Schefter: Belichick to devote more time to offense

[Deus Irae]

Except for this inconvenient truth:

2001->2004: 3 rings with worse offensive personnel that somehow came up HUGE every time we needed a big playoff drive
2005->2008: 0 rings with better offensive talent that chokes any time we need a big score in a playoff game

Can't blame it all on the defense. The 06-08 defense has been top 10 in the league.

Possibly your most inane post ever. Congratulations!

 

[maverick4]

Blame it on the D all you want. The D gave up late scores from 01-04 in big games, and our offense still got the job done. We came through with an offense that in 01 on final drives and key moments consisted of JR Redmond and Jermaine Wiggins in the Rams and Raiders games, that for several years featured smurf receivers including castoff Patten and 7th rounder David Givens, with an O-line of a bunch of retreads.

The excuses over McKID are very similar to the late 90's Bledsoe defenders. Obsessed with the sexy yardage numbers, they blame anyone (defense, offensive talent, etc) but their God. From 06->08 the offensive personnel was better than anything we ever had from 01-04, but it consistently came up SHORT when we needed it.

 

[Rob0729]

2001->2004: 3 rings with worse offensive personnel
2005->2008: 0 rings with better offensive talent

Can't blame it all on the defense. The 06-08 defense has been top 10 in the league.

And you would rather blame it all on the offense. In particular, McDaniels. The Pats' offense was #1 in the league in 2007. The Pats defense was average at best this year with one of the worst red zone and 3rd down defense in the league. Let's go year by year shall we?

2008: Pats offense (5th in total offense, 8th in scoring offense), Defense (10th in total defense, 8th in points allow)
2007: Pats offense (first in both categories), Defense (4th in both categories)
2006: Offense (11th in total offense, 7th in points), Defense (6th in total defense, 2nd in points allowed)
2005: Offense (7th in total offense, 10th in points), Defense (26th in total defense, 17th in points allowed)

The Pats defense was clearly below average in 2005 and the Pats' offense was in the top 10 in every major category between 2005 and 2008 except one year where they were 11th in total offense. Also, do you really think Matt Cassel is better offensive talent than Brady? Or Reche Caldwell is better than Deion Branch or Troy Brown in his prime?

So, the Pats offense was in the top 10 as much as the defense during the same period. In fact, the offense was far more consistent than the defense. So by your own logic, you cannot blame it all on McDaniels.

 

[Rob0729]

Blame it on the D all you want. The D gave up late scores from 01-04 in big games, and our offense still got the job done. We came through with an offense that in 01 on final drives and key moments consisted of JR Redmond and Jermaine Wiggins in the Rams and Raiders games, that for several years featured smurf receivers including castoff Patten and 7th rounder David Givens, with an O-line of a bunch of retreads.

The excuses over McKID are very similar to the late 90's Bledsoe defenders. Obsessed with the sexy yardage numbers, they blame anyone (defense, offensive talent, etc) but their God. From 06->08 the offensive personnel was better than anything we ever had from 01-04, but it consistently came up SHORT when we needed it.

Doesn't it scare you that Belichick was apparently obsessed with sexy yards too. So, you obviously think it is time for Belichick to go because there wasn't a bigger McDaniels fan than him. belichick gave the guy complete control of the offense and many times didn't even pay attention to what McDaniels did in games while he worked with the defense. The only conclusion we can get to is that Belichick should be a Colts fan and no better than a Bledsoe apologist.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Oh boy, here we go again. BB, will you please hire an offensive coordinator? I don't want '09 to be like '05 again were BB had to take time away from defense and concentrate more on the offense. The defense clearly suffered and Dean Peas doesn’t look like he can handle this defense all by himself.

 

[maverick4]

You just showed how our defense from 06-08 has been top 10 overall and in points allowed. You can't pin it on our defense. Our 01-04 defense also gave up late scores in playoff games but our offense with even crappier talent pulled through time and time again.

Your own logic makes no sense, you can keep repeating that we had the #1 regular season offense in 2007 all you want, yet we puttered into the Superbowl and then the highest scoring regular season offense scored 14 points in the big game.

McDaniels isn't a bad OC, but he is hardly the genius you make him out to be, he has been BLESSED with ridiculous talent and draft help the moment he ever had control.

I don't think there's a coincidence that after the public shouting match this season between Belichick and McDaniels, that Cassel's performance began to skyrocket. Seeing as how Belichick already developed a 6th round QB into an all time great before McDaniels was ever involved, I'll go out on a limb and say that Cassel's turnaround was due to Belichick veto'ing whatever McDaniels was doing at the time.

 

[maverick4]

Doesn't it scare you that Belichick was apparently obsessed with sexy yards too. So, you obviously think it is time for Belichick to go because there wasn't a bigger McDaniels fan than him. belichick gave the guy complete control of the offense and many times didn't even pay attention to what McDaniels did in games while he worked with the defense. The only conclusion we can get to is that Belichick should be a Colts fan and no better than a Bledsoe apologist.

Belichick is EXTREMELY hands off with all his offensive and defensive coordinators unless they royally F up. The fact that Belichick didn't micro-manage McDaniels is simply his style, not some sort of indication that McDaniels was a unique talent at his job. Look at how long it took for Belichick to take over the 05 defense. Unfortunately for us, McDaniels has been blessed with HOF talent on offense so his flaws are not as obvious.

 

[Rob0729]

Belichick is EXTREMELY hands off with all his offensive and defensive coordinators unless they royally F up. The fact that Belichick didn't micro-manage McDaniels is simply his style, not some sort of indication that McDaniels was a unique talent at his job. Look at how long it took for Belichick to take over the 05 defense. Unfortunately for us, McDaniels has been blessed with HOF talent on offense so his flaws are not as obvious.

