary is peaking in stability/experience/health for the playoffs and SB.

    The question is which peaking unit is going to show more of an impact on the other team. With the health of our O-Line I think our DBs will have a greater impact on their WR than their DL has on our OL.
     
  16. PatriotSeven

    PatriotSeven In the Starting Line-Up

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    Exactly. The ST Louis Rams and Indianapolis Colts would have beaten GB if GB played them that bad. How else would the Rams blow out the Saints? I don't care if you are the "greatest offense in the NFL". If you decide to play like "worst offense in the NFL" next Sunday, not only are you going to get pummeled by just about any team in the NFL, but you're also going to end up giving them a bunch of undeserved credit and improve their perception 10 fold.

    Which is why I blame/credit GB for the Giant's "defensive improvement" and I blame the 2007 Patriots offense for the old Giants defensive showdown. They both created retarded myths of unrealistic improvement during the worst possible period of the year when a team can actually focus, practice and improve.

    And I blame the 2 weeks layoff and media-frenzy that the NFL puts players and teams through for all of the above. The underdog who gets left alone gets some serious competitive advantage leading up to the Super Bowl. The team who's in the news 24/7, doing interviews, pictures, and all these other extracurricular activities, gets royally screwed over in physical and mental preparation.

    And it has nothing to do with handling the "pressure". It has to do with handling the media, the extreme drain on energy and the frustration that comes from it all. Thankfully Eli got a bigger taste of it this year, and you could tell all the stupid questions were getting to him too so it should even it out.

    For the record, in the first Super Bowl, Tom Brady was so freaking relaxed he fell asleep in the locker room before the Super Bowl. I can only imagine what it must have been like for both him and Moss in 2007.

    Anyone notice Brady's eyes on tuesday?
    [​IMG]
    Looked like he was in a bar fight. These guys get no freaking rest.

    [​IMG]
    "God...please make that clock tick..how much longer? I'd rather be knocked out by Tuck then stay here another minute. Wonder if my dentist could have gotten me in for a root canal....scratch that, they'd have wanted to televise that too..."


    What he looked like 2 weeks ago against Baltimore:
    [​IMG]
    "Wait, I just realized if we win this, I gotta go through media week again. Motherfu...."

    Yeah...the NFL takes its toll alright, but I think it's off the field crap that's harder to deal with. He looks like he aged 5 years in two weeks. If the guy from the podium shows up Sunday, we're royally screwed....


    .... unless this Manning also shows up:
    [​IMG].
    "What the hell is wrong with these people? I didn't sign up for this. Now I understand Brady's fake smile and its so much better than mine. This is the best I can do. Oh no, the idiot with the wig is really going to ask me a question...probably about Peyton."

    Not so great being the elite star, is it Eli? But I don't trust baby boy. His momma and brother's going to be there with a pillow, cookies and milk for him. Someone make sure Brady takes a nap Sunday morning just for good measures. Or have Gronk give Brady whatever the hell he's taking. I'm serious! This entire offense depends on Brady being sharp mentally and able to make quick decisions. Neither of these guys look ready to run a McDonald's drive-through, nevermind an NFL offense. Defenses are going to have a field day if they show up like this.

    I can't believe people actually think these teams are "improving" with all this. If you didn't get any better by this week, you're not getting any better before Sunday. You just better pray you can get back to the same level you played at 3 weeks ago.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2012
  17. Uncle Rico

    Uncle Rico Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    No Jersey Selected

    I mentioned this in another thread but (maybe) worth repeating:

    I was watching NFLN the other day and they were doing the same old bit about the Pats. They even showed a graphic listing the "worst" defenses (by yards per game) ever to reach a Super Bowl and, sure enough, there are the 2011 Patriots at the top of the list.

    Second on the list?

    The 2011 New York Giants.

    Not that any of the talking heads would point that out.

    I do give the Giants credit for being better than that stat because I understand the role injuries have played. And I guess that's easy for most people to process. At the same time, Pats fans know how the yardage piled up on this defense: Early in the season, it was garbage time (Jason Campbell anyone?) Later, there were a lot of early yards as mad scientist Bill had his laboratory in full operation (and was missing some key pieces). Maybe that's just an optimistic homer fan view; we'll see.
     
  18. seven

    seven On the Game Day Roster

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    LT is not walking through that door.
     
  19. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #91 Jersey

    I forget who it was, but one of the Giants' players was harping on about how much pressure they put on Brady the first game and how affected by it he was. I just wanted to grab that turd by the stack and swivel and get up into his face and say, "Dude, he put up 342 passing yards against you. Are you saying if you hadn't "affected" him it would have been 600?" :rolleyes:

    Why are the mediots ignoring that despite not having his best game, Brady scorched the Giants secondary for 342 yds. You may have noticed that I just repeated that passing number. I do it because it just seems to be continually ignored. Meanwhile Eli gets kudos for throwing for 250, most of which came on the last 2 drives, against a secondary that had lost 2 players during the game and Iheadibu who had to leave the game on 2 occasions and probably shouldn't have been playing.

    The devil is in the details. I'm just wondering how all the mediots are going to spin this when the Pats win. The one thing I'm sure of, the spin will include very FEW mea culpas
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2012
  20. patsfaninpittsburgh

    patsfaninpittsburgh Banned

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    How did the Giants become the 85 Bears?

    Look at this post. That's how. There are people actually dumb to believe it.

    The Packers were horrific with horrid drops/overthrows, and turnovers that occurred without Giants defenders in the same timezone.

    Yet there are actually people who think it's the Giants D that "humiliated" them.

    When you have these types that will believe roosters make the sun come up; you can always have every stupid concept presented and actually believed.
     
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