Run Defense - Shades of 2005

[Water Boy]

Excuse me, did I write that?

I assumed that was your position.

What is your position then, that the run defense will be adequate?

 

[patsox23]

Ok. I'll relax and take your word for it. Our run defense is going to be awesome.

Dude, relax. This does not have to be contentious and it doesn't have to be this feast or famine thing.

Did the Patriots run D look horrible vs, the Giants? Yes.

Did they have a lot of starters in? Their usual array of defensive schemes at work? No and No.

Is there room for improvement? Sure.

Are they AWESOME against the run? Probably not.

Did the Patriots - in the two most reliably telling games of pre-season, games 2 and 3 - look very good against the run? Absolutely.

Does that prove anything? Of course not.

Is it "shades of 2005?" No. Not even close.

Let's maintain some semblance of balance here, and stipulate that the Pats run D lies somewhere between 2005 and - wait a second. 2005? Was our run D bad in 2005? Do you mean 2002?

In any case, you clearly seem to think that the game 4 performance means a lot. I disagee.

 

[RayClay]

I guess i just don't get it. Teams could not move the ball on the ground against the Pats in the last 8 games of the year. Even Shanahan couldn't get a running game going against them.

We lost Willie McGinest.

Bruschi will be back.

Why is this a worry again?

The first six games last year we had McGinest. Bruschi was out, like he is now. If you were happy with that great.

Actually our line is great. But we only have 2 inside linebackers. One of them is borrowed from the OLB, except there's no McGinest to cover.

 

[RayClay]

Dude, relax. This does not have to be contentious and it doesn't have to be this feast or famine thing.

Did the Patriots run D look horrible vs, the Giants? Yes.

Did they have a lot of starters in? Their usual array of defensive schemes at work? No and No.

Is there room for improvement? Sure.

Are they AWESOME against the run? Probably not.

Did the Patriots - in the two most reliably telling games of pre-season, games 2 and 3 - look very good against the run? Absolutely.

Does that prove anything? Of course not.

Is it "shades of 2005?" No. Not even close.

Let's maintain some semblance of balance here, and stipulate that the Pats run D lies somewhere between 2005 and - wait a second. 2005? Was our run D bad in 2005? Do you mean 2002?

In any case, you clearly seem to think that the game 4 performance means a lot. I disagee.

Our line is outstanding. In our offense, they don't make tackles they funnel them to the linebackers.

We need some more linebackers is all.

 

[RayClay]

Am I missing something or did they just have 3 practices for this game? How long did the starters play? Last game of pre-season?

C'mon, Kurt.

Who are the backups at ILB?

 

[pats1]

spacecrime must be on vacation...in his honor:

We're Dooooooooooooooooooooooooomed!

Uh, I do believe I usually do the honors, Box.

WE'RE DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!


But seriously, you've got to be kidding me Kurt. You're looking at a play from the FOURTH PRESEASON game and trying to use it as a measuring stick against last year's run defense? Insane!

 

[RayClay]

Uh, I do believe I usually do the honors, Box.

WE'RE DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!


But seriously, you've got to be kidding me Kurt. You're looking at a play from the FOURTH PRESEASON game and trying to use it as a measuring stick against last year's run defense? Insane!

Seriously, Pats 1, I don't think the run defense will suck because our line is awesome.

BUT people are talking about our 2nd and third string linebackers. Who are these people.

At ILB, (most responsible for stopping the run) We have only Seau and Vrabel, (which depletes our OLB), There's not even a third guy to rotate besides Alexander.

We've got 2 225 Lb. special teams players.

You can use you're dooooomed graphic all you want. Our only depth at ILB got carried off on a stretcher.

Who stops the run if Seau is injured?

 

[RayClay]

I guess when you don't have a good answer, comic antics are the substitute.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

I thought gap control from the linemen was decent, and it seemed that some of the linebackers didn't fill the hole. I don't want to pick on Seau becuase he's new and rusty, hopefully a week of practice will get the bugs fixed.

 

[Water Boy]

Dude, relax. This does not have to be contentious and it doesn't have to be this feast or famine thing.

I'm not trying to make this contentious. I am very willing to accept that I may be overreacting. What I was getting at in my original post was that when the Patriots run defense struggled in the first half of 2005 it appeared that they were very susceptible to quick dive type running plays up the middle where the running back hit the hole before the D linemen could recognize and react to which gap the play was going. This is what I observed to be happening in the Giants game (including when many of our starters were in), and this is a way that I would assume teams would scheme offensively against a 3-4, rather than slower developing running plays (counters etc.) that give the D-line more of an opportunity to recongnize and react.

The adjustments that Wilfork made, the return of Bruschi and the conversion of Vrabel to ILB solved our issues with the run defense in the second half of 2005. If Wilfork, Warren, Seymour, Bruschi, Vrabel and/or Seau stay healthy all season, I won't be worrying about our run defense, but we all know that the likelihood of that is slim.

