Serious offers for Cassel yet? [mergedx2]

[Box_O_Rocks]

Re: How many #1 picks for Cassel?

Miguel has clarified the point I saw in Urgent's post: the Franchise Tag as a Patriots' strategy would be very high risk. If Cassel's agent has any sense whatsoever, he'd have Matt sign the Franchise Tag and guarantee himself $14 million, while putting the Pats in a financial pinch.

The simplest, and most honorable, way to handle this is coach Matt through a successful season and allow him to enter Free Agency. The Pats get four seasons of league minimum value from Matt, and Matt gets a chance to cash in and start elsewhere. Win/Win.

The Patriots true focus needs to be Tommy's rehab and return to form, that may make it advisable to try and re-sign Matt to starter's money in case he's needed for 2009. I don't expect that to be the case, O'Connell will have a year in the system by then and Gutierrez will hopefully be over his sophomore jinx and ready to rock and roll. A rehabbing Tommy Brady may allow the reserve QBs more preseason reps to prepare them the way Cassel was prepared this preseason.

If the Pats find a lower cost way to retain rights to Cassel for trading purposes, well and good. As long as they aren't as greedy as some of we fans are, things will work out okay.

 

[borg]

Re: How many #1 picks for Cassel?

Believe me, both Cassel's agent and BB/Pioli will know well before the signing period if Cassel is worthy of being exchanged for draft picks. Think of it this way, if Cassel performs just average when compared to other starters....

2007 QB Stats (rankings 15-17 out of top 32)

Passer Rating 82
Ave ypp 7.0
PCT 62%
TD 15
INTs 12
yds 210

These stats are completely mediocre, yet there are 16 starting QBs with worse stats. If Cassel stays within himself, wins more games than not, IMO, he has a great chance to be in play in 2009. Above average stats and teams will certainly be willing to sacrifice a solid draft pick (guaranteeing a roster spot vs free agent competition) to obtain a seasoned player verses a high pick/high cash unproven rookie. I hope the guy lights it up ...to ensure a successful season and a prosperous future for the Patriots

 

[borg]

Re: How many #1 picks for Cassel?

Not if the Pats do sign and trade. The acquiring team can then sign Cassel to a new deal the day of the trade. From the CBA:
"A Club is not required to have Room to execute a Player Contract with a player to whom the Club has
exclusive negotiating rights if the player is assigned to another Club via a trade on the same business day as the
execution of the contract, and the assignee Club has or makes Room for such Player Contract"

Does the "same day" rule apply to bonuses? If not, then this won't work.

 

[borg]

Re: How many #1 picks for Cassel?

1.) Once a team applies the franchise tag, the amount of the tag counts against the cap immediately. Please note that the deadline to apply the franchise tag is usually a couple days before free agency begins.
2.) As it stands right now, the 2009 franchise tag number for QBs will be $14,143,000


Peyton Manning Indianapolis $18,700,000
Tom Brady New England $14,620,000
Carson Palmer Cincinnati $13,980,000
Brett Favre NY Jets $12,000,000
Eli Manning NY Giants $11,416,666

Miguel...Is there still the nonexclusive franchise tag?
"A "non-exclusive" franchise player must be offered a one-year contract for an amount equal to or greater than the average of the top five salaries at the player's position in the previous year, or 120 percent of the player's previous year's salary, whichever is greater. A non-exclusive franchise player may negotiate with other NFL teams, but if he signs an offer sheet from another team, the original team has a right to match the terms of that offer, or if it does not match the offer and thus loses the player, to receive two first-round draft picks as compensation"
If so then the number comes way down ($10.7 mill in 2008...according to Wikpedia...I know, a terrible source, but why have stats if you can't massage them)

 

[Miguel]

Re: How many #1 picks for Cassel?

Does the "same day" rule apply to bonuses? If not, then this won't work.

Several franchise players have been signed by their original team, traded to another team, and the new team signed the player to a new contract.

 

[Miguel]

Re: How many #1 picks for Cassel?

Miguel...Is there still the nonexclusive franchise tag?

Yes.

