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Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by Ochmed Jones, Dec 22, 2012.

  1. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    Two more bowl games and my 2012/3 broadcasting season is done. Busiest one ever, but well worth it.

    So depending on how they view McCourty, BB could draft a CB or Safety early, to help solidify the secondary.

    The top rated CB's,Millner of Alabama and Banks of Miss State will be off the board long before we pick.

    However at #32, there should be three real good FS prospects available, Reid of LSU, McDonald of USC and Elam of Florida.

    Depending on how BB views Wilson, could the Pats take a FS early and move McCourty back to CB?

    Also keep in mind that BB could get a FS like Jefferson of Oklahoma in the second or Lester of Alabama or Vacarro of Texas in the third.

    Because it is a deep FS draft, BB could get a better player than Wilson in a later round than he took Wilson this year.
  2. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think you stick with continuity and develop what you have:

    - Keep McCourty at FS and let him develop his instincts. He's shown an aptitude for the position, and he does better looking forward than looking back. He's a great zone CB but not exceptional as a press-man CB.
    - Keep Talib-Dennard outside and bring back Dowling, who still has potential - at either CB or FS.
    - Gregory, Arrington and Wilson are all expendable, but all decent fill in pieces.
    - I don't think you need to add a high draft pick at DB, and I think that more youth won't necessarily help. A veteran safety like Kenny Phillips would be nice, but I doubt we'll have the $$.

    A day 3 FS like Dexter McCoil works for me. If I were to go day 2, I would go for Phillip Thomas of Fresno St. The rumors I hear are that Elam is going back to Florida. Lester doesn't work for me at all.
  3. stelfans

    stelfans Rookie

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    For the most part i agree with you mayo but Dowling? hmm i dont know. Last time he was healthy he was playing inside and sterling moore was playng more tha him. We'll see but i wouldnt count on him.

    Arrington is playing ok in the slot but we need someone else for depth at CB.

    Right now, we have 4 safetys. We may let Chung go but i'm not so sure about that. Gregory is ok but he's a backup. And Wilson..well who knows about him?

    Bringin in someone wouldnt hurt, I like Boyett or MCoil later on but as mayo says he doesnt have to be a rookie.
    .
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2012
  4. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa Rookie

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    The thing I look for in a safety is one who can play the ball that isn't near him. Has the speed and hands to go get it. McCourty has made a couple of nice plays on the ball the last two weeks. Will probably get better at play recognition the longer he plays there. He's a hard-working kid. The other think is he a sure tackler. And, while not a big hitter. He is a good tackler.

    If Talib walks, then we're back at the cb trough early. It hasn't been a pleasant experience picking them either. I'd rather keep McCourty at FS even if Talib goes. I think he's a better safety than cb. We need to re-up Talib. Tired of wasting picks on guys who don't cut it.

    Is there any chance Dowling develops into a decent player? Same with Tavon Wilson. It's almost hard to believe how many 2nd round picks we spent on db's and didn't get anything out of them; Wheatley, Butler, Chung. Hopefully, Dowling and Wilson don't fall into that category.
  5. everlong

    everlong Rookie

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    I liked Lester last year and I'm not sure if it's Baron not being there or if he's regressed but honestly he's been awful. Bad angles, ole tackling effort, missed assignments.......I don't see him going in the first three rounds unless it's somebody like the Bengals going on name recognition.
  6. kurtinelson

    kurtinelson Rookie

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  7. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    FWIW, Drew Boylhart from the Huddle Report loves Taylor, at rates him as a 1st round talent at either S or CB, noting "Jamar is the type of player the Patriots might draft because of his tackling skills and football intelligence -- which explains why they continue to be one of the better teams in the league. That and Tom Brady."
  8. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    So if BB keeps McCourty at FS, then we need another CB. This is NOT the best draft for a CB.

    After Millner and Banks, there is very little that could contribute next season.

    Rhodes of FSU might be considered a late 1st round/early 2nd round talent.

    Amerson of NC State and Poyer of Oregon State have an early 2nd round grade. It is possible that BB trades back from #32, which would make them a value pick in the mid 40's.

    Just FYI, I doubt BB has the honey badger on his draft board.
  9. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm not sure why we need another CB if we re-sign Talib, Arrington and Cole. Dowling will be back. Talib-Dennard-Dowling-Arrington-Cole works for me. If we move Dowling to FS then we need another CB, but not necessarily a high draft pick.

    If Talib walks, then it's entirely different. But I still don't see a rookie being the answer.
  10. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think McCourty is staying at safety. Given the draft, I would still draft a safety to compete with Gregory and Wilson.

    Obviously, we are presuming the re-sign of Talib. Even then, we need a corner or two from free agency. Arrington could be one, or not. In any case, I agree that the draft is not the place to get a corner who will contribute in 2013.

  11. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa Rookie

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    I think I'd rather be given last rites than draft another cb early in this draft. Rounds 1-2. Have to keep Talib or fight suitable replacement thru free agency. If Belichick likes him, I could see picking Vaccaro late in the 1st. He might give you the option of moving McCourty back to cb. I'd rather not. But,it's in play. Would be nice if we get improvement from Tavon Wilson and a healthy Dowling. I know quit laughing..
  12. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I doubt Mathieu will be on the Pats' board either, and if at all, certainly not before the 7th round. There are lots of other DBs I would prefer.

