Schefter: Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

[Synovia]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

On the draft pick value chart (which needs to be revised, but not in a way that materially impacts this analysis), #34 is worth 560 points while #97 is worth 112 points.

It would be fair to say that a compensatory pick for a highly compensated player is worth 20% of what we got from the Chiefs.

Yes, but if we were in a situation where Cassel didn't sign the tag, the Chiefs deal never happens. That #32 is contingent upon him signing the tag.


Lets say Cassel is making some absurd demand, like he wants a 10 year extension at 15M a year, before he'll accept a trade, and nobody is biting for anything higher than a 3rd.

You rescind the tag and let them sign him for whatever market is, free up the cap space, and take the comp pick, rather than wasting time (without cap space) while he tries to work out a deal that the team and he can agree on.

 

[bucky]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

On the draft pick value chart (which needs to be revised, but not in a way that materially impacts this analysis), #34 is worth 560 points while #97 is worth 112 points.

It would be fair to say that a compensatory pick for a highly compensated player is worth 20% of what we got from the Chiefs.

Not to mention that when teams flip picks from this year's draft to next year's, they move up a round as well. So next year's 3rd round compensation pick is roughly equivalent to the 130th pick this year.

Some people like to argue technicalities. But in reality the difference in compensation is enormous.

 

[Synovia]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

Huh?!? Even if they did misjudge the trade market (a theory I don't neccessarily agree with), it wasn't like there was no market for Cassel. It just means the Pats had to settle for the 34th pick rather than a first and another pick.

Besides, again Cassel signing the tender offer had no effect because it wasn't like the Pats had to settle on compensation less than they would have gotten in a compensatory pick if they released him. If the Pats traded Cassel for a fifth rounder, then Cassel signing the tender offer forced the Pats to act quickly

You're missing my point. We're talking the hypothetical of cassel not signing the tag. If cassel doesn't sign the tag, theres a good chance that KC's offer is lower (or higher....who knows).

And if the offer is lower, like say the end of the second, or the top of the 3rd, it may be worth it for the pats to just rescind the tag, let him sign, and take the comp pick, as opposed to having to wait with their cap full until he can work out a deal.

 

[Synovia]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

Not to mention that when teams flip picks from this year's draft to next year's, they move up a round as well. .

Sometimes, sometimes not. Every trade is individual.

 

[solman]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

Not to mention that when teams flip picks from this year's draft to next year's, they move up a round as well. So next year's 3rd round compensation pick is roughly equivalent to the 130th pick this year.

Some people like to argue technicalities. But in reality the difference in compensation is enormous.

Very good point. I'd argue for an additional 35% discount to be applied to the compensatory pick.

 

[bucky]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

Sometimes, sometimes not. Every trade is individual.

You're arguing technicalities again. It's true that 1st round picks are treated a little differently. And it's also true that sometimes a team will trade a 3rd round pick for a 5th rounder and a 3rd next year (something like that).

But as a rule of thumb, this is true. The Patriots have done this at least a half dozen times over the years - 5th for a 4th, 3rd for a 2nd, etc.

 

[Garbanza]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

Adam Schefter is on WEEI. He said that when Cassel signed the franchise tender, his people didn't know that when they did that the Pats could trade away Cassel to any team without his permission. He said that when he reported that signing the franchise tag allowed the Pats to trade Cassel anywhere, Cassel's people called him and said Schefter was mistaken. Schefter had to inform them that they were wrong.

I actually think this might have been the bigger bombshell than the Peppers thing and got brushed over. Unless I heard it wrong.

I call bull. I like Schefter and think he is the most credible source out there - but what he is saying, essentially, is that Matt Cassell's agent is a dumbass. C'mon.....

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

You're missing my point. We're talking the hypothetical of cassel not signing the tag. If cassel doesn't sign the tag, theres a good chance that KC's offer is lower (or higher....who knows).

And if the offer is lower, like say the end of the second, or the top of the 3rd, it may be worth it for the pats to just rescind the tag, let him sign, and take the comp pick, as opposed to having to wait with their cap full until he can work out a deal.

I doubt the Chiefs' offer would have been lower if Cassel hadn't signed the tender. Why would it? Say it was, then how did Cassel signing the tender put the Pats in a bad position if signing the tender made the offers for Cassel better?

What it would have done was probably require the Chiefs to get a new deal done with Cassel before the trade happened because that is when he would have the most leverage with his new team. With Cassel signing the tender, there is no rush to get a deal done quickly or even at all this offseason. That may have cost Cassel millions.

 

[BradyManny]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

Adam Schefter is on WEEI. He said that when Cassel signed the franchise tender, his people didn't know that when they did that the Pats could trade away Cassel to any team without his permission. He said that when he reported that signing the franchise tag allowed the Pats to trade Cassel anywhere, Cassel's people called him and said Schefter was mistaken. Schefter had to inform them that they were wrong.

