Welcome to PatsFans.com

Scheme-wise, will we be any different in the postseason?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by BradyManny, Jan 2, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    9,720
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +52 / 0 / -0

    Obvious variables include: health of the players, specifically Kyle Brady, the weather & the opponent.

    But the question remains - is the notion that was floated after the Dolphins game (that the Patriots hold back scheme-wise in the end of the season when stuff is wrapped up) - going to come to fruition in the post-season.

    Will we see anything radically new, formation wise, on either side of the ball then we saw in the first 16 wins?

    I still maintain we'll see more of the 2-WR, 2-TE than of the 4-wide. I think the 4-wide spread is pretty much gone, it was effective, they know exactly what kind of defense it will draw, but in the playoffs, 3-wide, 1-TE, 1-RB will be their main offense. It's ultimately much more effective when they have the personnel for it (K Brady, Watson).
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2008
  2. Grogan's neck roll

    Grogan's neck roll Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2007
    Messages:
    454
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I said it in another thread, I do think the Pats have been "vanilla" down the stretch, and that there will be some unique and complex schemes revealed in the playoffs. People are talking about how tough the Jags are, and you have to love their running backs, but with a young QB, I'm pretty confident in BB's ability to gameplan against a strong running team.
  3. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    9,720
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +52 / 0 / -0

    Couldn't agree more....really, I don't see why the Jags are pegged as the Dark Horse to beat the Pats. BB is obsessed with stopping the run, and particularly running up the middle, power running. MJD and Taylor don't scare me as much as an LT or an Addai with that stretch play.

    I also agree about Garrard, he might not make mistakes, but he's certainly not going to hurt the Pats. The Pats bend don't break defense is made to beat teams just like the Jags - good rushing attacks with QBs that just aren't lethal enough to beat you.
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2008
  4. atomdomb

    atomdomb Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2006
    Messages:
    767
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    i wonder about the scheme on defense also. remember the colts game? adalius was in the game for a handful of plays. was BB holding him back in that game? i think both sides of the ball will be different looking in the playoffs.
  5. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    9,720
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +52 / 0 / -0

    That had as much to do with Adalius injury as anything, I think - though I agree, an added benefit is that the Colts don't know how the Pats will use him in the playoffs.
  6. tedylb

    tedylb Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2005
    Messages:
    569
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    Uneducated guess: I have a feeling Tom will spread the passing game-more to Gaffney, Stallworth and Watson, and when needed, to LM in the flat.
  7. fnordcircle

    fnordcircle ( o Y o ) PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2006
    Messages:
    3,533
    Likes Received:
    80
    Ratings:
    +218 / 6 / -13

    This is what will change. Tom will go back to more even ball distribution.
  8. Oswlek

    Oswlek Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    4,171
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0

    I have been watching LoMo closely and he is usually left open underneath. On the early 4th down conversion against the Giants, LoMo was completely uncovered at the marker but Brady went to Moss anyway. Laurence has been on the field for more and more pass plays as the season has progressed - partly to give Faulk some rest and partly due to improved blocking - and NE has to see the same thing that I am seeing. Teams just don't care about him.

    I have a feeling that Maroney will be a the recipient of more postseason passes than regular season.
  9. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2005
    Messages:
    6,708
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    #95 Jersey

    Like last season's Gaffney with 11 catches in the regular season and 21 in 3 post season games...
  10. ALP

    ALP Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2007
    Messages:
    7,403
    Likes Received:
    9
    Ratings:
    +12 / 0 / -0

    hmm, i think we will see different things...

    i think welker and randy wont be as effective, but will become incredible decoys....

    and donte, watson, gaffney and Lomo will benefit greatly...

    on defense....i dont know why, but i see the pats doing some very wierd things....good things
  11. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    22,248
    Likes Received:
    102
    Ratings:
    +345 / 15 / -10

    I dont think there is a magic bag of tricks we've been keeping secret.
    But I do think the intensity of the gameplan grows in the post season. During the season, (all MY OPINION HERE) there is a building process. We make week to week adjustments based on the opponents, but build an arsenal of schemes throughout the season.
    In the post-season, the gameplans are much more opponent specific than 'weekly variation'.
    During the regular season part of the strategy is gameplanning for that specific game, and part is improving the team for the long haul.
    When it comes to the post-season we see gameplans like the one that beat the Rams, the one that stifled Manning, the Jville and Jet first round game plans, that were tailored to those teams, and widened the gap between us and them.
    I think, offensively, rather than adjusting what we do to the opponent, we will have a brand new game plan to attack that opponent. Will it look different? Hard to say, because we have been soooo succesful (best offense in NFL history) that what we do will probably override what the opponent is most susceptible to.
    I think, defensively, we will see 3 individual game plans that do not resemble very closely any of the 16 we have used yet. My opinion of BBs game planning in the regular season is to adjust each weeks game plan to the opponent, but not varying drastically from week to week, where in the post-season, he creates an entire game plan from scratch for each opponent. In other words, we may do 75% of the same concepts and calls week to week, with 25% tailored to the opponent, but in the post-season, it is 100% opponent based.
  12. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2006
    Messages:
    7,656
    Likes Received:
    15
    Ratings:
    +31 / 0 / -13

    Good points all.

    I agree that in the playoffs we're likely to see a higher fraction of passes going to guys who're REALLY open, although some will still be thrown on the theory that Moss and even Gaffney can outjump most defenders.

