Scheme issues underlie O-Line and pass rush criticisms

[maverick4]

The coordinators deserve a lot of the credit and blame, but ultimately everything falls on Belichick.

If coordinators receive credit and blame, then it's not all on Belichick. If it's all Belichick's fault or credit, then Josh McDaniels is nothing more than a mindless robot.


By the way, I know you can't answer my previous question but I'll repeat it since you'll never admit to it:
You are INCAPABLE of ever blaming any loss on the offense, aren't you? Name one. You can't, because based on your warped views, the defense is always at fault for losing since the other team scored more points and scored last.

 

[SVN]

I do not blame Belichick in any way, except that I wish he would fire both coordinators and get approval to actually hire quality ones who aren't low cost.

The main point is that Belichick isn't this guy pulling all the strings that everyone thinks. It's clear that he is very involved in pre-game planning, but that this team deviates during games to the same predictable plays.

If you disagree that coordinators have any impact, than why does Mcdaniels get so much credit here? If he had zero influence and was just a robot following specific orders from Belichick for every possible situation, then nobody would say he was a good coordinator.

you dont blame belichick but you think he has no authority to hire quality coordinators. Why did he bring in domcapers as secondary coach ? Your assertion that kraft is cheap and doesnt allow bb to pay for high priced coords is totally baseless just because you want to fault the young coords and dont want fault BB at all. BB has constantly said that he wants to groom from within .He has done so from the cleveland days so just because stuff isnt working now you come up with theory that highly paid OC's are needed. BB wants contininuity in the system and not bring in mike martz for 1 yr and then lose him and change the system again . Take a look at all the bad teams where QB's are changing systems every two yrs.Is that what you want ? You say BB isnt the guy pulling the strings @ the same time you say the players arent listening to him in the video to play press coverage. So players arent listening, coaches are listening to him ...is he a puppet ? I dont think so. From day 1 its his vision. he asked Jmcd to go florida to learn the spread from urban meyer. he pulled the plug on trading for moss and welker. he drafted chad jackson too. If you think he just gets young OC/DC and asks them for their vision and then coaches them then you are mistaken. What is bb role then ? just be a gm on the sidelines wearing a headset stuck with novices and happy to be here ?

 

[maverick4]

How the hell is that relevant? The problem with the bears is that Jay Cutler isn't a very good QB

That wasn't even the point of Urlacher's comments. Urlacher was noting that the emphasis on passing has hurt the team. The O-line blocking is worse, the run game is worse, all relevant parallels to our own team.

 

[Rob0729]

Not sure if your 'defend the offense at all costs' schtick rings with many people here anymore. You're so biased you'll even defend when Bill O'Brien clearly lost this team games.

The same lame game you play every time is to blame the defense since losses always involve the winning opposing team scoring the last points. You love to somehow use this to ALWAYS pin the blame on the defense, which is absurd. Under this ******ed reasoning, the offense is never at fault.

You are incapable of naming even one incident when an offense lost a game, aren't you.

LOL! You are really dillusional.

When did I defend O'Brien? I blamed O'Brien for his gameplan for the Saints game. I blame him for giving up on the run too quickly. But I don't absolve the o-line or Brady for playing poorly. I have not been happy with the inconsistency of the offense at times, but I am giving him a free pass this year because he is a rookie signal caller.

I am incapable of finding a game where the offense OR THE DEFENSE has lost a game for this team alone. I can find games where the blame pie goes more than one way or another, but there is rarely if ever a game where one side of the ball is solely to blame for the loss or credit for the wins. That is what you are incapable of comprehending. Most losses are team losses and both sides do things to contribute to the loss.

You might confuse me pointing out the defense's faults in losses when you want to blame either McDaniels or O'Brien for losses, but under no circumstances do I put all the blame. When I talk about all the points the defense gave up in the AFCCG against Indy, I acknowledge the mistakes on offense. I am just pointing out the lunacy of you blaming McDaniels for that loss when the defense gave up nearly 40 points.

 

[maverick4]

If you think he just gets young OC/DC and asks them for their vision and then coaches them then you are mistaken. What is bb role then ? just be a gm on the sidelines wearing a headset stuck with novices and happy to be here ?

I agree he develops his coaches working for him. This also means that he is letting them MAKE MISTAKES, their own mistakes.