I actually think this might have been the bigger bombshell than the Peppers thing and got brushed over. Unless I heard it wrong.

I took it a different way, though I did wonder if it meant what you are saying. Personally, I thought Schefter was simply saying that people close to Cassel were unaware that he had signed the tender at that time, but I can see why you came away w the reaction above.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

I call bull. I like Schefter and think he is the most credible source out there - but what he is saying, essentially, is that Matt Cassell's agent is a dumbass. C'mon.....

A few things, Schefter mentioned it almost as it is an afterthought. It wasn't like he made it a big deal. If he was trying to sell this story as a huge thing, then I might think he was overstating things.

Also, a disclaimer from Schefter he did say one of Cassel's "people" and it may not have been Dunn (his agent) or any of his associates. Dunn may have known exactly what he was doing and might have some kind of strategic reasoning for the move whether it was smart or not. One of Cassel's people could be anyone associated with Cassel.

 

[spacecrime]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

My take: the agent and the reporter disagreed on the amount of leverage Cassel would have in controlling his destination, after signing the tender. The reporter takes the literal definition and correctly maintains that post signing, Cassel has no control. The agent, on the other hand believes that his client still has much leverage because a one and done scenario at $14+ mill is undesirable, especially with the cost of a high draft pick. If Cassel quietly makes it known he has no desire to land in certain cities, he will have used his most powerful leverage tool. Sure, the Pats could trade him anywhere, but the acquiring team must be willing to accept the player, salary, trade cost, and the altered dynamics in the lockerroom.

The agent locked in the money, prevented the Pats from rescinding the tender (which forced the Patriots to move quickly because of cap issues), and retained leverage with undesirable teams. One issue that never gets mentioned is the benefit Cassel and his new team gain by not having to trade a higher pick.

IMO, Dunn has pulled all the right strings....his client was moved quickly, at a lower trade cost than expected, to a desirable destination, with maximum salary. Will both the team and Cassel be willing to roll the dice on a one year relationship... unlikely, but I maintain that Cassel has the upperhand at the moment.

I agree with this 100%.

Cassel is still in the catbird seat.

He has $14.7 mil in the bank. Next year he can sign a long term deal with a $20 mil signing bonus.

Others hear may think he got screwed because he is a one-year wonder, but Cassel obviously has confidence in his abilities, and so does his former OC and his former (and current) personnel man known for his sharpness in evaluating talent.

All this does is give BSPN, the Herald and the ATH guys a chance to demonize BB for "screwing over" yet another faithful employee.

You've seen Cassel's KC interview. Did he look pissed? Even if he was, that is the difference between a real QB and a punk like Cutler. A real QB is a leader of men and acts like one, earning their respect. Cutler is a self-absorbed prima donna whom players cannot count on to do what is in their best interet (ie, giving them the best chance to win by not showing up at mini-camp)

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

This runs completely counter to everything (or almost everything) that the "defenders" of the trade and the trade's timing have written and said. One of the selling points for them has been that Vrabel's cap numbers came off as part of the deal.

How can it run counter to everything when the whole reason for trading Vrabel was so the Pats didn't have to pay his roster bonus? For that to happen, the trade of Vrabel had to be consummated prior to February 28th.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

Whether or not it has happened is irrelevant: the clause is there.



Trotter: Tag was rescinded, signed with washington.

You have ONE example in how many years of the Franchise tag? Stop making it sound like its a regular occurance when its not.

 

[cstjohn17]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

Adam Schefter is on WEEI. He said that when Cassel signed the franchise tender, his people didn't know that when they did that the Pats could trade away Cassel to any team without his permission. He said that when he reported that signing the franchise tag allowed the Pats to trade Cassel anywhere, Cassel's people called him and said Schefter was mistaken. Schefter had to inform them that they were wrong.

I actually think this might have been the bigger bombshell than the Peppers thing and got brushed over. Unless I heard it wrong.

I heard the interview, I think Cassel and his agent understood that by signing the contract that he could be traded without being asked. They were just surprised that they were not informed of the trade until it had actualy happend.

In the end his agent got him $14.6 M guaranteed, a starting job and a chance to hit free agency in an uncapped year. Or they could turn around and sign a long-term deal with the Chiefs. Doesn't sound that that bad of a spot to me.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

Well that is assuming that Cassel would get a deal that some are expecting. If he didn't get nearly as much as people expected, it could be less. It is still an assumption that the Pats would get a third even if my info is wrong, just a much better assumption.

Either way, cutting Cassel and getting a low third isn't enough for the Pats to resind the offer where they could have easily gotten a low 2 at worst even if this deal didn't go through.

Rob - If Cassel gets a long term deal that pays him anywhere less than 7.5 mill a year (on average), his agents need their head examined. The third round comp starts at about 6.5 million. The factors you mentioned are generally taken into consideration if the pick falls on the line between rounds.

