Rodney Harrison ripping

[RIpats88]

I think it's more poor execution/lack of aggressiveness...the defense looked unprepared last game...but thats on the Coach Bilichick to motivate his defense to play better.

in the last game, tony romo threw 300+yards on us, but the defense played aggressive, tackled well and didnt give up too many big plays...THATS how this break/dont bend defense needs to play

but like I said, im not ready to jump off the building until we see the Giants game

 

[cstjohn17]

Judge agrees with Rodney, rip him if you want but I tend to agree.

Unless Brady plays out of his head in the playoffs the Patriots don't have a shot.

Patriots won't go very far with highly suspect defense - NFL - CBSSports.com Football

 

[condon84]

We need another defensive mind in here to help Belichick. We had Romeo and Mangini in those years helping BB scheme things up. Ever since those guys left, it seems our creativity has also left in defense. BB needs someone to challenge him mentally it seems.

 

[LetsGoPats36]

I agree with Rodney, but watching our DBs play a soft zone 10 yards off their receiver isn't some new development.


Besides the changing faces, this defense has looked basically the same since 2005.

 

[SVN]

I love rodney and he is probsbly right but it is easy for anyone to get mad and say they shouldve done this and that and how it was done in those days. To say "he needs to be motivated and pushed" and "they have enough to work with" etc are the easiest things to comment on. Sorry.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

If you were talking about the secondary, I'd agree. I'd like to see more man mixed in with zone, even with the horrible results it yielded earlier in the season. But instead, it sounds like you're talking about the entire defense. In that case, that's just untrue. We've been among the more blitz happy defenses in the NFL this year. The thing is that we're just not getting there, even against porous offensive lines, which is a reflection of the personnel and talent on the team. Perhaps it's time to stop looking at re-treads and JAGs and start looking at studs in the draft and through free agency? Perhaps it's time to stop cutting our best players and stalwarts for no apparent reason whatsoever. LaMarr Woodley was available, and would have looked a hell of a lot better on this team than Chad Ochocinco has.

The prob kontra is we don't have a lot of speed up front. In order to get speed you have to sacrifice a little on the size requirement. BB seems to stay away from the "tweeners" but those are the guys getting you the speed your looking for on the edge to create chaos up front.

If we really are going away from the 3-4 as a base than we need to evaluate some of these smaller guys who normally wouldn't have gotten a second look. The run D may suffer but thats why you have guys like mayo and wilfork to help alleviate that. We can't keep drafting 6'4 270 and wondering why we aren't seeing quick pressure. We are drafting on the basis of setting the edge 1st and pass rush ability second. Those quick twitch pressure guys are almost always tweeners or were when coming out initially. Maybe we should try developing some of these gifted pass rushers into better run defenders instead of the other way around.

 

[Deus Irae]

Actually he is an apparent kool aid drinking homer since he didn't advocate that BB should be relinquished of GM duities and be forced to bring on a D coordinator. Damn homer.

Actually, since it's the homers who've spent years labeling everyone who finds anything Patriots related to less than perfect, he's a hater. Nice try on the flip, but it just doesn't work when you're trying to shoehorn a one week reaction into a multiple year context.

 

[Wilfork#75]

I completely agree with Rodney on this. The coaches have no confidence in the secondary and they are playing scared. This is what I wrote earlier in another thread.

I just re-watched the game and I didn't really see anything to panic about. I think the biggest issue with the defence, especially in the first half was the play calling, which I think was brought about by a lack of confidence in the secondary. This defence is built around disguise, and in the first half in particular there was none. When we showed blitz, we blitzed and Ben just dumped it off to Miller over the middle. When you blitz that many in zone coverage there is always going to be big holes in the zone, so it needs to be disguised. In the second half I think they did a better job of this, with the LB's showing blitz then dropping into zones which was much more effective. However this showed the other problem with the defence, the safety play.

I don't think BB has any confidence in our safeties at the moment, which is having an effect on our scheme. I think because BB is so worried about getting beat deep he had the corners play and even softer zone than usual, meaning the Steelers could take 4-7 yards whenever they wanted on a short comeback. It also meant our LB's were dropping deeper than usual allowing Ben to dump it off short to a RB or TE for a short gain. While this cuts off the big plays, for a patient offence like the Steelers were, it just mean they slowly worked their way down the field. This also kept Brady off the field and lead to the lopsided T.O.P.

While the defence has some obvious deficiencies (safety play, LB'er coverage) I think the key to this defence improving is BB gaining more confidence in the defence as a whole. We won't play Mike Wallace every week so I think the corners will play tighter in the future. But if we get beat deep, thats football, if we play scared we will lose.

I trust BB will get us back on track and I expect the defence to step up bigtime next week. I think there are three ways to fix the problems this defence has.

1. They could trust that they can get to the QB with only 4 guys and continue to play a very soft zone. Possible, they looked o.k. against the Steelers only rushing 4.

2. They could go back to press man coverage. Unlikely, they tried that earlier this year and I don't think currently have the personel for that.

3. They go back to what BB built 3 Superbowls on- Disguise. This is what I'm betting on and this is what I think will be the most effective. Trust who you have and go with what you know. We may not have the personel to have an elite defence but we have the mastermind to create one, or at least the appearance of one.

 

[RIpats88]

the thing is, as bad as our defense was that game, it still comes down to two plays....3rd and 15 and 3rd and 12...if we can stop them there, thats 2 extra posessions for the offense where possibly they couldve scored and made it a game..

this defense will never become an elite pass defense...but, they're still a good red-zone defense that gets stops/limits the opposing offense to 3 instead of 7...which is why ppg scored by the steelers was lower than it shouldve been..and they can become serviceable if they can improve on two things:

1. 3rd downs-when youve got 3rd and long, you HAVE to get them off the field..this is something coaches need to work out. coverage issues/tackling is stuff that can be coached.

