San Diego #2 pick, don't forget about it

[fester]

That's gonna be hard to do although teams do weird things on draft day - if we're going to get a #1 either this year or next it's more likely to be with Cassel moving on even if we have to add another pick. Like Cassel and this #2 for Detroit or St. Louis' #1 in 2010. Generally QB are what get #1s and this is a weak group of QB in the draft unless they all come out - and even then it's so-so.

I really am not getting your argument. Normally there is a discount rate of 1 round per year deferred (the big exception is the Patriots in 2007 going 1st round for 1st round '08 and 3rd round for 3rd round '08 plus spare change) so your proposed trade would have the Pats give up the presumable franchise rights for Cassel and a 2009 2nd rounder and a single 2010 1st rounder. Basically your trade is throwing in Cassel's franchise rights as the spare change in the deal. If he continues to develop and play the way he has been playing, I don't think that is likely.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

You folks forget some things:
(1) Moronic GMs get impressed by the 'potential upside' of unproven big name college QBs
(2) Cassel was not a creature of their making therefore less kudos to the GM
(3) And most importantly, Cassel may be viewed as the penultimate System QB, a product of the excellent Patriots system, not easily replicated elsewhere. Were Castle to fail or be mediocre in the new environment, it will reflect badly on the organization. Not good for careers.

These factors may prove sobering to some potential bidders.

 

[VJCPatriot]

You folks forget some things:
(1) Moronic GMs get impressed by the 'potential upside' of unproven big name college QBs
(2) Cassel was not a creature of their making therefore less kudos to the GM
(3) And most importantly, Cassel may be viewed as the penultimate System QB, a product of the excellent Patriots system, not easily replicated elsewhere. Were Castle to fail or be mediocre in the new environment, it will reflect badly on the organization. Not good for careers.

These factors may prove sobering to some potential bidders.

You gotta be kidding me with this system QB argument. "System QBs" don't throw back to back 400 yard games with 3 TDs apiece. Come back and talk after you've watched the games.

Who has a more impressive resume right now - Cassel or Schaub? What did Schaub fetch in trade - answer 2 2nd round picks.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

1,2,2,3,3 sounds very good. However, I see the Pats going at least to the AFCC this year and picking #29 thru 32. So in that case, we'd be talking about #30, approx #44, #62, #94, and approx #100. Great but nothing in the top half of round 1.

Just a reminder: draft seeding doesn't work that way. Except for the SB participants, it's record order first (e.g., even if a team that goes 9-7 makes it to the AFCCG (and loses), they still pick ahead of every team that finished 10-6 or better, even if those teams missed the playoffs).

 

[BelichickFan]

I really am not getting your argument. Normally there is a discount rate of 1 round per year deferred (the big exception is the Patriots in 2007 going 1st round for 1st round '08 and 3rd round for 3rd round '08 plus spare change) so your proposed trade would have the Pats give up the presumable franchise rights for Cassel and a 2009 2nd rounder and a single 2010 1st rounder. Basically your trade is throwing in Cassel's franchise rights as the spare change in the deal. If he continues to develop and play the way he has been playing, I don't think that is likely.

You're right, depending on the team. I have my sights on a potential stud pick, for example Cassel to Detroit or St. Louis which could be a top five, or certainly top ten, pick in 2010. Although you can make an argument for them doing that for Cassel, we would be hard pressed to get that done and, hence, I'm willing to add to it. However, yes, if we were to trade the #2 to an Indy or a Pittsburgh, teams that expect to have a low #1 next year then the #2 straight up would suffice if there's a player there they want.

But I'm greedy and I want to do it with a team that could get us another Mayo type pick.

 

[patsgo]

You're right, depending on the team. I have my sights on a potential stud pick, for example Cassel to Detroit or St. Louis which could be a top five, or certainly top ten, pick in 2010. Although you can make an argument for them doing that for Cassel, we would be hard pressed to get that done and, hence, I'm willing to add to it. However, yes, if we were to trade the #2 to an Indy or a Pittsburgh, teams that expect to have a low #1 next year then the #2 straight up would suffice if there's a player there they want.

But I'm greedy and I want to do it with a team that could get us another Mayo type pick.

its funny belichick fan after reading riess and listening to peter king both come to the same conclusion i do, a 3rd round comp pick is what well probably get, i guess they are both ignorant to huh??

 

[BelichickFan]

its funny belichick fan after reading riess and listening to peter king both come to the same conclusion i do, a 3rd round comp pick is what well probably get, i guess they are both ignorant to huh??

I'm not interested in arguing with you, you aren't worth it.

 

[patsgo]

I'm not interested in arguing with you, you aren't worth it.

all i remember is you writing post after post welker wasnt worh a 2nd rounder, then when they threw the 7th in you really went wacko, how did that work out??? this has a very similair feeling your track record isnt all that great

 

[BelichickFan]

all i remember is you writing post after post welker wasnt worh a 2nd rounder, then when they threw the 7th in you really went wacko, how did that work out??? this has a very similair feeling your track record isnt all that great

I was wrong on Welker.

However I was one of the leading advocates of "49ers pick we got will be high" as you can see here :

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/55758-im-worried-about-49ers.html (although I was wrong about St. Louis in that thread but I still think they could have been alright that year but were decimated by injuries).