"A "non-exclusive" franchise player must be offered a one-year contract for an amount equal to or greater than the average of the top five salaries at the player's position in the previous year, or 120 percent of the player's previous year's salary, whichever is greater. A non-exclusive franchise player may negotiate with other NFL teams, but if he signs an offer sheet from another team, the original team has a right to match the terms of that offer, or if it does not match the offer and thus loses the player, to receive two first-round draft picks as compensation"
If so then the number comes way down ($10.7 mill in 2008...according to Wikpedia...I know, a terrible source, but why have stats if you can't massage them)

The $14.1 million is my estimate for the 2009 franchise number for quarterbacks based on their 2008 cap numbers.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Re: Serious offers for Cassell yet?

No trade before the off-season. And I'm stunned at the Drew Bledsoe doom & gloom fans predicting the Pats' demise if Brady misses significant time. Heil Borges.

Yes ... the no trade is looking quite intelligent right now.

Box has always been a few steps ahead of the doom & gloom crowd.

 

[alamo]

Re: Serious offers for Cassell yet?

Yes ... the no trade is looking quite intelligent right now.

You might as well congratulate the Pats for not trading Heath Evans. In other words, there has never been any hint that an actual NFL team wanted Cassel, no matter what posters here thought at the time.

Bad reason to bump this thread.

 

[Maineiacs]

Re: Serious offers for Cassell yet?

Can everyone get off BB and Cassell's nuts. I mean come on, asking a questions about when are the pats gonna start getting offers for Cassell, and after just 2 games. Thats just stupid. I have seem some pretty stupid posts on this site and this is just another one added. Sit down and think about what you really are asking. I guess since Cassell is a patriot and BB is the coach, the whole damn NFL is gonna want our QB because BB found him and he is going to turn out just like Brady huh? Can we just ban people for asking stupid questions? I am just sick of hearing about the Brady injury and that now the NFL is going to lose so much money because of him and that teams now are going to give the pats like 2 first round draft picks for Cassell because he is soo proven in the NFL that they just have to get him and hopefully, just hopefully Cassell will tell them all the secrets of the Patriots.

 

[Maineiacs]

Re: Serious offers for Cassell yet?

One more thing, "Cassell showed really great stuff in the preseason" What preseason were you looking at? Are you sure you saw Cassell? Last time i saw, it looked like he was almost on the verge of joining CJ in the unemployment office

 

[tuckeverlasting]

Re: Serious offers for Cassell yet?

One more thing, "Cassell showed really great stuff in the preseason" What preseason were you looking at? Are you sure you saw Cassell? Last time i saw, it looked like he was almost on the verge of joining CJ in the unemployment office

hey, nummy, try looking at the date on those posts.

 

[Patjew]

Re: Serious offers for Cassell yet?

One more thing, "Cassell showed really great stuff in the preseason" What preseason were you looking at? Are you sure you saw Cassell? Last time i saw, it looked like he was almost on the verge of joining CJ in the unemployment office

One MORE thing: it's 2008 now.

 

[Miguel]

Re: How many #1 picks for Cassel?

My guess is that if we are 6-2 by mid-season, and Cassel shows himself to be an above average QB, the Pats will sign him to a 2-year deal with middle of the road starter money, say 2 years, $10-12 mil, at least $6-7 mil guaranteed.

As it stands right now, Cassel will be an UFA after this season and 2010 will be uncapped which means that if he agrees to your deal he will be an RFA after the 2009 season. In 2010 it will take 6 accrued seasons, not 4, to be an UFA.

I just can not see Cassel agreeing to a deal that may make him an RFA in 2010 when he is weeks away from being an UFA in 2009.

I just can not see Cassel if he "shows himself to be an above average QB" agreeing to "middle of the road starter money" when he would be weeks away from getting above average money. When was the last time an above average QB hit free agency?? I can not recall any recent instance. Cassell if "shows himself to be an above average QB" is looking at a deal greater than Nate Clements', Asante's and Adalius Thomas.

Under your offer he has to wait until the end of the 2009 season to get $12 million. By not accepting your offer he gets at least $14 million, probably more, in March, 2008 and probably close to $20 million by the end of the 2009 season.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Re: Serious offers for Cassell yet?

I hardly think we're about to trade our starting QB - especially when the backup is a just-drafted rookie.

 

[NYCPatsFan]

Re: Serious offers for Cassell yet?

I hardly think we're about to trade our starting QB - especially when the backup is a just-drafted rookie.