And, while technically its an assumption, AdamJT13 is running at around 95% accuracy on his picks. I think you'll be hard pressed to get closer than that.

Also, I don't disagree with you. I think this talk of the Pats having the ability to rescind the tag is just a way for people to scratch and claw at anything to make themselves feel good about their erroneous stances.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

First day of FA was Friday. And while the Cassell trade wasn't announced until later, it's been widely reported that the trade was agreed to on Friday afternoon.

In terms of Cassell being under "misconception", what interviews are you referring to?

Thank you, BUCKY. I am not some ignorant schmuck that didn't know when free agency started. Free agency started at 12:01 AM Friday Morning. The Vrabel deal, which had to be completed on Friday to get the Pats off the hook for the Roster bonus due Vrabel on the 28th, was announced that afternoon. That Cassel was apart of the deal wasn't announced until Saturday afternoon on the 28th. So there was better than 36 hours of free agency that had occured prior to the announcement.

As for Cassel being under the misconception, it came out last week during interveiws that the Patriots had not "consulted" him about what teams he was interested in. It was on the NFLN interveiw. And it was mentioned by the Globe as well. This was talked about on this site. And it was clear from that interview that Cassel didn't understand everything that occured when he signed the franchise tender.

 

[Patsrock]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

If they had to in some way rescind the Cassel tag, they would have gotten a 3rd in Comp. Because isn't the forumla based on what was gained and lost. Well the Pats have gained a lot but not one of them was a UFA.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

I heard the interview, I think Cassel and his agent understood that by signing the contract that he could be traded without being asked. They were just surprised that they were not informed of the trade until it had actualy happend.

In the end his agent got him $14.6 M guaranteed, a starting job and a chance to hit free agency in an uncapped year. Or they could turn around and sign a long-term deal with the Chiefs. Doesn't sound that that bad of a spot to me.

Maybe I heard it wrong. I thought I heard what I heard, but I did say a disclaimer that I could have heard it wrong.

I don't think Cassel was ever in a losing situation. No matter what happened, he was a multimillionare at the end of the day. He may not maximize this value now that he was traded to the Chiefs without a new deal though.

If he does go into the season without a new deal and tanks the season, he will not get a great deal next year. If he does play great, he might be far richer than he would have been if he gets a deal done this offseason. It a gamble if he doesn't get a deal done, but the downside isn't as great as it could be with $14.6 million already earned with the franchise tender.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

I agree with this 100%.

Cassel is still in the catbird seat.

He has $14.7 mil in the bank. Next year he can sign a long term deal with a $20 mil signing bonus.

Others hear may think he got screwed because he is a one-year wonder, but Cassel obviously has confidence in his abilities, and so does his former OC and his former (and current) personnel man known for his sharpness in evaluating talent.

All this does is give BSPN, the Herald and the ATH guys a chance to demonize BB for "screwing over" yet another faithful employee.

You've seen Cassel's KC interview. Did he look pissed? Even if he was, that is the difference between a real QB and a punk like Cutler. A real QB is a leader of men and acts like one, earning their respect. Cutler is a self-absorbed prima donna whom players cannot count on to do what is in their best interet (ie, giving them the best chance to win by not showing up at mini-camp)

I agree that Cassel, whether he screwed up or not by signing the tender, is still in a great situation. He could make far more money next offseason if he does great and even if he doesn't he is still set for life.

I still think signing the franchise tender was a risk because he could have ended up with a team like the Lions where he probably wouldn't want to be and his chances of them putting him in position to succeed this year are slim hurting him getting a long term deal the following year (although assuring that the Lions wouldn't tender him which might be better for Cassel anyway in that situation.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

Yes, but if we were in a situation where Cassel didn't sign the tag, the Chiefs deal never happens. That #32 is contingent upon him signing the tag.

Synovia - All you can honestly say is that the deal with the Chiefs doesn't happen at quickly as it did if Cassel doesn't sign the tag. You can't guarantee that it wouldn't EVER get done. For all we know, the Pats could have done the deal later with Cassel agreeing to a long term extension. There are numerous possibilities.

Lets say Cassel is making some absurd demand, like he wants a 10 year extension at 15M a year, before he'll accept a trade, and nobody is biting for anything higher than a 3rd.

You rescind the tag and let them sign him for whatever market is, free up the cap space, and take the comp pick, rather than wasting time (without cap space) while he tries to work out a deal that the team and he can agree on.

Why do you bother making up far-fetched BS scenarios in some lame arse attempt to keep your point? Is that the only way you can have one?

The reality is that there was a a 12-24 hour window where the Pats could have rescinded the tag because of how quickly Cassel signed the tender.

Now, if Cassel hadn't signed the tender, then yes, there would be the slight possibility for the Pats to rescind the tag. And we could speculate on all sorts of BS reasons. But they'd still be BS... So why bother?