Say Hello To New Owner of Herald: Bob Kraft

[Pujo]

Lol, you guys are too much. Everyone's an armchair lawyer. There's no suit, and there won't be.

 

[Kontradiction]

Lol, you guys are too much. Everyone's an armchair lawyer. There's no suit, and there won't be.

IF U LIEK TEH HERALD SO MUCH WHY DONT U GO ROOT 4 THEM

 

[BradyManny]

Lol, you guys are too much. Everyone's an armchair lawyer. There's no suit, and there won't be.

I ultimately agree. What good does it do the Pats to keep this thing going. The Herald should deal with whoever is responsible for that article, and yes I do think that means Tomase should be relieved of his Pats-covering duties.

 

[DW Toys]

As a technical point, the term you're thinking of is actual malice; malice aforethought is involved in a slightly different crime.



Making things worse for the Herald, the article was not published on Tomasse's blog, but was front-paged on the Herald web site. I presume it was also given prominence in the Herald itself, but since I don't live in the Boston area, I don't know for sure.

Cousins,
I do not know if this has been said. Do you realize the element of intrigue with the Las Vegas "odds-makers" in all of this? Someone could try to prove that this could have driven a point spread. The timing is way too suspicious. Is Walsh "in debt", so to speak? Did some swarthy man in dark glasses and a pinky ring say: and by the way Matt "What was the story again and do you know how we can get it to the media really quick-like?"? Does anyone recall if there was a spike in the spread one way or the other at the moment of release? If the casinos, "etc." had good numbers for themselves and this came out, maybe Tomasse is having his wife start his car in the morning for the last few months? Where is Grisham or Puzo when we need them?
A law suit would be a proper response so it does not happen without recourse again for any team or player. Tomasse must be made an example of how stupidity and arrogance take over. That is like saying that a high ranking government official uses drugs the day before the elections. He has no time for evidentiary procedure or due diligence to take place to exonerate him. The stink was placed on the carcass before the carcass had died. And what this did was give the Pats a unwarranted dark cloud before one of the biggest sporting events in the world with absolutely no substance. They will tell you it made no difference, but it was just enough perhaps that could have affected just even one play or the mental state of the coach or players. Say, you don't think the Giants enlisted help? If this gets to be a book, I want props.
DW Toys

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Can we just put a sock in it about a lawsuit?

Think a minute before posting wish fullfillment fantasies, people. Kraft owns a business. He is NOT going to 'wrestle the pig in the mud' by suing the Herald or anyone else over this. It is in his and the team's best interests to move along, especially given the NFL owners and comissioner's belated support' such as it is. Why damage your brand by indulging in a lawsuit that only fans the editorial flames of sports 'journalists' and media outlets (e.g. ESPN) who have proven time and again that they don't let facts shape their opinions? It should also be clear to unbiased observers that Kraft would have a very very difficult time proving malicious intent and assigning a defensible figure to his damages. Whining about reduced merchandise sales is not going to get a lot of sympathy to an audience faced with a 40% ticket price increase.

The few sane voices here have pointed out that simply continuing to win and behind the scenes payback moves will be the Krafts' response. The Herald is already damaged by its editors' egregious error in judgement.

Stop the fantasizing. Dream of your making it with Brady's GF; it's more likely.

 

[vandergraafgenerator]

They could rename it the Patriot-Herald. That would be pretty cool to have the Pats on the front page every day, especially during baseball season.

Jeez is Baseball a boring game, I watched(or tried) a bit of San Diego-Houston on TV, nothing ever happens, just a guy throwing a ball at another guy who either misses it or doesn't even try to hit it. No action,no nothing.

à

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

Can we just put a sock in it about a lawsuit?

Think a minute before posting wish fullfillment fantasies, people. Kraft owns a business. He is NOT going to 'wrestle the pig in the mud' by suing the Herald or anyone else over this. It is in his and the team's best interests to move along, especially given the NFL owners and comissioner's belated support' such as it is. Why damage your brand by indulging in a lawsuit that only fans the editorial flames of sports 'journalists' and media outlets (e.g. ESPN) who have proven time and again that they don't let facts shape their opinions? It should also be clear to unbiased observers that Kraft would have a very very difficult time proving malicious intent and assigning a defensible figure to his damages. Whining about reduced merchandise sales is not going to get a lot of sympathy to an audience faced with a 40% ticket price increase.

The few sane voices here have pointed out that simply continuing to win and behind the scenes payback moves will be the Krafts' response. The Herald is already damaged by its editors' egregious error in judgement.

Stop the fantasizing. Dream of your making it with Brady's GF; it's more likely.

Well, Pissah, you're probably right that no suit will be forthcoming out of this, but this entire thread is less about a John Grisham scenario than about expressing Patriot Nation anger and indignation, mine included, over the shabby treatment the club has received since last September. While we all conject about various legal tactics and strategy that might be possible, what we really want to assure ourselves of, I suspect, is that such a scenario is indeed possible.