Looks like you are reacting after reading the title and first post that was opened in 2006.

And, right after Patjew hinted that this is 2008.

TruthSeeker must take stronger steps to seek the truth...

Initially, I was mildly irritated when FBN raked up this old thread. Don't know whether he really fell for it or was cleverly waking us up. But reading these responses (and many more to come I presume), I think it should be a great way to spend the morning before the games.

Maybe I shouldn't have pointed this out for fear for stopping the rants...But lets see how many really READ the posts.

 

[BelichickFan]

Re: Serious offers for Cassell yet?

Is there any way to auto lock all threads 6 months old or older ? This bumping is making the board unreadable.

 

[NYCPatsFan]

Re: Serious offers for Cassell yet?

Is there any way to auto lock all threads 6 months old or older ? This bumping is making the board unreadable.

Are you kidding me??? Read the posts on page 5. They are quite funny!!

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Serious offers for Cassell yet?

Yes ... the no trade is looking quite intelligent right now.

Box has always been a few steps ahead of the doom & gloom crowd.

I think this thread has bumping value ONLY because it is the root of several of mcbee's ensuing first round/Matt Cassel threads started over the last 2 years to remind some of us how foolish we were (in his <sarcasm driven> opinion) to think Matt had any value...


Some of us always realized that the best way to gauge Matt's value was his continued presence on a BB roster and the FACT that no other backup had replaced/passed him in the QB pecking order despite his once throwing a pick to Jason Taylor and not moving an offense that wasn't executing well across the board in the 2008 preseason.

And some of us also always realized that filling a roster spot to Bill's satisfaction represents value every bit as significant as adding draft picks. If Cassel continues to perform well as this season unfolds he will certainly prove to be worth a third or second or first or package of draft picks some of us had the audacity (in mcbee's widely spreading opinion) to ever remotely speculate on . The only question then will be whether the team chooses to avail itself of that added value or is simply satisfied with having realized the value of having a viable replacement for Brady on the roster when the unthinkable ultimately happened therby saving themselves from facing trading for one, paying for one or facing the oft predicted losing/out of contention season absent our HOF'er.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: How many #1 picks for Cassel?

As it stands right now, Cassel will be an UFA after this season and 2010 will be uncapped which means that if he agrees to your deal he will be an RFA after the 2009 season. In 2010 it will take 6 accrued seasons, not 4, to be an UFA.

I just can not see Cassel agreeing to a deal that may make him an RFA in 2010 when he is weeks away from being an UFA in 2009.

I just can not see Cassel if he "shows himself to be an above average QB" agreeing to "middle of the road starter money" when he would be weeks away from getting above average money. When was the last time an above average QB hit free agency?? I can not recall any recent instance. Cassell if "shows himself to be an above average QB" is looking at a deal greater than Nate Clements', Asante's and Adalius Thomas.

Under your offer he has to wait until the end of the 2009 season to get $12 million. By not accepting your offer he gets at least $14 million, probably more, in March, 2008 and probably close to $20 million by the end of the 2009 season.

I think you meant March 2009. I agree a two year deal doesn't cut it, but a three year deal might. Again, he'd have more than 8 weeks of risk remaining and if we could fashion a 3 year extension that works for us cap wise (allowing for a post draft trade in 2009 or pre draft trade in 2010 if he's legitimately needed here for early 2009 as a starter) and guarantees him $14M from someone over the next 3 years with the implicit guarantee of more via trade to a team looking to sign him long term... I gotta think it's at least worth the effort of persuing.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Re: How many #1 picks for Cassel?

Waiting to mid-season seems pointless. I don't see BB bringing in another QB unless Cassel is injured - if he had any doubts he'd have started making moves before now to give the new guy time in the system. Frankly, if Cassel has another solid game today, offer a one year extension guaranteed in the $10 million range, with a "no Franchise Tag" clause:
- it protects Cassel "now" with no 2008 cap hit;
- it allows him to become a UFA in uncapped 2010;
- it keeps your reserve QB pool strong in case Tommy's rehab is slow;
- the Pats retain the option of trading him before the 2009 draft if Tommy's rehab is on track (freeing up that $10 million under the cap). In return for the first two items, the team gets a discount off the Tag price. Win/Win.