I still say the Patriots won't give Cassel up for nothing (which is what the comp pick could be if we go out signing UFA) if he continues to play at a high level.

 

[PatDaPatriot]

You gotta be kidding me with this system QB argument. "System QBs" don't throw back to back 400 yard games with 3 TDs apiece. Come back and talk after you've watched the games.

Who has a more impressive resume right now - Cassel or Schaub? What did Schaub fetch in trade - answer 2 2nd round picks.

Plus a swap of first rounders...

 

[MoLewisrocks]

its funny belichick fan after reading riess and listening to peter king both come to the same conclusion i do, a 3rd round comp pick is what well probably get, i guess they are both ignorant to huh??

Reiss had him cut in Training Camp over Gutierrez... King had Light suspended and Brady out of the top 5 QB salary averages this week alone... All listening to talking head mediots makes you is even lesser informed... Look at things like actual precedent, previous track record, human nature...

 

[BelichickFan]

Reiss had him cut in Training Camp over Gutierrez... King had Light suspended and Brady out of the top 5 QB salary averages this week alone... All listening to talking head mediots makes you is even lesser informed... Look at things like actual precedent, previous track record, human nature...

I think some of the media are a little scared of the Patriots being able to look great again. If Jim Sorgi were doing this they'd love to ball wash Dungy, Polian and the brilliant, lovable Colt organization. But not the cold, dastardly, hateable Patriots. Well, sorry, but it is the Patriots and Cassel who are looking good. How Cassel looks against Pittsburgh will be a big key.

 

[scout]

I think some of the media are a little scared of the Patriots being able to look great again. If Jim Sorgi were doing this they'd love to ball wash Dungy, Polian and the brilliant, lovable Colt organization. But not the cold, dastardly, hateable Patriots. Well, sorry, but it is the Patriots and Cassel who are looking good. How Cassel looks against Pittsburgh will be a big key.

I do not look forward to the Cassel threads after the Pittsburgh game whether its a good or bad game. Your right on in regards to the Sorgi scenario.
Have got to feel good about the upcoming draft as we will be loaded in the early rounds. If we could come out of the draft with a starter on defense (not by default), a key contributor, one special teamer, and a respectable trade-up in next year's draft I'd be satisfied. Two starters on defense and I'd be ecstatic.

 

[BelichickFan]

I do not look forward to the Cassel threads after the Pittsburgh game whether its a good or bad game. Your right on in regards to the Sorgi scenario.
Have got to feel good about the upcoming draft as we will be loaded in the early rounds. If we could come out of the draft with a starter on defense (not by default), a key contributor, one special teamer, and a respectable trade-up in next year's draft I'd be satisfied. Two starters on defense and I'd be ecstatic.

It is nice that we're loaded up well for this draft even if Cassel leaves for nothing. Regarding Cassel, if he's mediocre to bad against a good defense then all bets are off. But if he's good, say 16-24-230, 1 TD, 1 INT, then the idea of letting him go for a possible comp pick gets sillier.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

You gotta be kidding me with this system QB argument. "System QBs" don't throw back to back 400 yard games with 3 TDs apiece. Come back and talk after you've watched the games.

Who has a more impressive resume right now - Cassel or Schaub? What did Schaub fetch in trade - answer 2 2nd round picks.

Plus a swap of first rounders...

All I can say is WOW! I remember when that trade went down and I argued with my friend on how stupid that move was for the Texans. Not only did they give up two second round picks and swap 1st round picks, but signed Schaub to a 40 million dollar deal plus a huge bonus. Schaub didn't do anything to warrant that type of trade and contract from the Texans. For example, Romo signed a similar deal and led the Cowboys to the playoffs. What did Schaub do? If GM's get off on a backup QB's preseason and a couple games that he started (one against New England in '05) leads me to believe that New England will get something out of Matt Cassel if indeed they franshise him. Cassel blows Schaub away in ever catagory. Plenty of teams will be calling for Matt Cassel.

 

[Pats726]

Reiss had him cut in Training Camp over Gutierrez... King had Light suspended and Brady out of the top 5 QB salary averages this week alone... All listening to talking head mediots makes you is even lesser informed... Look at things like actual precedent, previous track record, human nature...

I hope you are not tossing Reiss in with the mediots..His putting Gutierrez ahead of Cassel was only what he thought they would do..HARDLY anything close to idiotic..HIS opinion..and he was wrong...and Did you not read all the Cssel sucks threads in preseason? How many thought Cassel would make the team..let alone play like he has? If I had a dollar for all the posts about how bad Vassel was I'd be rich.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

we need to make the playoffs, that's the bottom line.

draft picks are great but these are playoff years, it's not like we're rebuilding and hoping to get into the playoffs.

 

[Pats726]

we need to make the playoffs, that's the bottom line.

draft picks are great but these are playoff years, it's not like we're rebuilding and hoping to get into the playoffs.

I thought the thread was about SD and getting THEIR pick.??

 

[BelichickFan]

I thought the thread was about SD and getting THEIR pick.??

Right, this has nothing to do with the Patriots' season - I'm not talking about our own #1 moving up if we lose. This pick and the Patriots' season are independent.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

I thought the thread was about SD and getting THEIR pick.??

it is. picks are all great, but playoffs are better