    If I were looking for safety help to pair with McCourty in the draft, assuming that Matt Elam is going back to Florida, my preference would be for Fresno St. FS Phillip Thomas (day 2), Boise St. CB/FS Jamar Taylor (day 2/3) or Tulsa FS Dexter McCoil (day 3).
  13. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    I think BB drafts help for the secondary for two reasons:

    1.) Despite the trade this year and all the draft picks over the course of the last decade, the secondary is still our 2nd weakest area after a pass rush.

    2.) Not sure that BB can or wants to resign everybody he currently has back there. Dowling looks like a bust, Gregory can't cover, Chung blows a ton of assignments and Talib had off the field issues that BB needs to see if they are currently resolved.

    At the end of the day, unless a ton of Juniors enter the draft, I see BB desperately trying to move out of the 1st round and trying to secure multiple day 2 picks. And I am almost certain one of them will be in the secondary.

    I like Amerson the best, depending on how he runs, and I think he can contribute right away, but it is hard to see BB using a 1st on him.
  14. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    McCourty, Dennard, Gregory, Wilson, Dowling and Ebner are under contract. Gregory isn't ideal, but cutting him doesn't free up enough cap space to get someone better. Wilson hasn't been ideal but has shown flashes, and will hopefully improve. Ebner has athleticism, but is clearly a developmental guy.

    McCourty and Dennard are starters. Dowling has shown starting ability in flashes, but has been injured too much to be consistent. Most people have given up on him. I doubt BB has. He may end up going the Shawn Crable route, but I still think he'll have a shot to contribute.

    Talib, Arrington, Chung and Cole are FAs, and they won't all be back. Talib is obviously the priority; if BB can't resign him or decides not too, he needs to go after a FA DB as a top priority (DRC or Ben Grimes, or a safety like Ed Reed or Kenny Phillips with McCourty moving back to CB), not a rookie. I personally don't see Chung back no matter what. Cole is a valuable STer and probably won't cost much. Arrington has some value as a slot/STer, but only if they can afford him and the price is right. Cole could assume Arrington's nickel/slot role if he prices himself out of the market. Cole showed some nice flashes at times.

    I also see trading back as likely, unless a stud falls to us. There are about 6 positions I could see spending a day 2 pick on: DE, DT, DB, OL, WR, and possibly a cover LB if the right guy were available. We obviously won't have that many day 2 picks, no matter how much we maneuver.

    I like Amerson more as a big FS than as a CB, and definitely not as a 1st round pick, but I probably like Phillip Thomas more. Either would be fine with me if we had enough day 2 picks, but I still see other needs as taking priority. But a lot will depend on how the position sorts out between now and the draft.
  15. kurtinelson

    kurtinelson Rookie

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    From a salary cap perspective, resigning Talib maybe problematic. If so, a high round draft pick on a potential No. 1 CB would be necessary IMO.
  16. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My strong preference is for a veteran DB rather than a rookie. I think we've shown that too much inexperience creates problems. If that turns out to be untenable under the cap situation, we may be forced to turn to a rookie. I think that would be unfortunate, in many respects - we could use that high pick in other areas, and I have my doubts that a rookie would offer the immediate impact that we need. I think that Talib offers the best combination of short term impact and a likely discount relative to his impact, but I realize that may turn out to be wishful thinking.
  17. State

    State Rookie

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    Last week I was just thinking of this and last year's draft. The Packers are thrilled with a rookie we could have had, Casey Hayward, picked early in the third with our pick that we had traded out of.

    I think there's some second guessing going on in Patriots HQ over trading out of 62 in last yerar's draft for later picks along with Bequette from Arkansas in the fifth.

    Casey Hayward CB out of Vandy, and a real playmaker in the SEC, was there, the pick of the team that we traded with, the Packers. He has had a better rookie season than I suspected he'd have--five or six interceptions and a bunch of passes deflected. But I knew he'd be more of an impact than TW. That was a no-brainer.

    Packers rookie CB Hayward perfect fit in slot
  18. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    BB tends to use rookies conservatively except in cases of obvious talent (see: Jones, Chandler) or need (see: Gay, Randall). Heck, GRONK didn't start five games his rookie year. So it's not a given that Hayward would have seen the field much here, either.
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2012
  19. EwanSellars

    EwanSellars Rookie

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    i really think we will be drafting DT, DE/LB, CB/S, WR, OL in that orderWe need a pass rushing DT that can stop the run someone like John Jenkins then 2nd Arthur Brown/Corey Lemonier then 3rd Philip Thomas/Leon Mcfadden then 7th Wr anyone whos there that looks good not too sure on the lower WR's and Blaise Foltz for OL the guy is an animal benches 580
  20. kennyb

    kennyb Rookie

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    You've hit on one problem: talent evaluation. They simply pick players who aren't very good. For years they wouldn't draft a linebacker because none had the requisite 3-4 olb height of 6-4" 250 pounds, so they ended up with guys like AD, that retread from the steelers, a 30+ year old vrabel and no pash rush whatsoever. At leats now with the 4-3 they can actually find some bodies.

    Now they're hitting crunch time having to pay huge money to keep guys (vollmer, talib, welker) instead of having guys ready to step up.

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