He isn't micro-managing every single play call, or even most of the calls, when the game actually happens. There are a million other things he is looking at and thinking about while the game is happening, his coordinators are calling the plays and they aren't just following a pre-programmed set of exact plays all spelled out by Belichick.

 

[maverick4]

I am incapable of finding a game where the offense OR THE DEFENSE has lost a game for this team alone. I can find games where the blame pie goes more than one way or another, but there is rarely if ever a game where one side of the ball is solely to blame for the loss or credit for the wins. .

What a lame cop-out answer. You lie too because you have never admitted to a fault committed by the offense, it's always some excuse with you.

You have demonstrated that you will throw the defense under the bus whenever we lose. You have specifically pointed out games that the defense lost for this team.

Thanks for confirming what a ridiculous argument you have. The fault is always on the defense for you, because the last meaningful points of any Pats loss are scored by the opposing team.

You can't name a game when the offense lost the game, because you are incapable of ever blaming the offense. You never have, never will.

 

[Rob0729]

If coordinators receive credit and blame, then it's not all on Belichick. If it's all Belichick's fault or credit, then Josh McDaniels is nothing more than a mindless robot.


By the way, I know you can't answer my previous question but I'll repeat it since you'll never admit to it:
You are INCAPABLE of ever blaming any loss on the offense, aren't you? Name one. You can't, because based on your warped views, the defense is always at fault for losing since the other team scored more points and scored last.

Wow! You really need to get a clue. Anything that goes right or wrong for this team, Belichick has responsibility for. Just like any CEO/President of a company would with their organization. Belichick like any CEO/President is not responsible for micromanaging and every little detail, but he is responsible for the overall direction of the team and making sure the team is in the best position to succeed. Do I really need to give you an education on organizational management too?

As I said in my last post, I can't come up with a loss that falls solely on the offense. But that is because I understand football and can realize that it is a team sport and rarely if ever, you can blame one side of the ball solely. I mean you can look at the Jets game and see the offense couldn't score a TD and no points in the second half, but it doesn't change the fact that the defense crapped the bed on the first Jets drive of th second half. I would blame the offense more for the loss, but if the defense stood strong on that drive, it could have ended differently too.

 

[maverick4]

Wow! You really need to get a clue. Anything that goes right or wrong for this team, Belichick has responsibility for. Just like any CEO/President of a company would with their organization.

Similarly, Bob Kraft takes all blame and credit too then. From your thinking he was a mediocre owner during the Pete Carroll era.

This is such a silly deflective argument you're making here. Belichick may be responsible because he's the head coach, but it doesn't mean he caused all the play calling problems that happen on the field. Some of you make it sound like every play call is Belichick, when it's not.

 

[Rob0729]

What a lame cop-out answer. You lie too because you have never admitted to a fault committed by the offense, it's always some excuse with you.

You have demonstrated that you will throw the defense under the bus whenever we lose. You have specifically pointed out games that the defense lost for this team.

Thanks for confirming what a ridiculous argument you have. The fault is always on the defense for you, because the last meaningful points of any Pats loss are scored by the opposing team.

You can't name a game when the offense lost the game, because you are incapable of ever blaming the offense. You never have, never will.

LOL! I point out the defenses faults when you blame the OC. I don't think I have ever put the blame solely on one side of the ball. I do think the loss of a hard hitting dominant defense has been the biggest reason we haven't won a Super Bowl in years, but that doesn't mean I absolve the offense. It means defenses are more important in the playoffs and if the offense fails, you need the defense to step up. They haven't in many cases.

You see you cannot deal with anything other than black or white. If I point out defensive problems in a game, it means in your eyes that I mean it is solely on the defense. It isn't the case. I blame the defense for giving up 38 points to Indy in the AFCCG, but there were plays by the offense that if they executed them better (some of that blame is on the players and other is on the coaching) they could have overcome that hole. So it is a team loss. You see it as me blaming the defense.

 

[Rob0729]

Similarly, Bob Kraft takes all blame and credit too then. From your thinking he was a mediocre owner during the Pete Carroll era.

This is such a silly deflective argument you're making here. Belichick may be responsible because he's the head coach, but it doesn't mean he caused all the play calling problems that happen on the field. Some of you make it sound like every play call is Belichick, when it's not.

