Schefter: Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

[maverick4]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

Did Cassel signing the tender make it harder for the Pats to get more picks?
Did it in any way affect the ability of an interested team to negotiate a long term deal or picks?

Just curious.

 

[Patsrock]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

Rescinding the tag is on par with releasing the player. When you rescind the tag you lose any right to a comp pick. Anyway, that's what I believe the rule is.

Only if you rescind the tag after July 22nd. This was discussed during the Cassel debated and is from Miguel.

 

[bucky]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

Miguel has been known to be wrong. If I am wrong on the date, I will freely admit it. However, the articles that came out on the 27th and 28th were the ones that stated that the Vrabel deal had to be done then so the Pats wouldn't be responsible for the roster bonus.

Yeah, but Miguel knows more about this kind of stuff than Reiss or most other reporters. Besides, since you've failed to provide an actual CONCRETE source for your info, I'm going to assume Miguel is 100% correct.

Who said that my opinion was fact? Not I. Nor did I pretend that it was. What you seem to not be able to tell the difference from is fact and opinion. You might want to work on that some.

When you make a categorically deterministic statement such as "I'm right", "You're wrong", "this is accurate" - which you've done a lot just on this thread alone - you are making the presumption that your argument is the definitive one. That would make sense if either (a) you provided some hard facts, or (b) you were a well known and widely accepted expert on the subject. As it happens, you do not fit into either of those 2 categories. But since you continue to post in this manner, the only logical conclusion is that you consider yourself to be an expert in all these things.

 

[Synovia]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

I love how you just make stuff up. Keep up the good job there, Synovia. It goes great with all your speculation.

Again, DaBruinz, quote me. Argue the issue, not the person.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

Adam Schefter is on WEEI. He said that when Cassel signed the franchise tender, his people didn't know that when they did that the Pats could trade away Cassel to any team without his permission. He said that when he reported that signing the franchise tag allowed the Pats to trade Cassel anywhere, Cassel's people called him and said Schefter was mistaken. Schefter had to inform them that they were wrong.

I actually think this might have been the bigger bombshell than the Peppers thing and got brushed over. Unless I heard it wrong.

This may explain why there's been no more word on a long-term contract.

Cassel did have some recourse to refuse to negotiate a long-term contract with any team that the Patriots wanted to trade him to - thereby potentially stopping, or at least lowering his trade value, in doing so.

What I and others seem to have underestimated was the fact that a guy like Pioli was willing to accept a trade for Cassel on a 1 year franchise agreement but NOT for a 1st round pick.

This may explain why the Patriots couldn't or didn't trade Cassel to teams offering a 1st round pick. Did Cassel not want to go to Detroit or Tampa? Did he make that known to the Patriots front office, note he wouldn't negotiate long term with them (as he hasn't yet with the Chiefs) thus lowering his value for draft picks in return - nixing the potential for a 1st round pick in doing so?

Of course we'll never know those details - but it sounds feasible.

So in the end, Cassel and his one year $15 million deal get dealt to the Chiefs - with Pioli willing to pay that and roll the dice to see what Cassel can do without Moss and Welker as targets... but only willing to give up a 2nd round draft choice given the Cassel's potential unwillingness to negotiate long term and/or Pioli's preference to take a wait and see approach.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

That has got to be a fireable offense.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

This may explain why the Patriots couldn't or didn't trade Cassel to teams offering a 1st round pick. Did Cassel not want to go to Detroit or Tampa? Did he make that known to the Patriots front office, note he wouldn't negotiate long term with them (as he hasn't yet with the Chiefs) thus lowering his value for draft picks in return - nixing the potential for a 1st round pick in doing so?

Cassel has said neither he nor Dunn made any such demands/requests.

 

[Pawn512]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

Teams typically only rescind the tag if the player is about to sign a long term deal before the start of free agency. This would them allow them to place the tag on another free agent.

If you have an example of a team rescinding the tag other than prior to the start of free agency, please give it.

In 2005 (?) the eagles withdrew a franchise tender on DT Corey Simon right around the start of training camp, making him a free agent. He signed a big-money deal with the Colts and subsequently bombed.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

I forgot about Simon. It is weird. There are only two franchised players who got their tender rescinded (Simon and Trotter) that I know of and both were by the Eagles. I can't think of a single other franchised player who had his tender rescinded.

What were the details, with our own Safety, Mr. Buckley Wasn't he tagged and then with drawn so that he could sign with N.O. for considerations.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

What were the details, with our own Safety, Mr. Buckley Wasn't he tagged and then with drawn so that he could sign with N.O. for considerations.

No... he was traded under the tag to NO for a package of picks and then NO signed him to their own deal. Just like all the other tag and trade deals in league history... If you withdraw the tag the player is no longer yours to trade. This considerations business is something you are inventing. Why would a player restricted by the tag agree to allow some other team to provide considerations to the team who restricted him to get his tag rescinded and then not take advantage of being a truly FREE AGENT on the open market and say screw both of you, now I'm going to the highest bidder???

This may explain why there's been no more word on a long-term contract.

Cassel did have some recourse to refuse to negotiate a long-term contract with any team that the Patriots wanted to trade him to - thereby potentially stopping, or at least lowering his trade value, in doing so.

What I and others seem to have underestimated was the fact that a guy like Pioli was willing to accept a trade for Cassel on a 1 year franchise agreement but NOT for a 1st round pick.