And while those of us doing this are obviously gobsmacked by those belittling us as armchair lawyers who want to deny us our fondest fantasies of cosmic retribution against those who we have perceived as wronging us, not even you can deny that there are a lot of people out there in both NFLland and the media who have made themselves enemies of a very powerful man.

And while it's also likely Bob Kraft wants to keep things on an even keel, as others have pointed out, son Jonathan has no such compunction about (eventually) evening the score.

It's one thing to receive a tremendous beating in public, absorbing not just the punishment, but the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune that follow, and quite another to forget about it. That just does not jibe with reality. Real life doesn't work that way.

After a time, that which we know as "Spygate" (or whatever nomenclature you want to attach to it) will pass and fade from the scene, but affronts to powerful men remain, like painful burrs stuck in one's side, that will fester until there is resolution, until that burr is removed, whether it be done on a private and personal level or through some other venue and mechanism.

That's the way history has resolved these dramas, and I don't think that will change simply because it's football that's involved.

 

[flasox27]

I would say that whether is a lawsuit would greatly depend on whether or not they could win it. If Kraft thinks it is winnable then I would say he would go ahead for reputation's sake. I don't think he is worried about any revelation's from Walsh.
At the least I would expect the termination of Tomase and an opology from the Herald concerning the story if they ever want to cover the Pats. As for ESPN, they are dead in Foxboro.
Above and beyond that I expect some retribution behind the scenes where Kraft really has power.

 

[BTTA]

I understand all the legal wrangling, but in the end it's a pretty simple case - Prove your liabous article to be true.

You can't be sued simply for publishing untrue information. Nor is a publisher required to prove that what they publish is true.

 

[Wildo7]

You can't really be that obtuse as to not know why Kraft hadn't filed suit yet, can you? Let me explain it. Kraft has to wait until the league got somewhere with Walsh. If Walsh DID have something, then there wouldn't be any grounds for the lawsuit. Since its looking more and more like Walsh has nothing, then what the Herald did was libel and Kraft CAN go after them for impugning the integrity of the Patriots organization.

While newspapers and journalists aren't required to reveal their sources, they need to check the integrity of them. As Dan Rather learned the hard way.

Wow. Way to read what I wrote in the comment before that on the first page:

Can I ask what they would sue the herald for? While I deplore Tomase and the like I don't think they libeled anybody, certainly not in a way that could recover damages in court. Writing about "rumors of a taped walkthrough" isn't saying there is a tape out there. It's saying that there are rumors, which was true, even if the rumors were bullshyte, which they were.

If they were going to sue they would have already. If they sue now what is their reason for waiting? Did they want to wait and see if the allegations were true? That doesn't look very good.

I'd be willing to bet anyone here that the Herald will not be sued.

So by your logic, the Pats were waiting to see if Walsh had something, which means they weren't sure if he did or not, which would look bad. What was that about obtuse?

 

[arrellbee]

Can we just put a sock in it about a lawsuit?

Think a minute before posting wish fullfillment fantasies, people. Kraft owns a business. He is NOT going to 'wrestle the pig in the mud' by suing the Herald or anyone else over this. It is in his and the team's best interests to move along, especially given the NFL owners and comissioner's belated support' such as it is. Why damage your brand by indulging in a lawsuit that only fans the editorial flames of sports 'journalists' and media outlets (e.g. ESPN) who have proven time and again that they don't let facts shape their opinions? It should also be clear to unbiased observers that Kraft would have a very very difficult time proving malicious intent and assigning a defensible figure to his damages. Whining about reduced merchandise sales is not going to get a lot of sympathy to an audience faced with a 40% ticket price increase.

The few sane voices here have pointed out that simply continuing to win and behind the scenes payback moves will be the Krafts' response. The Herald is already damaged by its editors' egregious error in judgement.

Stop the fantasizing. Dream of your making it with Brady's GF; it's more likely.

yes ''''''

 

[Wildo7]

You can't just go blaming it on the source. It's Tomase and the paper's job to ensure their sources are accurate.

I'M not blaming it on the source. Just because I don't think they can sue for Libel does not mean I like the Herald. It's just the opposite. But it's what the Herald says in court (which will never happen) that matters.

And again, if the Pats were waiting to see if what Walsh had before they were going to sue, that means that they weren't sure that they were innocent because they thought there was a possibility that Walsh actually had something on them.

The Pats were never planning to sue the Herald and never will IMHO.

 

[Wildo7]

The Patriots could certainly sue based on the fact that Tomase did not meet the general minimum for journalistic standards. Several things he did wrong that could come back to haunt him.

First, he did not independently verify his source. Journalistic standards require that to run a story is that you should be able to verify any source with two independent source. It was clear that Tomase rushed the story and did not appear to have independently verify.

Second, Tomase never got the Patriots to response to the charges. It is standard journalistic practices to at least an effort from the accused for a response. That is why you always see "xxxx did not return our calls" type of language in articles. It is a way to protect themselves from libel. Tomase did not have that in his piece so it is assumed he did not get try to get the Patriots' response to the charges. He could lose his case right there because of it.