So are you saying that the last few years Dean Pees has royally F uped? Kinda goes against your argument for the defense not being the problem. The reason Belichick has been so hands off with McDaniels is because he has been extremely hands on with the defense working with the starting defense drawing up plays and schemes while the offense is on the field. So you have debunked your own argument.

 

[maverick4]

So are you saying that the last few years Dean Pees has royally F uped?

Belichick hasn't taken over any of the three units in recent years the way he did in 05 when he basically said 'Eric step aside, you suck at your job'. I would prefer that Dean Pees be more aggressive with blitzes and also use more disguised pre-snap linebacker formations, but seeing as how our defense has been top 10 the past 3 years, no Pees has not royally F'd up.

Anyways, I am EXTREMELY glad that McDaniels took the Broncos job, he did a good job here, but I believe our chances of a championship went up with him leaving.

 

[Rob0729]

You just showed how our defense from 06-08 has been top 10 overall and in points allowed. You can't pin it on our defense. Our 01-04 defense also gave up late scores in playoff games but our offense with even crappier talent pulled through time and time again.

Your own logic makes no sense, you can keep repeating that we had the #1 regular season offense in 2007 all you want, yet we puttered into the Superbowl and then the highest scoring regular season offense scored 14 points in the big game.

McDaniels isn't a bad OC, but he is hardly the genius you make him out to be, he has been BLESSED with ridiculous talent and draft help the moment he ever had control.

I don't think there's a coincidence that after the public shouting match this season between Belichick and McDaniels, that Cassel's performance began to skyrocket. Seeing as how Belichick already developed a 6th round QB into an all time great before McDaniels was ever involved, I'll go out on a limb and say that Cassel's turnaround was due to Belichick veto'ing whatever McDaniels was doing at the time.

You are talking about the overblown moment that no one other than McDaniels haters on this board thought was a shouting match between McDaniels and Belichick. Besides if it was a true shouting match, McDaniels was yelling at Belichick not the other way around. Also Belichick and Weis got into tiffs here and there. So did Romeo and Belichick. Belichick isn't afraid to get into anyone's face.

Also, the plan was to bring Cassel along slowly. Cassel didn't get the full playbook until Belichick and McDaniels felt he was ready. Don't change history.

 

[Rob0729]

Belichick hasn't taken over any of the three units in recent years the way he did in 05 when he basically said 'Eric step aside, you suck at your job'. I would prefer that Dean Pees be more aggressive with blitzes and also use more disguised pre-snap linebacker formations, but seeing as how our defense has been top 10 the past 3 years, no Pees has not royally F'd up.

Anyways, I am EXTREMELY glad that McDaniels took the Broncos job, he did a good job here, but I believe our chances of a championship went up with him leaving.

And unless O'Brien is another diamond in the rough like McDaniels, I think they went down. They will go down even more if they don't fix the problems with the defense especially in the red zone and on 3rd down. The last two years, the Pats haven't had a championship quality defense. Since 2004, only 2006 was championship quality and could hold a candle to 2003 or 2004 in my opinion.

But Belichick does try to fix the problems so I am not all that worried. The lack of over the middle defense cost the Pats the game in AFC Championships against the Colts. He drafted Meriweather a few months later and signed Adalius Thomas so they would have someone to cover Dallas Clark. He will try to fix the defensive problems this offseason.

Also, you are underplaying how much Belichick is involved in the defense over the offense. Belichick is responsible for working with the players on in game adjustments.

 

[maverick4]

You are talking about the overblown moment that no one other than McDaniels haters on this board thought was a shouting match between McDaniels and Belichick. Besides if it was a true shouting match, McDaniels was yelling at Belichick not the other way around. Also Belichick and Weis got into tiffs here and there. So did Romeo and Belichick. Belichick isn't afraid to get into anyone's face.

Also, the plan was to bring Cassel along slowly. Cassel didn't get the full playbook until Belichick and McDaniels felt he was ready. Don't change history.

Thanks for the correction. Belichick took the reins at some point in that game and McKID acted all hussy and started yelling into his boss's ear, even though from every game after that, Cassel blossomed and Belichick was right. So my bad, it wasn't really an argument since Belichick didn't say a word, as much as it was McKID acting in an extremely immature manner to the guy who has probably forgotten way more than McKID ever learned in the first place.

 

[Rob0729]

Thanks for the correction. Belichick took the reins at some point in that game and McKID acted all hussy and started yelling into his boss's ear, even though from every game after that, Belichick was right. So my bad, it wasn't really an argument as much as it was McKID acting in an extremely immature manner to the guy who has probably forgotten way more than McKID ever learned in the first place.

Wow! Just Wow! You McDaniels haters are amazing. Show one place where it was even rumored that Belichick took over the reigns from McDaniels.

If you are going to start this crap, I am done. Besides, this thread has been far too highjacked with McDaniels basing anyway. This was orginally a thread about Belichick taking a bigger role on offense in the future. Not whether the offense was to blame for all the team's problems between 2005 and 2008.

 

[maverick4]

And unless O'Brien is another diamond in the rough like McDaniels, I think they went down. They will go down even more if they don't fix the problems with the defense especially in the red zone and on 3rd down.

The red zone D is a major problem which will be addressed once we add another run stuffing ILB and get a solid #1 corner, both of whom might be young players already on the team.

I hardly consider McDaniels a 'diamond in the rough'. McDaniels was a hard worker who was good at finding an opponent's weaknesses before games. There are probably hundreds of people in this country who Belichick could have molded into a coordinator to put up points with Tom Brady under center.

The Patriots offense will be more than fine. I look forward to the Pats going back to being a tough hitting team that begins to hide its cards and plays once it has a lead, and cares more about deception and self-scouting than it does trying to show everyone how smart you are.