I'm not expecting our back ups to look like world beaters, in game 4 of the preaseason, but I don't think its outrageous to have a concern following that game. The Pats run defense looked pretty bad against Atlanta too. The Pats run defense looked good against Arizona and Washington, but who's to say that either of these team's running games are any good?

We'll just have to wait and see what the regular season brings.

 

[Water Boy]

But seriously, you've got to be kidding me Kurt. You're looking at a play from the FOURTH PRESEASON game and trying to use it as a measuring stick against last year's run defense? Insane!

Who says I am looking as a single play as a measuring stick against last year's defense?

 

[pats1]

I'm not trying to make this contentious. I am very willing to accept that I may be overreacting. What I was getting at in my original post was that when the Patriots run defense struggled in the first half of 2005 it appeared that they were very susceptible to quick dive type running plays up the middle where the running back hit the hole before the D linemen could recognize and react to which gap the play was going. This is what I observed to be happening in the Giants game (including when many of our starters were in), and this is a way that I would assume teams would scheme offensively against a 3-4, rather than slower developing running plays (counters etc.) that give the D-line more of an opportunity to recongnize and react.

The adjustments that Wilfork made, the return of Bruschi and the conversion of Vrabel to ILB solved our issues with the run defense in the second half of 2005. If Wilfork, Warren, Seymour, Bruschi, Vrabel and/or Seau stay healthy all season, I won't be worrying about our run defense, but we all know that the likelihood of that is slim.

I'm not expecting our back ups to look like world beaters, in game 4 of the preaseason, but I don't think its outrageous to have a concern following that game. The Pats run defense looked pretty bad against Atlanta too. The Pats run defense looked good against Arizona and Washington, but who's to say that either of these team's running games are any good?

We'll just have to wait and see what the regular season brings.

I could care less about what happened in the preseason. I've already forgotten about everything that happened. Half of the players in those games are now without jobs.

Simply put, You can't use the preseason as a measuring stick to ANYTHING except why or why not a player got cut/didn't.

Please wait until Thursday night to start evaluating ANY performance of ANY team.

 

[Water Boy]

You can use you're dooooomed graphic all you want. Our only depth at ILB got carried off on a stretcher.

Who stops the run if Seau is injured?

Careful RayClay, just go along with the program or you'll be rebuffed with a We're doooomed in a large font.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Careful RayClay, just go along with the program or you'll be rebuffed with a We're doooomed in a large font.

We're Saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaved!

Feel safer? If not, please list what you would do differently to improve our run defense? Honestly.

 

[RayClay]

We're Saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaved!

Feel safer? If not, please list what you would do differently to improve our run defense? Honestly.

Get another Inside linebacker. Or two LBs.

Seriously, we're better with Seau and Vrabel than Beisel and Brown last year.

Nevertheless, this is already sapping our OLB strength.

And you know what we'd be if we had an injury.

I don't want to say it but it begins with D has 23 O's and ends with med.:bricks:

 

[RayClay]

Careful RayClay, just go along with the program or you'll be rebuffed with a We're doooomed in a large font.

That's all right. Before Seau, some people were arguing with me that we were set at linebacker.

Can you imagine us without Seau now.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Get another Inside linebacker. Or two LBs.

Seriously, we're better with Seau and Vrabel than Beisel and Brown last year.

Nevertheless, this is already sapping our OLB strength.

And you know what we'd be if we had an injury.

I don't want to say it but it begins with D has 23 O's and ends with med.:bricks:

Okay, which ILBs are available, who do we cut to sign them, and how much compensation do we need to pay with their current club?

 

[shmessy]

Look folks, no one is saying our LB corps AS IT EXISTS 8 DAYS BEFORE THE FIRST GAME is perfect. Someone, however is assuming there won't be any more roster moves before the season. No one informed me of this enforced freeze by the league.

Let the damn ice solidify before you go skating on the lake.

In the meantime, IF there aren't any more roster moves in the next 8 days (and forget THAT), we can say that the DL is better and deeper than last year's and the secondary is better and deeper than last year's. 2 out of 3 D units stronger and one weaker is something I won't panic about.

Add to that, we have an offense thast is more time of possession oriented than last year's and imagine how that could help our D.

There are several positives here and one current negative compared to last year. Have some perspective.

 

[patsox23]

In all seriousness, taking a good long look at ex-Raider Danny Clark would make me happy. He played ILB for Ryan in Oakland (the BB system), did a pretty solid job, good tackler, a TJ run-stuffing type, and plays S/T's. I think he'd be an improvement, especially with at least some knowledge of the system.

 

[shmessy]

Okay, which ILBs are available, who do we cut to sign them, and how much compensation do we need to pay with their current club?

Don't forget the possibility of a trade. We DO have a rather well-known WR to dangle.