Kraft certainly has a case that Tomase was reckless in this case and he did not follow the minimum guidelines of proper journalism when he wrote and published the piece. The one thing going for Tomase and the Herald is that the source said that he/she did not know whether the Patriots, Belichick, or anyone else authorized the taping, saw the tape itself, or even had knowledge of the taping being done at all. That might be enough wiggle room to get out of a huge judgement against him.

In my opinion, I think Kraft has a good case against Tomase and the Herald. I am no expert, but I do have a journalism background (well, I was a journalism major in college). Whether Kraft actually sues is another story.

There's a world of difference between sloppy journalism and Libel. Sloppy journalism is not against the law and Libel is very difficult to prove.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

I'M not blaming it on the source. Just because I don't think they can sue for Libel does not mean I like the Herald.

Some of us are with you, even though we're not posting (or at least haven't until now).

This is not a difficult case. Herald attributed to a source. If what you're doing is reporting what a source says with respect to a public figure or a matter of public concern, you have no duty to investigate your source. In fact, you can be "willfuly blind" about the veracity of your source. You have to be in reckless disregard of the truth. There is no reckless disregard here, or at least NONE of the points in this too-long thread have suggested anything that would constitute reckless disregard.

It's ok to be pis*ed at the Herald. Enough with the lawsuit crap. There's only one question (ok, well two). 1) Did they have a source who said what they said he said? If yes, game over, unless, 2) They had actual knowledge the source was wrong.

This is black letter first amendment law. Everyone says they hate lawyers. Why does everyone try to be like us if you hate us so much?

 

[PatriotsReign]

But unfortunately, the "according to one source" is a key phrase, as the Herald could claim they were lied to and that wouldn't be libel unfortunately. There's also a fairly large precedent set that allows journalists to protect their sources, so they would never be forced to reveal the source. Not to mention that if they were going to sue them why wouldn't they have already?

Wildo buddy, just an FYI...the fact that the Patriots were or may have been waiting to see what Walsh had looks very, very good. It would be the right thing to do if they planned on suing the Herald. Obviously, no one on the Patriots staff knew if Walsh had filmed something on his own or had possibly purchased a video of the Rams walk-through from someone on the Rams staff.

If you said you had some damaging information about me and that you would go public with it, of course I'd wait to see what you had before I sued you. And if you had nothing, God help you brother!

 

[flasox27]

As I said before Kraft has some very good attorneys who will advise him as to the winnability of his case and he will act accordingly. As for the Herald, it is a joke of a newspaper now and that won't change but the fact that they will be persona non grata in Foxboro may impact their sports section. The big loser is Tomase who is finished in New England as a reporter.

 

[PatriotsReign]

I'M not blaming it on the source. Just because I don't think they can sue for Libel does not mean I like the Herald. It's just the opposite. But it's what the Herald says in court (which will never happen) that matters.

And again, if the Pats were waiting to see if what Walsh had before they were going to sue, that means that they weren't sure that they were innocent because they thought there was a possibility that Walsh actually had something on them.

The Pats were never planning to sue the Herald and never will IMHO.

Honestly, I think what the Patriots should do is release some false information to Tomasse sometime next year that would embaress the hell out of him and the Herald. Everyone on the Patriots should just lie their butts off all year to any reporter from the Herald...how's that sound?

 

[Wildo7]

Honestly, I think what the Patriots should do is release some false information to Tomasse sometime next year that would embaress the hell out of him and the Herald. Everyone on the Patriots should just lie their butts off all year to any reporter from the Herald...how's that sound?

Now that sounds like a plan. Honestly, the best way to hurt them is to get their readership down. That means cutting them off completely, which it looks like they've already done, and getting people not to subscribe.

 

[Wildo7]

Wildo buddy, just an FYI...the fact that the Patriots were or may have been waiting to see what Walsh had looks very, very good. It would be the right thing to do if they planned on suing the Herald. Obviously, no one on the Patriots staff knew if Walsh had filmed something on his own or had possibly purchased a video of the Rams walk-through from someone on the Rams staff.

If you said you had some damaging information about me and that you would go public with it, of course I'd wait to see what you had before I sued you. And if you had nothing, God help you brother!

So then it doesn't matter whether WALSH has the tape or not, if a SOURCE tells the Herald he does then the statement "One source said that Walsh has a tape of the Rams pre-Superbowl walkthrough" would be true, because a source did say that.

 

[PatriotsReign]

So then it doesn't matter whether WALSH has the tape or not, if a SOURCE tells the Herald he does then the statement "One source said that Walsh has a tape of the Rams pre-Superbowl walkthrough" would be true, because a source did say that.

Yes, but newspapers can't just go printing everything and anything they please without some verification or validation. That is irresponsible journalism and reckless behavior. I'm not a lawyer, but I do believe that they could be held responsible for libel. Otherwise, you wouldn't see "the Patriots may be considering pursuing legal action...." being stated by so many journalists.