Secondary - Questions Answered

[JoeSixPat]

You're not even close to reality. Our running game was great because our passing game worked at key moments.... and it forced Cincy to back out of the box with linebackers. You are not even close. Belickick fan proved it with his post that our running game was very successful in the 2nd half...do you get it, the 2nd half...and thats when Brady began hitting the inside routes with the receivers....and it is what made the running game click..and it can continue that way as long as we show opponents that we can pass against them...And that is exactly what I posted before the game, not to dump the running game, but to make it work by demonstrating an ability to pass...and that is EXACTLY what they did.

You arent even close to reality, as usual.

I really didn't see the game this way - i.e. that the Running game was succesful only because the passing game was a success.

Going into the game it was clear that Cincy - without its two starting LBs - was susceptible to the run as they had been against Pittsburgh

Maroney and Dillon dominated - and it seemed to me like the run set up the pass, rather than the passing setting up the run.

Against a different opponent I'll go along with a pass happy, no huddle approach - but that was definately not the approach to use this week.

Frankly, both the OC and the DC did great jobs this week as far as I was concerned.

 

[Brownfan80]

It's already been established that your new argument is not defending your original statement, but yet you still beat on your new drum.

It's tired so I'm not going to keep this up, this'll be my last post to NEM for the time being:

After alllllll of your long silly posts defending your new point, you still have not done the two things that started all of this:

1. Stated who is the better cover DB that should be starting in place of Hobbs, since you want him gone (Scott, Poteat, Hawkins even?).

2. Admitted that your prediction of a spread pass heavy, run lite offense as the only path to victory was wrong. Which it was. All this spinning to say that the pass set up the run has nothing to do with your original prediction. You predicted a pass heavy offense was the only key to victory, and that we should absolutely not do what Pittsburgh did (run).

We passed 26 times. We ran 41 times. This is not a pass heavy ratio. This is not even a balanced ratio. This is a run heavy ratio.

Your prediction was wrong. All of this new argument has nothing, absolutely freaking nothing, to do with your original claim.

EDIT: And for all of your 'proof' of a pass-to-set-up-the-run gameplan, you fail to acknowledge that teams KNOW we are going to run this season. Look at last week. So just because we line up and pass does not mean that the pass is setting up the run that happens four plays later. The run, or threat of it, has already been established on GAME FILM.

If we come out on first or second down and pass, that does not mean we're passing to set up the run, that means we're going by the fact that the D is expecting run based on our film and also our formation (many of those passes were from our two TE or even three TE sets, run heavy sets that the D has to respect based on filmwork).

The run, as always, is keying all.

So the exact gametrack does not take into account any of those other factors. You are pulling your info out of a vaccuum. And as anyone with any degree of common sense knows: Results from a vaccuum are the ones that are not based in reality.

Also you fail to mention in your 'middle route' rantings that their LBs are young and for the most part inexperienced. It is no surprise that we would try to attack that part of the field in this game.

You take far too many of your 'proofs' from this vaccuum of 'one game = I'm right' and routinely exhibit that you have no understanding of situational football or playcalling, or how the actual process of preparation (film, tendancies) plays into the on-field performance.

For anyone to say that the run is not what defenses are keying on and expecting is to ignore not only the first three games, but the preseason games and the personnel we have to work with. Denver said it best: Shut down the run, and you shut down the Patriots offense. Obviously they were right. So obviously the passing game is not what sets up anything. If that were true then the running game would have had more success against Denver, no? The only 300+ yard passing game of the season should have opened holes for that running game, no? Reality, NEM, look at it long and hard.

Also, to your stat cherrypicking about the running game picking up after we had success in the passing game: You're ignoring that the reason why we had this success was because they were fixing on the RUNNING GAME. Then, when we actually hit on some passes (which we didn't do against Denver) the defense had to respect both the pass and the run, and hence the bigger running yardage. You notice that when the D had to worry about both phases of our game that it was the RUNNING game that exploded. Why? Because that is our true strength, and the key to our gameplans.

There are so many ways that you've been wrong in the past week that they are too many to count. Yet you still smugly sit back and pretend you have it all figured out. Jig is up, NEM.

Have fun in Lala Land!!

 

[Brownfan80]

The number of runs is not entirely the factual story. You have to take into consideration that the running game totals were increased by a large number of running plays in the final drives in which the Pats just wanted to kill clock. (in their last three posessions, the Pats ran the ball 13 times. They had already built up a lead and now they needed to run the clock)

Also, in the first half, when the offense was somewhat sluggish, a high number of running plays were called. This , also, increased the total number of times the Pats threw the ball.

When the offense finally did begin to roll, and look impressive, it was the play action passes, mostly to the middle of the field (see post above) that opened up the running game to be more effective.

Send me a postcard from blindville.

My only retort to this, and the only one that NEEDs to be made here, is that PLAYACTION IS A PASS OFF OF THE RUN! (I'd already stated in my reply before this that when the passing game had it's success, it was because the D was respecting the run, and then after they had to defend a balanced attack, that is when our offense exploded). You are disagreeing with yourself, even in your own defense. You are actually agreeing with me in this response and disagreeing with YOURSELF.

So.. I'd send you a post card, but I don't know the zipcode for Lala Land.

And still you only respond to your new argument, not the original reasons for this convo:

Who is better than Ellis, your spread pass whacky prediction was wrong.

hahaha. You crack me up.

I said I'd not respond again, but at this point it's no longer annoying, just hilarious. Classic stuff man, classic.

 

[Brownfan80]

What the hell are you talking about. What spread pass? I suggested play action and the use of the inside lanes, WHICH THEY DID, and which is what helped to produce the key victory.

The outside passes were, for the most part, failures. And, I also suggested a much more wider use of play action, WHICH THEY DID, which froze the pass rush for one split second, which is what made the entire 2nd half offense work efficiently, coupled with the running game in which both Dillon and Maroney benefited from Cincy dropping linebackers out of the box to defend against the pass.

"Someone please, correct me if Iam wrong....The Steelers did this and LOST THE GAME......

I say go all out on offense and DONT try to ram the ball at them......come out, no huddle, and pass them crazy until they back off the line and open the gaps..... we can beat this team by putting a lot of points on the board early and making them play our game, not us trying to catch up.

If we try to establish a good running game early, we will be behind by a bundle at halftime, and we can all change the channel."

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=42632

We came out, established the running game, used playaction to establish the pass AFTER THAT, and then ran our way to victory. This is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you said.

My apologies that the word 'spread' was not used, but as you can see you did NOT call for playaction or inside passing lanes until after the fact. Your initial post called for an all out passing attack. And then after that you changed your argument to that the pass set up the run. Which is also false as proved earlier in this thread.

I understand that you may have 'forgotten' that you said this, but you did. And you were wrong. If you continue to deny these things, then that will take you out of the classification as a 'spinner' and into that of a 'liar'. It's all right there in your own words.

And don't you get that the running game could only benefit from the LBs and Ss backing off if they were up there in the first place, respecting the run, opening up the passing game you're talking about? We passed off the run.

Also, who is the best coverage DB on our team?