2.limit the big plays--when you look at tony romos stats from the cowboys game, he had 300yards....but the difference is in how he got those yards vs. roethlisberger. the pats defense made him work for those yards on short gains until he made a mistake. the pats defense cant let QB's just pass deep down the field.

this defense is going to give up yards, but you can cover up deficiencies by being strong in other areas.

thats up to the coaching though to see if BB can get them to improve in those areas

 

[hlywoodjp]

It must be very hard for this offense to improve in practice against this defense. I imagine that the stuff they run works fantastically against a group of DB's that can't play man and safeties that don't have a clue where they are going.

 

[stcjones]

You realize that Rodney said nothing about BB relinquishing D coordinator duties?

Yeah....I started my opinion on the topic after saying I agreed with RH in the article. If I was going to quote him from article would have used " " marks. Anyways, I think that our defense was at its best when we had a designated DC.....Crennel was great....is he available?

 

[PATSNUTme]

Rodney does make sense and Ty Law has been saying the same thing when it comes to Devin. Let him play physical and if he get burned, he gets burned. Better than death by a thousand cuts.

I was very critical Sunday on the onside kick. BB said on WPEI Monday that they saw somethng in the Steelers line up and had practiced that all week to perfection. The Ghost just missed the kick. As DeOssie said, it's like topping a ball with your pitching wedge, I can relate to that.

I still question doing that but having heard what BB said, it's easier to accept.

 

[ensoul]

Judge agrees with Rodney, rip him if you want but I tend to agree.

Unless Brady plays out of his head in the playoffs the Patriots don't have a shot.

Patriots won't go very far with highly suspect defense - NFL - CBSSports.com Football

Interesting part here.

"I mean, tell me the last time the NFL's 32nd-ranked defense made it to the Super Bowl. It hasn't happened. The worst Super Bowl defense was the 2009 New Orleans Saints, and they checked in at 25th."

Sums up the pats chances if the stay the course. Teams that give up 300+ yards passing a game have almost a zero chance of wining a SB. Also having a player from your secondary leading your team in tackles is not conducive to winning.

Right now the only hope they have is if the offense can score 30+ point a game. Of course teams are going to do what the steelers did and simply keep throwing the ball which will keep Brady and Co. off the field.

 

[Patjew]

Can someone explain to me why it's better to kick it long in this situation? Every way I look at it, I see the onside as the correct call.

For one, I think the recovery rate of onside kicks is significantly less than 10%, not to mention that the Pats' success with them is basically 0. If you try and fail, the game should be over. Giving the other team the ball around mid-field when down 6, all they need is about 20 yards and they can end it with a few yards and a FG.

The best possible outcome is to kick deep, hold them back there or at least hold them to only one first down, and get the ball back with a relatively short field and some time to work with.

 

[stcjones]

For one, I think the recovery rate of onside kicks is significantly less than 10%, not to mention that the Pats' success with them is basically 0. If you try and fail, the game should be over. Giving the other team the ball around mid-field when down 6, all they need is about 20 yards and they can end it with a few yards and a FG.

The best possible outcome is to kick deep, hold them back there or at least hold them to only one first down, and get the ball back with a relatively short field and some time to work with.

Good points.....I'm sure pats did practice the onside kick all week. But, regardless, like you say the percentages don't support a favorable outcome very often. I think that the way they were playing....they were F'ed either way....

 

[goheels22002]

Interesting part here.

"I mean, tell me the last time the NFL's 32nd-ranked defense made it to the Super Bowl. It hasn't happened. The worst Super Bowl defense was the 2009 New Orleans Saints, and they checked in at 25th."

Sums up the pats chances if the stay the course. Teams that give up 300+ yards passing a game have almost a zero chance of wining a SB. Also having a player from your secondary leading your team in tackles is not conducive to winning.

Right now the only hope they have is if the offense can score 30+ point a game. Of course teams are going to do what the steelers did and simply keep throwing the ball which will keep Brady and Co. off the field.

Look at the back half of this year's schedule. This defense will move up against the poor teams they face down the stretch.

 

[Badluck]

“We played a lot of man-to-man coverage, especially when we won in ’03,” said Harrison, who played six seasons (2003-08) with the Pats. “They challenged us. I was in the box blitzing. We dared teams to throw. You weren’t going to run on us. We dared teams to throw. We had good enough cornerbacks, we felt like teams couldn’t have success. We disguised, we mixed in cover-2, we mixed in cover-4, and different cover-3s. Here, I just see a basic, plain defense. So if the offense isn’t scoring 25-30 points, you’re in trouble.”

there is our problem, we dont have good enough cbs

 

[Badluck]

Look at the back half of this year's schedule. This defense will move up against the poor teams they face down the stretch.

yea,because they really shut down the 0-7 dolphins passing attack

 

[Deus Irae]

Look at the back half of this year's schedule. This defense will move up against the poor teams they face down the stretch.

That'll just mask the problem. The same thing happened last season, where the insane play of Brady and a bunch of games against bad offensive teams made people think the offense had improved significantly, when the improvement had been much less dramatic than it seemed.

 

[mcsully]

"instinctive playmaker like Asante Samuel [stats]."

With all the money and draft picks we've used to replace Asante, it was definitely a mistake to let him go. Yea he didn't tackle that well and sometimes missed on the play.. But considering his replacements have been a lot worse... It makes me cringe thinking if we kept him and used those picks for other areas..