    On defenses, I think if we do face JAX, we'll scheme to stop certain specific kinds of running plays. Ditto SD, plus a focus on Gates.

    Pitt and Indy we've played so many times that I'm not sure how much scheme innovation there will be. But if Harrison is still out a focus on Reggie Wayne is an obvious try on defense, along with the previously effective spying on Dallas Clark.

    The real key to beating Indy is to slice up their very fast and effective defense for a whole game, rather than just a quarter or half. I suspect that will involve a lot of scheme variation.
  13. Art_Vandelay421

    Art_Vandelay421 Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2006
    Messages:
    103
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I agree with this comment - Watson underneath is an added bonus. But, I like Maroney in the open field. Is it me or when Maroney is lined up way back in the backfield (as opposed to a normal set up) and gets to see the whole field he is much more effective.
  14. Milkman

    Milkman Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2006
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Other than the Moss to Brady game changer vs Pittsburg, I haven't seen many trick plays, reverses or screens up the middle. Don't you think we'll see a little more razzle dazzle in the playoffs from the Pats to keep the other teams honest? Mix it up a bit more.
  15. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    22,248
    Likes Received:
    102
    Ratings:
    +345 / 15 / -10

    I personally think the key against the Colt D is staying away from negative plays. They create a lot of negative plays in the running game, because when they are focussed on stopping the run, they stunt and blitz, trying to make a tackle for a loss. Without those plays, they have a very hard time stopping a drive.
    I think the WORST strategy you can have against the Colt D is to come out and pound the run. You will have many very nice runs, but your drives are short-circuited by not picking up the stunt, losing 4, and then having to throw.
    Our balance is perfect to attack that D. We can pretty much come out and throw every play until they cannot commit enough people to the run to beat blocking with scheme. We are more capable than any team in the NFL of running on passing downs, and passing on running downs.
    The best blanket statement I could make about the Colts D is that they are very good if they know what you are going to do, and very bad if they do not. Common perception is that you attack them by overpowering their small front 7. The problem with that is you have small guys trying to avoid blocks, and if one cracks through, the play is blown up. The common perception is also that their cover2 is susceptible to certain patterns, but if you are in certain passing situations, they know that is what you will do and can compensate for it.
    I expect that we will have one of our best offensive days against them if they progress to the AFCC. My reasoning for this is that they have improved over the last 13 months, not with better play from the players per se, but by adjusting their schemes to take away how teams intended to attack them, which had become somewhat obvious. IMO, offenses are looking at the current Colt D and still trying to attack them they way you would have in Nov of 2006. They have made SCHEMATIC CHANGES to not be beaten that way, and I think most teams are still looking at how small the front 7 is and how pedestrian the seconday is in coverage and ignoring what has IMO been a fantastic coaching job of scheming to take away what everyone sees as their weaknesses.
    I have always said the worst thing you can do offensively is find a weakness and attack it so often that the defense has no choice but to overcomepnsate for that weakness. (i.e. if a team has a terrible corner and you throw at him 20 times in a game, you will be throwing at him AND A SAFETY, negating the mismatch).
    I think that the Patriot coaching staff has plenty of film from the last 13 months to get inside the heads of the Indy D schemes and create a gameplan that will tear it to shreds.
  16. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    22,248
    Likes Received:
    102
    Ratings:
    +345 / 15 / -10

    Why?
    If I put my 11 toe to toe with your 11 and you can't stop me, there is no reason for trick plays. "Trick plays" are designed to exploit something a team is doing ot STOP you. If you arent being stopped, there is no need to risk trickeration.
    I'm not saying we are so good no one can stop us, just that the best offense ever will be the least likely to use many trick plays.
  17. lapatsfan

    lapatsfan Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2005
    Messages:
    246
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I am hoping Chad Jackson finally gets to see some significant playing time. I wouldn't mind seeing a 5 WR set with Moss, Stallworth, Welker, Gaffney and Jackson.
  18. theflinger

    theflinger Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2007
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    unfortunately, that's extremely unlikely, in my opinion. Jackson hasn't caught a pass yet, he presumably hasn't worked much with the offense, Brady is confident in him yet, etc...
  19. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2006
    Messages:
    7,656
    Likes Received:
    15
    Ratings:
    +31 / 0 / -13

    Why would we ever do that when we could have a somewhat inferior set with Faulk or Evans and Watson, that however is a credible threat to run if the opponents goes all-out in a pass-stopping personnel package?
  20. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    9,720
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +52 / 0 / -0

    Funny to keep in mind, but BB has referred to the play action as a "trick play". There's different levels of "trickery" I guess.

    Anyway, the underlying issue here is that b/c of the level of talent and execution, disguising the play hasn't been necessary all that often this season. On either side of the ball really, we've basically come out and just beaten teams. That's what I think the 4-wide really is about. It's like saying "hi, this is what we're doing, good luck stopping it!!"

    The 3-wide 1RB, 1TE set does involve more disguise b/c it does open up the possibility of play-action and does prevent teams from committing to either just the run or the pass. Based on Reiss work, it looks like we've run that about half the time this season, but going game-by-game, we have used it less some weeks b/c of the injuries to K Brady and Watson.

    What I'm getting at is that execution won't be enough to beat the level of teams we'll face in the playoffs, and so the 4-wide spread is probably going to be reserved for situational play only, ie, end of the halfs & god-forbid, if we're trailing by enough that we really have to hurry it up.

    And from there, I guess what I'm getting at is that Maroney and the running game will become more of a factor in the game-planning.
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2008
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>