Kraft does deserve credit and blame. He is more of a hands off owner than he was pre-Belichick. I blame him a lot for the Grier/Carroll era and his decision to choose Grier over Parcells. Kraft doesn't deserve as much credit as Belichick though because Kraft pays Belichick to oversee the football operations while he tends to his other business interests. Kraft gives Belichick authority to run the football operation as he see fit and as long as the Pats are successful, he will stay hands off. If they aren't, Kraft will either step in and force Belichick to make changes or fire him. If he doesn't he deserves the blame for that.


Ok, you win. Belichick hates how O'Brien calls the game, but who is Belichick to tell O'Brien that he needs to improve his play calling and actually work with him to improve his play calling. He is only the head coach. He has no right to tell the QB's coach what to do. LOL!.

Seriously, Belichick gives his coordinators some autonomy if he feels they deserve it, but he isn't going to let his season slip away if he feels they are not doing their job correctly because he is afraid to step on their toes. There is a reason why Belichick and not Pees has been on the sideline working on the adjustments with the starting defense when they are off the field. That is not giving autonomy to Pees and taking a lot of the responsibility for the defense,

 

[maverick4]

I blame the defense for giving up 38 points to Indy in the AFCCG, but there were plays by the offense that if they executed them better (some of that blame is on the players and other is on the coaching) they could have overcome that hole. So it is a team loss. You see it as me blaming the defense.

In 4 years this is first time you have EVER even mentioned/admitted any blame upon the offense for losing that game.

Congratulations, it must have been painful for you.

You still inadvertently answered my original question, though, by basically admitting that you will never admit to a game where the offense actually cost the game (whereas you have no problem point out games lost due to the D).

That's a nice little trick you've been pulling to always throw the D under the bus, since any Patriots loss will involve the last meaningful points being scored by the opposing team.

.

 

[Rob0729]

In 4 years this is first time you have EVER even mentioned/admitted any blame upon the offense for losing that game.

Congratulations, it must have been painful for you.

You still inadvertently answered my original question, though, by basically admitting that you will never admit to a game where the offense actually cost the game (whereas you have no problem point out games lost due to the D).

That's a nice little trick you've been pulling to throw the D under the bus, since any Patriots loss will involve the last meaningful points being scored by the opposing team.

.

LOL! You are too funny. I have blamed the offense plenty over the years. I just don't blame them for being too good and for every loss like you do.

Seriously, seek psychiatric help.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

I believe that scheme and personnel is the main culprit to the Pats problems.

Although it seems this way because we're so familiar with them, but I find their offensive scheme extremely predictable and believe O'Brien has a terrible feel for the game. For example, games against the Falcons, Ravens and Colts should've been blowouts if it weren't for poor game management. The problem I have with the offense is that they throw when they should run and run when they should throw. It's seems as though the Pats are trying way too hard to out trick the opposition. Before the Saints game, the Pats would continually try to throw on 3rd and short when they had capable backs such as Taylor and Morris. In fact, it leaves you thinking, why the hell did they even sign Taylor in the first place? In addition, most of us can agree that it's extremely frustrating to see the Pats running game get into a rhythm, yet week in and week out, we see the Pats going right back into shotgun and passing way too much. Last Monday night is a perfect example. Just when Maroney was getting into a rhythm, the Pats say "thank you very much Laurence, now you can go hang out on the sidelines and watch us pass the ball." Not only did they take a chuck of clock off of their first drive, the Pats were in perfect position of dictating the tempo of that game. This has been the theme the entire season.

As far as personnel goes, I don't know what Belichick sees, but they don't have the talent up front to throw like crazy. I used to be a Kaczur defender, but I can't do that anymore. Since 2008, he's been terrible. Like Kaczur, Koppen has struggled and continues to get blown up in the backfield whether it's run or pass. Also, Neal gets injured way too much and they need to find a young replacement in the off-season.

 

[maverick4]

Mayoclinic does a phenomenal job, twice here below, showing how the shotgun kills drives and cost us games:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...y-pats-vs-no-constructive-analysis-page3.html

 

[maverick4]

From pats1 in another thread

PFW in Progress was just talking today about how Brady has trouble against teams that can generate a 4-man pass rush (Colts, Saints) and has fared better against teams that need to generate pressure through a blitz.

 

[DougFlutie]

I largely agree that the team has really good talent--but in the area of the pass rush, there's only a couple guys we can really look to, and they have to perform. In the case of Thomas, for example, it's not happening, schemes or no.

I can't remember the last time I saw Mayo blitz this season.