There were reports post trade that Pioli was the one not interested in doing a long term deal at this time and the Cassel camp was again taken aback and not entirely happy because this was not something they had anticipated (even though KC was his first preference given Pioli had gone there...). Seems KC has lots of cap but not lots of cash until the stadium renovations are completed for 2010 so they can let the cap pay this player and revisit a long term deal after they've had a chance to assess the trade...

 

[eom]

it would make sense that pioli would want to at least wait a half season before buying high on him on a long term huge money deal.
especially if they're cash poor and it would entail a fat bonus.

maybe I'm wrong on this, but if they simply let the season wind down and the tag contract expire, wouldn't cassel just be a rfa, barring any new cba?
is it possible they rented him for a one year test drive and not only recoup their pick, but upgrade it?

 

[patchick]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

There were reports post trade that Pioli was the one not interested in doing a long term deal at this time and the Cassel camp was again taken aback and not entirely happy because this was not something they had anticipated (even though KC was his first preference given Pioli had gone there...). Seems KC has lots of cap but not lots of cash until the stadium renovations are completed for 2010 so they can let the cap pay this player and revisit a long term deal after they've had a chance to assess the trade...

And there you have your answer to the oft-asked question "what possible downside was there to signing the tender immediately?" If what you want is a long-term football home with the tremendous comfort of not having to think about a new contract for years, you insist on a fully negotiated deal before signing.

Even if Dunn & co. did know the rules but simply assumed that no team would agree to a trade under the 1-year franchise contract, that was a foolish assumption and lousy representation. But...am I right in remembering that agents don't collect their usual percentage for a franchise contract, since there are no terms to negotiate? If so, Dunn will pay the price for the mistake more than his client.

 

[eom]

I don't remember if I read it on this board, but I think I just read last night that the agent only pockets 3% of the franchise contracts, for reasons that you mentioned.

 

[spacecrime]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

Seems KC has lots of cap but not lots of cash until the stadium renovations are completed for 2010 so they can let the cap pay this player...

Say what??? Let the cap pay the player?

Anyway, wouldn't a long term deal have LESS of a payout in year one than $15 million?

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

Say what??? Let the cap pay the player?

Anyway, wouldn't a long term deal have LESS of a payout in year one than $15 million?

Probably not. Cassel would probably get the same or more in real dollars if he got a new deal. He would probably get something like a $12-14 million bonus in a deal which is paid out immediately upon signing (it might be broken into two payments during the season) and a base salary of some sort. It would probably be low the first year, but Pioli tends to like making contracts that the money is spread out pretty evenly over the life of the contract (especially with the 30% rule in effect). So Cassel could get somewhere around 16-17 million in real dollars this year. Plus, the tender money is paid out over the season rather than one lump sum like a signing bonus is.

 

[Rob0729]

I don't remember if I read it on this board, but I think I just read last night that the agent only pockets 3% of the franchise contracts, for reasons that you mentioned.

The max an agent can get from a player is 3% of the player's salary no matter the reason. I remember when Master P tried to be an agent, he tried acquire clients by only taking a 2% comission. It worked out real well for Ricky Williams considering Master P got him a ridiculously below market deal with the Saints.

 

[Real World]

So Cassel's choice's are to try to sign a long term deal, or play for the $14.6 million, and get a long term deal later? What's the fuss about then? I'd guess he'd sign for something better than what Shuab got in Texas, which was 6 years & $48 million, with $7 million guaranteed, and $20 million in the first 3 years. How much better is the question. Assuming he were to receive $20-30 million in guarantees, then Cassel would have lost $5.4-15.4 million dollars, if he gets nothing in 2010. Even if he has a medicore, or crap year for KC, and is let go, I'd guess someone would offer him a couple million (Denver?) to and take a flyer. Personally, I don't see how Cassel loses leverage here. The Chiefs owe him $14.6 million at a minimum, for one years work. They aren't going to cut him, and if anything, Cassel could roll the dice, and play for the tender like Asante did.

 

[jmt57]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

But...am I right in remembering that agents don't collect their usual percentage for a franchise contract, since there are no terms to negotiate? If so, Dunn will pay the price for the mistake more than his client.

I can't imagine that being correct. Dunn was the agent, he advised his client to sign or not sign; why would he not be compensated?

To the best of my knowledge the only time an agent does not get paid is when he represents a player and gets fired before a contract is signed, or when a player already under contract hires a new agent - which explains why certain players are suddenly so eager for a new contract.

 

[Brady-To-Branch]

If Cassel is as good as I know he will be, signing the FT would be a big win for him.

A strong 2009 would net him a lucrative long term deal with a good signing bonus on top of his guaranteed 2009 $14mil salary. A win-win, IMO.

Moreover, he won't be playing against Pollard.

 

[Synovia]

it would make sense that pioli would want to at least wait a half season before buying high on him on a long term huge money deal.
especially if they're cash poor and it would entail a fat bonus.

maybe I'm wrong on this, but if they simply let the season wind down and the tag contract expire, wouldn't cassel just be a rfa, barring any new cba?
is it possible they rented him for a one year test drive and not only recoup their pick, but upgrade it?

He's an RFA who would need a 17M RFA tag.


This is a risk on both sides. If Cassel bombs out, KC can walk away. If Cassel has another great year, hes going to be much more expensive than if they'd just extended him now.